New thread formed splitting off from the Chandos thread, to continue the discussion regarding morals and ethics of opening a competing business close by an existing one.
Hope this is OK @Lin , just don’t want to overshadow the Chandos and its reopening.
And what of course hasn’t been mentioned is the impact on existing businesses - anyone know what the Mama Dough guys think about having a competitor on their doorstep?
No no, complete freedom, all parties are free to express themselves evenly. But less likely to feel even if you have a strong opinion. The same has applied to all previous replies where others have questioned the decision to sell pizza.
As for the impact on other businesses. Is that really a concern for a new business owner? Healthy competition keeps all parties on their toes. Besides, I believe the Chandos is likely to attract a different crowd.
I think it’s a concern for a small community. Aren’t we all about supporting each other? Would it be well received for example if I opened up a new sweetie shop a few doors down from Sugar Mountain?
I’m new to this and it was a long thread so hadn’t seen done deal and no chance to rethink. As I said, Nancy’s courteous response was appreciated - thanks Nancy (and for that reason I will perhaps give it a go)
There’s an interesting discussion to be had on how competition works in local business and you’d be sure to get some lively debate going if you fancy opening a new thread on the subject!
I totally agree with @Phil’s sentiment - there’s no need to criticise a new business before it’s even opened. @Phil wasn’t being rude. @Nancy has made it clear that she is positively engaging with the community, and the community has responded positively too. It’s important to read the whole thread.
Mamma Dough wasn’t the first pizza place in SE23 but it has made this area a known destination for Pizza, and as we’ve discussed in the BOnA thread, different people like different styles of Pizza, and all our pizza restaurants are thriving so there’s no need to fear the arrival of another one. Competition is great. It drives all businesses to do their best.
I wasn’t criticising the business before it’s opened, I was providing feedback and suggestions as a member of the local community.
Is there anyone from Mama Dough on this forum? Would be interested to get their thoughts. Also would be interested to hear from @Pauline on my analogy above. My personal views are that competion is healthy as a general rule, but there’s a huge difference between competing businesses in, say, Covent Garden and competing businesses in a tiny community such as Honor Oak. Fine if Mama Dough wasn’t a well loved local business that wasn’t performing well - but it is. Anyway, if anyone from Mama Dough is on here, they may be able to express this more knowledgeably and eloquently (or indeed disagree with me altogether!)
I seem to recall seeing what can happen when two competing businesses fall out over stocking similar items, advertising etc. Doesn’t always end well.
None the less, I don’t see why Mama Dough need be brought into the conversation really. Sure its competition so to speak, but one is a pub, one is a licensed restaurant.
I know you have good intentions, but I can’t help but feel that you are indeed being negative about both the choice of food, and the impact it may have on one business.
I am sure you appreciate that @Nancy and co have made their decision based on their own information, and are happy with it. With the equipment installed it is a little late in the day to change their mind.
They are different businesses, which will attract different crowds. The only question left is, if it appeals to you or not. I personally wish them all the best, and love the idea of a pub serving finger food which you can relax and eat. Rather than anything needing cutlery or catering to a specific taste. Pizza is pretty open to all.
There is a recognised retail model where similar businesses in close proximity actually support rather than compete with each other. For example, I’m much more likely to pop up to Forest Hill for a coffee knowing that if my first choice is full, there will be somewhere else of equal quality I can go to.
As you say, Mamma Dough is a well-loved local. There is no reason to think that pizza in a pub will damage their business unless the pizza in the pub is markedly better. Plus people like different sorts of pizza. We’ve had quite long discussions on here about the offerings locally and the conclusion was that people will go to the one they like best, and everyone had a different opinion on what that was.
A business has no obligation not to open in opposition to an established favourite. It’s up to the businesses to provide what their customers want, and up to customers to support businesses they want to see succeed. If another sweet shop opened in FH I’m sure @Pauline wouldn’t be happy, and it would be hard for another such shop to do what she does better, but there’s no moral obligation on the other retailer NOT to open.
Just as there’s no moral obligation for me not to express my disappoinment about another pizza place opening in the area!
Of course. As have others on this thread. Now it’s a done deal, we’ll just have to see how it all pans out.
I am expressing my opinion! It seems to me you’re saying that if I express an opinion that doesn’t coincide with everyone else’s then I’m being negative, is that correct?
No, I would say that you do not accept being told people disagree with your opinion, rather than being negative about it. Seeing that many others expressed similar opinions earlier in the thread, and received the same sort of replies.
No one has tried to offend anyone here, just grown adults saying what they feel. No name calling, but just appears you are in the minority at this time, and are not willing to let the matter go.
Dragging other businesses into a discussion about the morality of opening a business which may pose SLIGHT competition to another established business is maybe a little off topic.
@Chris @RachaelDunlop @Londondrz Maybe it is time to split this thread, and not ruin all the hard work and great communication from @Nancy and the Chandos
I really don’t understand @anon64893700. I expressed an opinion and offered constructive suggestions about what I as a local resident would like to see in the area. Once Nancy replied saying pizza was a done deal I accepted that and even said that I would probably give it a try (as Nancy seems like a nice, enthusiastic and positive lady and was very courteous in her response). I said I was interested to know what Mama Dough’s take on the situation is and also what @Pauline’s take on the matter is (as she’s a champion of local businesses). It may well be the case that they don’t agree with me entirely or at all, and that’s fine - I’m just interested to know their opinions, either way. Isn’t that what these discussions are about? I have no issues with people disagreeing with me and I don’t think it’s a fair comment to say that I do.
@Lin A lot of your replies seem to be highly strung and strongly worded, as if there is more to the issue. Your original post raised some fair issues, which as you say were addressed by Nancy, and accepted well. Fair play.
Wondering if Mamma Dough have any feelings on the matter, I would say is more an issue to be taken up directly with themselves, maybe emailing them to get their opinion on it. The threads intention is to inform the community about a new business opening, and what they will offer. They have taken on board suggestions from other uses in this thread.
As I said before, when quoting the earlier replies in the thread which you had not seen, there was a fair bit of back and forth about the choice of cuisine for the Chandos, but with the kitchen installed, and the opening coming up, there is no scope for change.
With regards to @Pauline and her status in the community, it is unfair for her to comment openly about such matters, especially on a hypothetical situation.
In short, I think the discussion is heading way off topic right now, and would encourage you to continue it on a new thread, with an over all scope of the community and competing businesses, rather than spot lighting one established and loved, and one about to embark on a new venture.
How people perceive other peoples replies is a personal thing, you possibly read mine in a context in which it is not intended, I may be doing the same.
To clarify my point, this topic is about the refitting and opening of the Chandos,
Discussion about business ethics as a whole should be dealt with separately
Hope that clears things up a bit.
I agree!
As the lady above says, now it’s a done deal we just have to see how it pans out. That was my position several responses ago when I said I’d give it a try. The only reason this thread has continued is that there was a lot of negativity being directed towards me and I chose to respond to that rather than accept unfair accusations being made against me. I think again there was a lot that was unmerited and unfair in even your last response @anon64893700 but I am going to check out of this conversation now because it’s not useful. I elected to join this forum to find out useful information about the local community and make constructive contributions where I can. I’m saddened that my contributions - and my responses in defence of the negativity directed towards me - have been perceived and cast in such a poor light. End of conversation (and good luck to Nancy and The Chandos team).
Thanks for closing this discussion off nicely @Lin Clearly some wires have been crossed and some misinterpretations made, I apologise for any you feel I may have made.
I don’t feel you were perceived negatively as such, but were just in the minority for the discussion, so it can become a little overwhelming.
Lets see what the Chandos delivers, and I am sure there will be much more to be said after the opening, positive and negative.
My thoughts exactly. One is a pizza restaurant serving alcohol. The other a drinking rstablushment serving pizza. Vast difference.
Personally, I don’t like it when small towns like Forest Hill and Honor Oak have too much of the same thing - although I understand RachelDunlop’s comment about it sometimes being quite handy to be able to use a competitor when her preferred coffee bar is packed out.
I’m a landlord and I always take a view of whether or not a prospective shop tenant’s proposed use could be to the detriment of an existing neighbouring business or to the town centre. Admittedly, finding diverse and interesting businesses to fill vacant shops has been challenging in the past but the area’s changing demographic is slowly starting to make little waves out there.
Oh, the things I could tell you about Mamma Dough…
do we need ‘go anonymous’ functionality?
Need / want, maybe… Get, no chance lol. 
I know I’ve been mentioned on this thread (not a problem with me at all) & I’d just like to add I can see both sides on the conversation so far in general.
@Lin welcome to the forum 
In the instance of The Chandos @Nancy & Mamma Dough I don’t think that The Chandos doing pizza will take trade away from Mamma Dough.
I think people that want to go out for pizza as a meal in HO will carry on using Mamma Dough & people that want to go out for a drink and enjoy pizza hopefully will choose The Chandos. This is only my opinion as one person.
As I’ve said on the Chandos thread @Nancy I appreciate you posting on here & wish you the best of luck with the venture
Depends whether people want to know or not, I don’t have a problem talking about what I’ve seen.
I’ve already made Lewisham Council aware of what my wife and I have had to put up with and witnessed, so…
In the balance of fairness, the forum as a whole is not for one second against freedom of opinion or speech, so I would say there is no need to refrain. However the content of the post would be subject to being factually correct, and not used as a form of slander or personal attack. Hope that makes sense.
So in short, I would say you are free to post or PM people with your experiences, but the post may be subject to being split or moderated depending on how the discussion were to go.
I would also add that it would be better to either be explicit or say nothing at all, rather than leaving it up to speculation.
Very much so.
I agree. I do not wish to get the forum into any trouble.
Perhaps if I were to tell a moderator directly of what I have seen and they may advise as to whether they think it might be in the interests of the forum to post publicly here?
Feel free to message myself , @RachaelDunlop @Londondrz or @anon5422159 Matt, if you want. Then it can be discussed and go from there. Appreciate your consideration.
And as soon as I’ve worked out how you do that, I will.
Sent you a message @MattB
On the subject of posting personal experiences about a business, any business, that are inflammatory then I would tread very carefully, true or not. And as a forum, you should be careful what you allow to be posted. There is no such thing as the freedom to say what you like about any individual or business, and again the truth doesn’t really come into it.
Illegal activities, health and safety violations or discrimination should be reported to the proper authorities, but even if you go through that procedure and the authority in question seems sympathetic to your cause, posting said information could become troublesome. Take the proper course of action, and of course take your business elsewhere, and be satisfied by that.
I would have thought that any new business, of whatever nature, would attract more footfall, which would benefit both new and existing businesses…
I can’t see why honest opinions should not be given on the forum, although as has been stated, allegations of matters such as breaking the law could attract trouble. However, the power of the press and more recently social media is such that the mere threat of using these channels may be enough to make establishment owners take matters seriously. It goes without saying that the forum would not publish any defamatory matter.
My personal policy has always been to complain to the person in charge at the establishment in the first instance i f there is cause for complaint, and if that is unsussessful, go to the top. If that doesn’t work, go public via local forums, Facebook etc.
I think similar local businesses can be a real plus. They keep each other on their toes, and if both are as good as they set out to be then customers will use both. If you have one unique business in an area they sometimes they can get a little tired, complacent and lacking in special offers. And competition benefits everybody - the business, the customers…
Can I be left out of this please, unless anyone asks me specifically to reply, which I will happily do.
I do speak my mind as both resident & trader, but please don’t have a go just for the sake of it.
Happy to answer to any genuine questions from anyone on this topic, but I never asked to be brought into this & am not annoyed or upset with anyone that has mentioned me either, but please leave me out of this argument unless I can help, thank you