Archived on 6/5/2022

Crane at old car wash and Aviation lighting!?

19 Jan '22

anyone who can guesstimate how tall the newly erected crane at the former car wash opposite Waldram Pl is?
Last night (its first night) it was left open at ~150 Degrees angle without any Aviation Lighting. Minimum is 45 m for requirements I read, but this one seems to be taller in my eyes (eyeballing the workers walking on tope of it).
Anything to be worried about?

19 Jan '22

Planes fly low over Forest Hill… but not that low. :crazy_face:

19 Jan '22

Well it could be an issue for the Forest Hill Society’s fleet of helipcopters that fly you and Clausy to meetings!

In all seriousness though we do have a number of low flying police helicopters fairly regularly, as well as some air ambulances so this is pretty bad and dangerous if they are not lit at night. Not sure who you report it to - maybe worth just mentioning it if you pass them, could just have been a one-off human error. No idea on the height helicopters fly at in these scenarios I will admit or what the the height rules are for cranes.

20 Jan '22

I believe they must generally fly at least 1000 ft above fixed obstacles, eg cranes, masts, hills etc.
Generally also they navigate by eye, so if they need to go lower or land eg an air ambulance, then the red light at night could be important.

28 Jan '22

I’ve only seen sign for 1st ACE Security at the gates. Emailed them about this and if they have a company name responsible for the site to redirect the concern-; So far no reply.
There should be low intensity red light if 45m<
I guess the helis don’t fly that low unless landing which there’s no where possible around this site anyway.

28 Jan '22

Sadly I saw a helicopter this morning circling around Bell Green (possibly related to a crash there) - not sure if it was looking for somewhere to land but it was going round and round lower and lower so if that crane had been there at night with no light definitely a potential issue. Hopefully it has been remedied - thanks for trying.

30 Jan '22

It’s not a crane, it’s a heron. And a plane. All in one. You’re welcome :slight_smile:

1 Feb '22

So CAA was contacted to follow-up/advice re. the crane and low flying choppers-
they contacted the company and here is result with info for future ref:
“ The operator has informed us they have one light at the jib tip – Currently it is un-lit, permanent electric is to be connected 08.02.2022.
It is a luffing crane, with a maximum height of 72m above ground level.

We can confirm that the Position of the crane is outside of any aerodrome safeguarding areas. As such this crane is not considered an aerodrome obstruction but would be considered an En-Route obstruction.

UK Legislation dictates that for En-route obstructions, aviation warning lighting is mandated for obstructions of 150m above ground level or more. The aviation legislation requirement (Article 222 of the Air Navigation Order) for “en-route obstacles” the heights of which are 150 metres or more above ground level is for aircraft warning lighting to be displayed at night. The full Air Navigation Order can be viewed on the CAA website.”

2 Feb '22

I’ve moved down the road and away from this, but I saw the crane today for the first time. I can’t remember what they agreed the could build there – is that new flats? And is the long-talked-about hotel headed for the Co op site?

2 Feb '22

Yes - if I remember correctly the old Portacabin site is to be flats with a nursery/pre-school on the ground floor and the old Co-op site is due to be a hotel!

2 Feb '22

I think the ground floor of the portacabin site has been revised to add more residential. It is a pretty bad location for a nursery.

I haven’t seen any revisions to the plans for the Coop site, but it seems unlikely that a hotel is required now that home working and reduced business travel has become so entrenched. However, it may provide much needed ‘temporary’ accommodation for homeless people that Lewisham and other boroughs have difficulty housing in permanent accommodation.

2 Feb '22

I agree.
There is a better alternative opening between the railway path/Clyde Terrace and the back of the shops along Dartmouth Road -

8 Feb '22

10 Feb '22

Consulted AROps today again, 10th Feb:

“The crane is not located within an Aerodrome safeguarding area and at the height confirmed to us, there is no legislative requirement for it to be lit with Aviation Warning Lights.”
Hopefully nothi

10 Feb '22

You wrote this on the forum 9 days ago. It seems like the matter is closed. I cycle by this crane most days and it appears in good order.