Forest Hill assembly frustration

Last month I submitted a bid, on behalf of the local community group I chair, to the forest hill assembly. From the information on the website it seems like you submit a bid and as long as you can demonstrate a linked benefit to one of the Forest Hill priorities then the proposal would go to the assembly meeting on 15 October to be voted on. Of course, I was prepared to not receive the funding if the local community- the assembly group- did not deem it as relevant or worthy compared to other bids. I also assumed all applications would be vetted to some extent before being put to vote but I didn’t anticipate a sub group, The Forest Hill coordinating group, being able to withhold bids from the larger assembly.

When I received an email about the Forest Hill Coordinating Group’s decision it was the first I’d heard of them. There is very little information online, including dated minutes from 2008-2011 and an old message on the SE23 forum in 2014 mentioning that anyone can join the coordinating group and by joining you can “discuss things that matter to you and your neighbours, shape the future of Forest Hill, get involved at a local level and make a real difference in your area, help to plan the assembly meetings to make them accessible, interesting and relevant to all residents.”

I phoned the Assembly coordinator Maya and Cllr Peter Bernards for clarification. It turns out the Forest Hill Coordinating group acts like a scrutiny panel to assess the bids. I find this troubling because there is nothing listed online, especially on the webpages detailing the Forest Hill Assembly funding application. I had also emailed my bid and asked about the procedures to follow. I received a reply simply stating my bid was received and that someone would be in touch soon. I think it would have been helpful to make clear at the beginning the process the completed bid goes through.

I also find it troubling because I’m not sure who makes up the Forest Hill Coordinating group. There is no quoracy so it seems like if only 1-2 people turned up they are the ones who could funnel the bids through the assembly. Maya reminded me that anyone can join the group and that they announce it at every assembly meeting. I have been to 3 assembly meetings in the past few years and I vaguely recall mention about helping to shape the assembly by joining the coordinating group. It felt very much like the group would plan when the next meeting but I remember not really knowing much. There’s obvious benefits with anyone being able to join the group but obvious concerns if they are acting as a scrutiny panel; they could also have vested interests.

I should make clear that I’m not opposed to a scrutiny panel. I think it makes sense if people with expertise are assessing bids based on a strict set of criteria but it doesn’t seem like this has happened.

I’m confused as well because Maya was able to send me a copy of the guidance document to the forest hill assembly which specifically lays out “The coordinating group have an advisory, developmental role in the allocation of the Assembly Fund. They do not make decisions on behalf of the assembly.”

It seems very much like the Coordinating Group has made decisions about allowing bids to be taken to the Assembly.

I’m also concerned that the Coordinating Group meetings are no longer minuted. When I raised this with Maya she said “no one reads them” and also she’s too stretched to do them. I would recommend that in a meeting where decisions are being made about funding, minutes should be taken as a priority. This could possibly be shared by members.

I should also add that on Saturday I went along to the Forest Hill library to chat to one of the Cllrs as the website states their surgery hours are held then. After waiting 15 minutes with my not-so-patient toddler I left. When I got ahold of Cllr Bernards he said he was busy campaigning for a by election and when I asked why he didn’t take 2 minutes to update the website or phone the library about the cancelled surgery he said “most of the time no one comes.”

As someone who is working full time and a parent I have found the process of getting involved, really disheartening.

In short, I think that the assembly funding process needs review. If the assembly simply exists to ratify bids then that should be made clear and the make up, advertisement and accountability of the coordinating group as a scrutiny panel needs review.

I did end up getting feedback about my bid which I appreciate. But, I only wish that I was present to be able to explain in further detail. Maya explained that some of the bids were offered less money than what they bid for. If this sort of flexibility is offered than perhaps the groups proposing bids should be specifically invited by the scrutiny panel/coordinating group to answer questions/concerns and the process could be more fluid.

If the assembly funding is meant to be decided, prioritised and democratically selected by the assembly then the bids should be minimally vetted and the assembly should do the rest.

I very much hoped to raise some of these issues at Saturday’s Assembly meeting. The chair of the meeting Cllr Bernards had suggested I do so. However, Maya has written to me to advise me that the Assembly meeting on Saturday would not be an appropriate time and place to discuss assembly funding procedures. I simply couldn’t think of a better time and place!

I would be interested to hear from other local residents on whether they feel the procedure is clear, transparent and fair.

Hi Diana

Like I said when I spoke to you I don’t know how this coordinating group works.

What I do know is that the applications submitted came to just over £28,000 this year.

The assembly funding available for this year is just over £13,000 and £5,000 of that is being given to our new library specifically to be spent on things related to kids literacy, which means there is only £8,000 available this year for all other projects.

I have applied for FHFW funding for next year and have got to the final stages with this so I will be at the assembly meeting on Saturday promoting this.

I think (but I may be wrong here) that the thing considered mostly when making these decisions is how many local residents benefit from the funded projects - So I think the projects that reach out to the most people probably are the ones that make the final stage.

I love what you’re doing with the parenting group and hope this doesn’t put you off going for funding again, and do apply for other ward assembly funding as I don’t think as many projects apply in other wards as they do in FH ward.

I am a member of the coordinating group and I would encourage others in the community to join. However, I was not present at the coordinating group for two reasons: 1) I had two other meetings that I had to attend at the same time, and 2) I have not attended these meetings - where decisions are made on the projects to put forward to a vote - for many years, as I would have a conflict of interests as chair of the Forest Hill Society (which regularly submits bids). Even attending these meetings would seem to put pressure on the coordinating group to back bids from my organisation. But I wanted to make sure that people knew that somebody on the coordinating group is on this forum and responding.

Sadly the coordinating group does not have many members, in fact it is difficult to establish who is really a member, but the councillors have overall control of the committee and I suspect have a majority at all coordinating group meetings. So others present are more advisory - not that this isn’t important.

I think the assembly is the ideal forum to discuss the role of the coordinating group, although I would hope that the decision of the coordinating group is respected so that voting on the bids accepted can go ahead. Perhaps while votes are being counted there would be time for some discussion of the role of the coordinating group and how others can join (not just to influence decision making on their own bids)

I don’t know what your bid was for, but I do know that in past years, and in other wards, funding has gone to groups for questionable projects that may well have been of primary benefit to people in other wards, or funding something that did not really seem to be good value for money (of course everybody will have a different idea about what constitutes value for money).

I wish you luck in fundraising for your project.

I also submitted a bid that was not put forward to the final stage. I can see that due to the massive over subscription this year some bids were not going to make it and I entirely accept the result and make no bones about it whatsoever. While I think mine was a valid bid with potential and value, I also have no doubt that others are of equal or greater value and wish them every success.

I would agree with the Diana’s comments on feedback however. I submitted my bid and then heard nothing at all, not even an acknowledgement they had received it. While I can understand that web sites can not be updated with every movement and detail of every action in every ward, I do think a simple response to an email, by email, to say something has been received on time and was being considered, is not unreasonable.

And Diana’s frustrations with the Councillor surgery being cancelled, but nothing being done to mention it - that is part of the reason no one goes to them - I have been to one before (not FH) to find exactly the same thing happened, so I’ll not be making that mistake again. Unfortunately the words ‘Council’ and ‘Frustration’ have to be placed side by side far too often. And I would make the distinction here between Council and Councillors, as the elected officials are generally not the ones at fault.

Thanks for your message Pauline. I’m pleased your FHFW bid was successful through to the next stage but the fact that we are all a bit unsure of how the coordinating group works is worrying. I think there needs to be clear criteria set available beforehand about what happens if bids exceed the amount of money available. It makes sense in part to prioritise the bids that have wider reach, but sometimes reaching smaller vulnerable groups may be more valuable. It just seems like something that the Assembly should be able to prioritise and decide. Not the mysterious coordinating group.

Thanks Michael. I’m glad to hear that you recognise the conflict of interest apparent if you were to attend the coordinating group but I’m not sure if others may be as forthcoming. I definitely think there needs to be more transparency- about membership and the group’s governance.

It really sounds like the assembly funding bids need some rethinking. I’ve no doubt that there are some great bids that we’ll hear about on Saturday but there were also other bids that the assembly won’t get to see which may have been equally worthy.

I’d be happy to contribute to a discussion while votes are counted. This is roughly what Cllr Bernard and I had discussed before I received the message saying it was now deemed inappropriate.

I’ve just come back from this meeting. Of the eight short-listed projects, the bids from the Friends of Baxter Fields, Friends of Albion Millennium Green, scouting for children with special educational needs, Devonshire Road Nature Reserve and the FH Society plants and tree lights projects were approved in full.The two not selected were Forest Hill Fashion Week and Broken Hearted Youth film and theatre company, but it was decided that the balance left in the kitty of £2500 should be divided equally between them (as they both got the same number of votes).

It would be interesting to know how many people voted - I was there twice, and on both occasions the hall looked rather empty. There seems to be some uncertainty as to whether everyone who should have been leafleted about the meeting or emailed about it - I don’t think I was.

My first visit was to vote, my second for the meeting proper (schedules for 3.20- 4.15). The agenda for the meeting included ‘councillor and community updates’ and ‘any other business’ as well as the results of the vote, but only the last of these actually happened, and we were sent home early. I told Cllr Maja Hilton that I was disappointed about this.

I would say there was probably only around 20 people there.

Myself and Broken Hearted Youth did apply for more funding than the other projects.

FHFW £2500
BHY £1850

I spoke to Michael (who I already know) from BHY & they will still be able to go ahead with the project but will need to find a venue that’s not as expensive so I’ve gave him the appropriate persons email to see if this could be done at @V22_Louise_House

I’ll go ahead with FHFW no matter what, and I’ve got time to go for other funding.

All the projects today were all great projects , so well done to everyone!

You all probably know about FHFW, but here’s what BHY applied for funding for which I think is a very worthy cause.

IMG_5250.JPG1936×2592 1.2 MB

ETA The library also got £5000 to be spent on things related to kids literacy which was earmarked a while back

I agree that turnout didn’t seem great and I don’t remember seeing any leaflet through the door. Though living in a flat sometimes those leaflets get chucked away by our neighbours. I definitely didn’t get an email about it. I spoke to the 3 ward councillors and they agreed, rather reluctantly at first, that we should review the funding procedures and think of better ways to engage more residents. Hope you can come to the next meeting where they’ve assured me it will be on the agenda. I’m hoping to help present by laying out some of the issues and possible suggestions. Let me know if you have any specific ideas.

I voted for the Fashion Week bid Pauline but to be honest I didn’t vote for the BHY project for several reasons. Firstly, when I chatted to them, they agreed there were a few church halls and other venues they could scope out. These, V22 Louise House included may mean they could find a better hire rate. Also, I understand everyone needs to work and certainly don’t expect people to work for free but it did seem slightly strange to see that fees to the bid proposer were worked into the budget. It felt slightly odd and I couldn’t imagine putting in a bid to pay myself for something. Finally, the number of beneficiaries listed on the bid was 42. I was surprised at this given that one of the reasons the coordinating group said it did not put forward my bid (which had a higher beneficiary number) was because there were other projects which benefitted more people in the community. In any case, I do fully support engaging young people in the arts and wish their project a success.

I am on the coordinating group and I did attend the meeting. I joined the coordinating group about 6 months ago so it was my first time to scrutinize the assembly fund bids.

About 15 people were sent information about the bids and were asked to comment especially if they couldn’t attend the meeting.

The meeting was held on a wet Tuesday night at Forest Hill pools when I should have been helping to put the kids to bed. We went through all the bids using the same criteria for each, principally does it meet the 5 fund priority areas, reach people within the ward and value for money. We sanity checked all the bids as well using common sense and our knowledge of the area.

I spent about an hour and a half before the meeting reading the bids and about 2 hours on the night going through the bids. Each bidder submitted an 8 page document answering 9 questions with a budget summary so over 100 pages to read from 14 applicants.
At the meeting, we assessed each bid checking the criteria, the financials, researching some of the organizations and venues. Everybody was given a chance to comment on each bid.

The key to the process was how well the bidder demonstrated with evidence on this form how their project would succeed and how it was budgeted.

Of the 14, we advised that 6 be eliminated, 2 should be questioned further and 6 should go through. Emails went round and people were asked to agree/disagree with that advice. The 2 bidders questioned came back with reasonable answers and were put forward giving a total of 8 to be voted on.

I think the process was fair, there was no undue influence either from Councillors or the Forest Hill Society. Michael, I think we could have coped with you at the meeting.

The bids that succeeded such as Friends of Baxter Field gave evidence on their form why it was a good project and how they met the criteria. It was a joy to read.

I don’t think it would be appropriate for me to comment on your application here. Since you have scrutinized the assessment of your application, it would be good for people here to see what you submitted so they can see both sides.

I hope you succeed in getting funding.

The coordinating group is open to all and everybody is welcome to join.

Hi Paul, Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, while you feel the process has been ‘fair’, it has definitely not been transparent and accessible. I shouldn’t have had to rely on a member of the group posting on the local forum to explain the process. There should be minutes for this meeting and a list of attendees. I’m still unsure how many people attended the meeting in question.

I’m also unsure the process was fair as two of the bids had additional information requested/emails sent for clarification. Perhaps, if the group would have emailed me I could have clarified points of concern with my particular bid. Further, I appreciate the time you took to review the bids but I’m wondering if others did the same and whether training or guidance was provided by the Council.

As someone who spent some time (while balancing working full time, parenting and a host of other volunteer work) on the bid, I can assure you the process was not clear. A few extra lines on the website and/or on the bid forms laying out the criteria and the process would have been much appreciated.

I’m not asking you or anyone to comment on my bid at this point, although I have attached it for reference. I feel like the Councillors and possibly you included have taken my criticism as being about me not getting funding. My concerns are very much centred around the process and a lack of transparency.

I was very prepared to not receive funding for the bid if it was the decision of the Assembly as I was led to believe would be making the decision. I’ve been confused at how this whole process works and very much hope to make suggestions so that it can be a more open, transparent, accountable and accessible process. Even if you don’t think there was anything wrong with the way the coordinating group operates, surely you’d be open to improvements? Despite your invitation that the coordinating group is open to all and everybody is welcome to join there remains no information (terms of reference, meeting dates, membership, etc) on the lewisham council website about the coordinating group. I’ve mentioned this to the Council and would hope that they’d amend it.

If my schedule allows it I will be at the next coordinating group meeting and if not, will definitely be at the next Assembly presenting on this point so hope to see you there. ForestHillFundApplicationForm2Parents.pdf (148.9 KB)

@robin.orton

Hi Robin
There were I think 46 ballot papers. (I may be wrong but is in that region) Certainly the winning bids had each 41 votes.

I must admit that I don’t think I have received the leaflet about the meeting and have complained about that. Hubby could have safely deposited it in the recycling bin but I hope he would have show it to me first as he knows my interest.

Weeding my inbox, I discover that I did in fact receive an email about the meeting - from Maya Onyett on 11 October. Apologies to her and others for giving the impression I hadn’t.