Forest Hill Ward Assembly - 8th December

Thursday 8th December, 7pm at The Honor Oak Christian Fellowship Centre, 39 Honor Oak Road SE23 3SH

What’s on the agenda?

1. NHS Update – Dorothy Muir - Overview of Primary Care Challenges, a chance to give your views.
2. Forest Hill Library Update – Michael Abrahams
3. SNT update – PC Michael Hill
4. Dartmouth Road Update – written update
5. Group discussion exercise - Talk to your fellow neighbours about what you think the assembly should focus on.

This assembly is open to all people who live, work or learn in Forest Hill Ward (everything west of the railway line south of Honor Oak Park, and as far south as Wells Park).

Can’t make it, sorry dude

Reminder to all. See you later this evening if you can make it.

Unfortunately unable to make it.

A lively though not very well attended meeting. The expected NHS speaker, who was going to tell us about the plans for the reconfiguration of services in SE London (as well as about why there is no GP practice in FH ward), gave last minute apologies. Her bosses had instructed her to pull out, because talking to us at this stage did not fit in with the approved ‘consultation model.’ A consultation document on the STP (‘sustainability and transformation plan’) for our area is to be published early next year. Expect bad news.

Work on the new Dartmouth Road layout will start early next year. It will require a contra-flow system for traffic, which will be moved along Dartmouth Road in a southerly direction from the station as the work on each section is completed. The whole process will take, if I remember rightly, over a year.

Paul Upex said that the council (or individual councillors?) are planning to make representations the unacceptable changes to FH train services currently being proposed by Southern.

He also promised to let us have the link to the formal report on the outcome of the consultation on a controlled parking zone covering the Dartmouth Road/Kirkdale area. (I have just looked for it myself on the LBL website - in vain).

Thanks Robin.

Good update, cheers Robin

Robin, the consultation report is on this link
https://lewisham-consult.objective.co.uk/portal/proposed_cpz_-_forest_hill

Forest Hill is from page 40 onwards.

Thanks, BorderPaul. Confirms what was said last night, that most respondents opposed the CPZ , except those at the bottom end of Thorpewood Avenue, in response to whose special problems the council is urged to consider some sort of ad hoc parking control.

Which committee or forum within the Council would consider this? What would be the decision-making process?

The transport team with the council have already concluded that “There is no street or logical grouping of streets in the study area where there is a clear case for the introduction of a new CPZ.”
That really ought to be an end to the matter until there is a substantial change to parking in the local area.

Is there a case for extending the current 30 minute limit on Dartmouth Road to (say) an hour? This might alleviate some of the problems.

I think 40 minutes is the current plan. This works better than 30 minutes, but personally I would have thought an hour would be better.

Surely with the work starting, this is something which could be managed - who decides this sort of thing? Is it as simple as writing to the Lewisham highways dept?

Probably. Let us know how you get on.

I have had some dealings with the Traffic department. I would advise you to come up with an argument to back up your requirement and look at the downside and who is likely to object.

Why do you want to extend it to an hour? Are you trying to get people to park there who are using the swimming pool or just allow people more time to eat/browse the shops?

Will they bring any additional benefit to the traders on Dartmouth Road? If only half the number of people can park there, will the traders lose half their car customers or will the new ones be twice as valuable?

As a trader I might be happier to have people park outside my shop/restaurant for a short period of time to collect food etc than somebody to park there for an hour unless of course they are going to eat-in/browse?

The other thing I would advise you to do is be patient. With cutbacks, it may take a while to look into your request and come back to you.

When I want to eat in FH I have to use one of the car parks as the time allowed in the bays is not enough. There’s always plenty of space in the car parks so there’s enough provision. But if I’m feeling lazy or the weather is bad it might put me off tromping up to @TheArchieParker (which I love). I’ll end up in the Teapot or @StDavid instead. So definitely a potential disadvantage to Dartmouth Road eateries.

That’s true. But I always compare to Bromley, where I will happily park in The Hill, and walk to the town centre.
If the cafes and shops are good then a 5 minute walk will not deter people except in the worst weather.

I have a 3 year old - the idea of parking on Dartmouth Road appeals because (at a conservative estimate) it would take 15 mins to walk with her from Perry Vale to (say) the Pools. An hour would be enough time for lunch at a cafe, or a quick trip to the pools.

I’ve emailed them and asked if they’re the right team to discuss this with. I’ll let you know how I get on, but given that I tried to contact them in November to ask about tree trimming and didn’t hear anything back yet, I am not hopeful.

It’s a different topic but a footbridge from the Perry Vale car park would make such a difference…

Dave
You’d be surprised at how quick that walk is. I did this exercise a few months back and put forward a suggestion to get Lewisham to allow 2hrs free in Perry Vale, like Sainsburys car park, and for all the traders in the town to actively promote 2 HOURS FREE PARKING IN 2 CAR PARKS WITHIN 2 MINUTES OF THE TOWN CENTRE (hello!!!), but it fell on deaf ears.

I don’t know how fast you walk, @Anotherjohn, I’d love to see anyone getting from their car in the Perry Vale car park to the pools in less than five minutes! Two? Nah. It’s somwhere between five and ten minutes for me at normal walking pace. I can imagine it easily being more then ten with a toddler. Not that any of these times are actually that onerous. But when you see an empty space outside the Archie Parker and you’ve just walked up the hill…

Two free hours in the Perry Vale car park would be great. Do they think that would be used by train users? Is it long enough to go somewhere and come back?

My methodology in this highly scientific study.

Taken at a stroll by a reasonably fit 5’10 adult male without shopping bags, prams/buggies/wheelchairs or very young, elderly or slow-moving people or animals.

Location of Forest Hill Town Centre - main traffic light junction.

Time to walk there from Perry Vale car park entrance - 1 minute 30
or, from London Road exit of Sainsburys car park - 1 minute.

Time to walk from Barclays Bank to swimming pools - 4 minutes.

So add another 30 seconds to get from car to roadside at Perry Vale. Time to traffic lights then becomes 2 minutes. Time to @TheArchieParker or pools, another 4. That’s 6 minutes. I have little legs. Make it 7. We are therefore in agreement.

It would make a huge difference. Does anyone know if the Council is seeking funding for this project, or has anyone looking at designs?

I agree that a footbridge from the car park would be ideal and we are working with a firm of architects to see what might be possible as part of a complete rebuild of the station. Don’t expect anything to happen soon.

Getting a sense of deja vu on this thread.

Apologies for dwelling on something that’s slightly off-topic but I will get off my soap box after this quick one.

Yes, Rachel. But my thing is purely about getting people parked-up and into the centre of town and, once they’re there, they don’t need to rush. Our pitifully few 30 or 40 minute on-street bays don’t work for people going to the pools or for a relaxing coffee and sandwich - let alone a hairdressing or beauty appointment.

In my opinion, as someone who’s had too many abortive dealings with good independent businesses [who were contemplating a move here], Forest Hill needs to be a place where its visitors can pop in and out of a few shops and go for a coffee at their leisure; and until the people who make decisions can find a way of squaring that circle we’re not going to get very far.

Totally agree with @Anotherjohn points on this.

I also completely agree about the footbridge, but do know this is something @Michael & the fab FH Society have been working on for a while & will take millions of pounds to do this.

Personally I’d like it if there was no parking at all on Dartmouth road !

Also you have to consider that if the parking time is 20% longer than 20% less people will be able to park. Even 1hr isn’t enough to go to a restaurant or swimming. So if that’s what you want you really need to park somewhere else. There really isn’t many spot anyway so if people had 1hr it wouldn’t do much for local trade. I’d argue it would be worse for those businesses that need more drop ins.

Parking on Dartmouth Road should be 30 minutes for people to pop into shops. You want longer then Park across the tracks at your leisure, I won’t go down the time it takes to get from there as it has been done to death. Disabled, I am sure provision will he made for you.

Some interesting points above - but my question was whether (given that the residents of Thorpewood Ave are unlikely to get a CPZ) slightly longer parking times on Dartmouth Road would help them.

Parking restrictions on Dartmouth Road and routinely ignored, inconsiderate parking is a fact of life. Some people are idiots.

I suspect that most of the people who park on the lower part of Thorpewood Avenue during the day are either commuters who drive in from the outer suburbs to get a cheaper journey from a zone 3 station, or people who work locally - teachers at Holy Trinity school?

Michael

Can you tell us more about this, or tell us how to find out? Who is the “we” working with the architects?

There seems to be dedicated group of volunteers trying to make things work (doing the Council’s job?) and I do appreciate that. But how does anyone, who isn’t actually part of the conversation, find out what’s happening?

‘We’ are committee members of the Forest Hill Society and Sydenham Society. The ideas are in the early stages and when there is something to show we will share it with members of the Forest Hill Society and the wider public.
At present this is quite a speculative project and we are lucky to have local architects who are interested in pursuing this project. It might not lead anywhere but it is well worth trying out different ideas to see what might work.

So I wrote to the Highways Dept asking whether they might consider extending the 30-minute limit on parking on Dartmouth Road. This is the reply I got today.

Thank you for your enquiry and I apologise for the long delay in getting back to you.

The short stay bays on Dartmouth Road, with a time limit of 30 minutes, are there to encourage a quick turn-around of parking to assist the business of local traders. Increasing the maximum stay of these bays is not something we would consider at this time, as it would not be in keeping with the purpose of the provision.

I am sorry to have to disappoint you.

I’d be interested to hear if others think that a longer limit than 30 minutes would be a good or a bad thing.

Thank you Dave for trying.

In my opinion, a maximum of 45 minutes, given the limited number of bays, would do it. That, in conjunction with Lewisham giving up to 2hrs free in the Perry Vale car park and with the 2hrs option that we already have in the Sainsburys car park - IF IT’S SHOUTED LOUD ENOUGH (so that people take advantage of these concessions in the town centre) - can help the traders immensely.