No rail services between Sydenham and Crystal Palace on Sunday and Jubilee Line not operating past Waterloo all weekend

From today’s TFL’s weekend travel information email:

National Rail website is showing this is due to engineering work between Sydenham and Crystal Palace, which logically would usually also affect the Southern Railways London Bridge - Crystal Palace service via Sydenham that normally operates on Sundays. Although there is no mention of Southern being affected on the National Rail engineering works section no direct rail services are displaying on their journey planner! (It’s not unusual for discrepancies like this to occur and often are not updated until the day before travel!)

Also although not directly a local service for those needing to travel into Central London for on Sunday and expecting to change onto the Jubilee Line at Canada Water please note it will only be operating as far as Waterloo!

Thank you!
I’m working Sunday and cant work out from the TFL email whether trains will actually be running to West Croydon from Canada water or if in effect it means we have no overground at all.
Also Like you I’m confused as to whether London Bridge services are running or not because then it makes an easier link of Northern-Central line which tends to actually be quicker than jubilee-Bakerloo line to Oxford circus.
any enlightenment will be gratefully received.!

Hi Max,

Up until 12pm the Overground trains that would normally have terminated at Crystal Palace are running to West Croydon instead, so from Forest Hill we will have the same number of Overground trains to Canada Water as on a normal Sunday but after 12pm the trains that would have normally terminated at Crystal Palace are terminating at New Cross Gate leaving us with just the usual West Croydon services (so less trains). There will still be the 1/2 hourly Southern service from Caterham & Tattenham Corner to London Bridge which stops at Forest Hill at 18 and 48 minutes past each hour up to 1218 and then 16 and 46 minutes past from 1246.

Thank you !
I’m so grateful to you for responding-and I’m relieved Sundays journey won’t be too tortourous after all

You’re welcome Max.

If you have to travel on Sunday, your best bet is to use National Rail enquiries or Southern Rail’s websites as Southern hold the contract for that branch of the Overground. It will clearly show if rail replacement buses are available.

Don’t use TFL’s journey planner, it’s useless.

Ah - interesting you feel that, at I’ve often thought the same. I think TfL have put too much biassing into it to try and avoid busy underground interchanges so some of the routes it suggests can get a bit ‘imaginative’.

And it’s got the silly thing that suggests you take a long walk or cycle seemingly no matter how long that would be. I understand that we want to encourage walking and cycling, but I’m probably looking at the journey planner because I already consider those options as inpractical for the journey. A nudge towards cycling & walking might be a good idea, but why does it bother suggesting cycle hire which takes 2 hours when even the bus is only 1 hour!?! At least it’s not suggested a 3 hour walk in this one:

Screenshot_20210123-0316071440×5513 609 KB

I find the Citymapper app is much much better than the TfL journey planner.

I’ve found the same thing as you @ForestHull. The TfL Journey Planner has definitely been offering some “creative” options at times over the last 9 months. I suspect they’re changing some of the algorithms that determine what is displayed to avoid certain interchanges and busier lines. Like you I find the Citymapper app much better than TfL and easy to see all the options in one go.

Also note that the cycling journey times are I believe estimated at 10mph which is fairly ‘slow’. My wife was cycling to Angel daily (8 miles) in 40-45 min at about 12mph average. I used to go into the City (7 miles) in 30 mins and my son cycles to the south side of Westminster Bridge (6 miles) in 20 mins, and yes he is fast. But any of those destinations, even at 12mph will be faster than the ‘fastest by public transport’ options and are generally more reliable.

• the usual disclaimer applies, yes I am aware not everyone is able to cycle. I’m only posting these as examples of how much quicker it is by bike not to mention the cost savings.

The way TfL show their “lines not working” is a bit backwards I think. Once you can decode what they mean, it makes it a bit easier. The map they show should be inverse, ie grey out the lines that aren’t running, and keep highlighted the parts that are running.

For our line, for ease of use they split it up. So Highbury to New Cross Gate, Sydenham to Crystal Palace, Sydenham to West Croydon, Surrey Quays to New Cross and Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction. Also Highbury to Dalston Jn, or Highbury to Shadwell.

So if TfL site says no service between Highbury to Shadwell, NXG to Crystal Palace/West Croydon and no service Surrey Quays to New Cross. That means The only service is between Shadwell and New Cross Gate and Clapham Junction.

If they say “no service between Highbury and Dalston Jn and between Sydenham to Crystal Palace” it actually means “This weekend, trains will only run between Dalston Jn to New Cross, West Croydon and Clapham Junction”. That would be so much easier for everyone to understand.