2018 Timetable Consultation (Southern) Mark 2



The same issue is also happening more and more frequently on the Southern Victoria - London Bridge services. If a service is running more than a few minutes late they run fast from Crystal Palace to London Bridge when there can be up to 15 minutes wait for the next London Overground service at Crystal Palace. What’s even more annoying is that generally the change isn’t notified before the train leaves Victoria so it’s too late to choose a different route that would be quicker.


I have been informed that the final version of the changes to the May timetable will be up on the National Rail Enquiries Service from next Monday


It is perpetually less than perfect. The 19.06 from LBG seems to run fast to Crotdon more than it doesn’t. Then occasionally they have the temerity to leave a minute early, normally when I and many others are just walking (running!) into the terminus.


The good news with the final draft is that the final late service from London Bridge has been reinstated, leaving a minute earlier at 0035 to East Croydon, which maintains the connection with the final London Overground service to New Cross Gate.

Also worth noting that evening peak services from London Bridge to West Croydon are extended to Sutton.

The final through service to Victoria however leaves Forest Hill at 2312 with remaining services terminating at Streatham Hill.

The bulk of East Croydon services will run to Coulsdon Town with late services terminating at East Croydon, while there are some Caterham services during the late morning peak and all day Sunday.

Southern services on Sunday that normally run to West Croydon will run to Crystal Palace instead.


Worth a reminder that from May 21, the first direct train to East Croydon during the morning peak isn’t until 0825.

Before then options are to use London Overground or Southern services to West Croydon and change for the tram (Tram isn’t covered by normal Southern season tickets) or change at Norwood Junction for Thameslink services to East Croydon.

Trains from Norwood Junction to East Croydon after 6am before the first direct FH train are at 0612, 0642, 0702, 0712, 0742 and 0812.


I’ve just seen this on the train timetables. I’ve written to Ellie Reeves MP as people base House purchases and jobs on rail connections.

I personally will now have to do a train, Tram and a final train to commute each way to work. My commute has gone up by c. 20 mins each way.

I am at my the end of my tether with Southern as it is and this is just the icing on the cake.

I wonder how often the teams are from WC to EC?


There should be a tram from West to East every 3-5 mins. However services have been cut from East to West with trams running every 7 mins as most trams now go to Wimbledon. Buses also run to West Croydon or you could walk via George Street and North End for a leisurely stroll between to the two stations.

One thing I forgot to mention is that from next Monday, Overground trains at West Croydon will no longer terminate at Platform 4 next to the tram stop. They will terminate at Platform 1 instead which will include walking up a flight of stairs to exit the station.


Thanks for the insight. It just gets better and better.


I thought there was going to be interchange available at Norwood Junction. Is there a particular time at which that doesn’t work out faster than West Croydon and tram?


So passengers needing to travel to anywhere between West Croydon and Epsom will no longer be able to change using the same platform at West Croydon either. That means they’re taking step free access away from those with mobility issues - as changing platforms at Norwood Junction also involves stairs. So much for TFL’s commitment to making travel more accessible for all!


I don’t think this is TfL’s fault. The Thameslink programme has the higher priority, so to ensure the service runs properly (it won’t!), they’ve shifted our Overground services to Platform 1, where they won’t get delayed by late running Southern trains coming in from Sutton, while Southern trains will use the current turnaround bay just outside the station and return to Platform 3.

Sundays however, Overground services will continue to use Platform 4 to terminate and Platform 3 to head back.


There is but is very sporadic. I posted the times above, but most trains will have a 30 minute gap in service before 8am, which makes the West Croydon/Tram alternative a slightly quicker alternative.

I haven’t checked the evening peak to be fair, but I suspect it’s 2tph on Thameslink to Bedford from East Croydon.


When I used to do this journey, there was a Horsham train which was handy for this. Has this been axed then?


The ‘replacement’ for us is a half-hourly Thameslink service from Bedford to Gatwick Airport which won’t call at New Cross Gate, but will call at Norwood Junction, Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill and all stations to Gatwick Airport.

There are some peak services to Horsham however from Peterborough which call at Norwood Junction.

Norwood Junction off-peak will have 4tph to East Croydon, two Thameslink and 2tph from London Bridge which already call at Forest Hill.


Every half hour there is a service where you have 6 minutes to change train at Norwood Junction and a journey time of 21 mins to East Croydon.
The first direct train arrives at East Croydon at 8.42am, 17 minutes after leaving Forest Hill.

And if don’t want to take the tram you can go via Selhurst:

Note: this is a silly idea but may work out cheaper.


I trust you have raised your concerns in the various public consultations which have been taking place over the last two years and have been highly publicised, including at East Croydon station and also in this forum.

In case you haven’t, you should thank those who did and managed to make the timetable a lot better than their original proposal. Imho, writing to the MP at this stage is a waste of both your time and theirs - although I can understand how it might help with the frustration.

In my experience it got a whole lot better over the last year or so. There is still the odd annoying occasion where they don’t stop late running trains at SE23 stations but in general it’s pretty reliable these days. Let’s wait how it all works after the changes next week have bedded in.


Of course I responded to the consultation, wrote to our old MP etc. However doesn’t take away from the fact they have removed a route that is well used and connects with a major interchange.


Southern/GTR have already admitted that they’ll be cancellations as they don’t have enough drivers to run the new timetable!

The whole GTR/Thameslink Programme debacle has been nothing short of farcical.