Lost Parking Ticket - Perry Vale CP

I recently parked at Perry Vale car park and forgot to pay (I usually use Ringo). I was pleasantly surprised when I did not receive a ticket, but unpleasantly surprised when I received a letter in the post informing me I had been served a ticket, did not pay, and could no longer benefit from paying at the reduced rate. My informal appeal was rejected because the council are not responsible “what happens to it afterwards which is beyond the councils control” (and they took photos of it on the windscreen).

• Has this happened to anyone else recently? I have read that sometimes wardens can be indirectly incentivised to remove tickets, it wasn’t a windy day… it could have been a ‘prank’ by a passerby.

• Does anyone have a recent ticket from there or similar? If so does it have any kind of wrapping or adhesive?

I’m sorry to hear about this @Beige - you strike me as the sort of person who definitely would have paid if you had known (or not forgotten in the first place).

Is there any CCTV in the car park that may have covered where you parked; though depending on how long ago this happened, I guess it may no longer be available?

But did they, at least, re-set the calender to allow you the 14 or 28 days to pay at the reduced rate?

No, thats what I was asking for - would have been a fair cop.

I don’t think there is. I checked the Lewisham website list of cameras.

Absolutely!

I’m assuming that you’ve written in to reiterate that

1. You admit to the parking offence (providing it is correctly stated on the PCN)
2. You dispute that a parking ticket was actually left on the car after the warden had gone (ie - that he/she hadn’t attached it properly or that they’d removed it afterphotographing it on the car (if indeed there is photo evidence)).
3. You will pay the reduced rate within the statutory period if they reissue you with the relevant demand.
4. If you’re not given the opportunity to pay the lower rate, you will have no option but to take the matter to the Parking Adjuducator (or whatever it is these days).

Good luck with the jobs-worths!

They won’t accept another communication - I need to go to the tribunal from here. The car park is run by NSL for Lewisham, I think they are incentivised to collect as much cash as possible and choosing to exercise their rights, rather than their sense of fairness/decency (I even pointed to record of payments made in the past). I also don’t think I will win at Tribal either, so inclined not to waste my time. I will write to MP and Lewisham Council though (to at least express my dissatisfaction at the law and the council’s choice of parking contractor).

Bummer!
They obviously bank on the fact that most people wouldn’t have the time to go to a tribunal (although I’m guessing that there’d be a written representations option) and they just rake the money in.

Oh, I meant ‘go’ as in ‘appeal to’ . You don’t actually have to go somewhere. I might end up appealing, because I find it so distasteful to give money to these people and it will at least waste a bit more of their time.

The other thing you can do is if you do win on appeal you send them a ‘Letter before court’ telling them you will be seeking compensation in court and asking for lots of pieces of information. You don’t have to even open a case, but it is costly for them to respond to.

Is it a PENALTY charge notice or a PARKING charge notice?

If it is the former, then you can go to tribunal, they have a good success rate. Whatever you do, don’t not pay as the weight of the law is behind it.

However if it is a PARKING charge notice then it is a private parking ticket and oftentimes these are complete cowboys, plus the law they use is a civil breach of contract and the Protection of Freedoms Act. You have a right of appeal to POPLA as the registered keeper, if they do not allow you to do that, you can refuse to pay and then, when they send you a debt collectors letter (which will sound very threatening but has no teeth whatsover), you ignore ignore ignore, oftentimes then it just disappears. If and when they ever actually send you a Letter before Court, then go to court. If they try to claim more than the ticket value, you can argue Abuse of process and usually they lose. Lots of people challenge these and are succesfull. Its a pain unless you turn it into a hobby :o)

See here:

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

The old “ticket flew of the window” scam is a well known one amongst parking cowboys.

this

I recently made a successful POPLA appeal after not paying because the machine was broken and I did not have a phone (POPLA would not have upheld the appeal on those grounds so the appeal I made listed several other technicalities - a lovely lady on moneysavingexpert gave me her letter from the same venue to use). Also I had one where I just ignored all the threatening letters after advice on moneysavingexpert - they seem to have dried up now.

Ha ha great work!

@Jonny_Five, @Anotherjohn, @ForestHull

I couldn’t stomach paying the fine, so I appealed to the tribunal based on the facts that:

• there is no evidence I can/could provide to prove ticket was not there when I arrived (even if I had taken a photo of the car with NO ticket on it would that be useful?)
• I paid two other PCNs promptly at the same car park in December (for a friend ).
• The photo’s of the ticket on my windscreen show that the adhesive strip is not affixed to a flat area of the windscreen and therefore " the issuing officer has not made the most effective use of the methods available to him/her for affixing the PCN to the vehicle"
• I am happy to pay the reduced rate

The tribunal service accepted it for hearing and then Lewisham chose not to contest, so I ended up paying nothing

They should pay you a fine for wasted time and aggravation!

Well done though @Beige - sticking to your principals got a better result.

Are you able to post their photo so we can see how bad the evidence against your car was (or what a great argument you found!).

Yes they should. If the industry worked this way it wouldn’t exist in it’s current form. Some of the posts i read online say I should now send them a ‘letter before court’ (re claiming for wasted time) to which they will have to get their legal team to respond. You don’t take it any further, but it costs them more money to deal with.

I honestly don’t know how strong my photo argument is, but each argument means more hassle for them.

Photo showing a ticket (received on a different occasion) has adhesive strip on top edge:

PhotoOfSampleTicket2268×4032 936 KB

Their photo showing top edge is not completely flat against a surface of my car:

PhotoOfIssuedTicket1280×720 80.9 KB

Looks dodgy to me - probably not stuck down at all so the ticket could be easily be removed without leaving a trace after the photo was taken.

In fact, is that the white adhesive residue of a previous ticket we can see on the left of the window screen?!? Looks like strong stuff.

Definitely relevant to have noticed that and stated it as a fact for the tribunal.

no, i think that is frost.