How was the Overground today folks? Didn’t chance it and walked to Catford Bridge to get the 0732 to Charing Cross, which was packed.
I usually have to take the Overground on a Wednesday around 0700 though - how was it? Or should I look at a Plan B?
I didn’t even want to face the Overground/Tube option, so I took the 185 to Kings College Hospital and changed onto the 68 to Aldwych. I got on the 185 at 06.53… it was actually okay. Took almost 1.5 hours to get to work but I had a seat on both buses and listened to Christmas choons all the way, so I arrived into the office about 40 minutes later than normal but feeling quite relaxed and festive!! However, I am also curious as to what the overground/Jubilee line was like.
I got the 0724 Overground at Sydenham. It was pretty unpleasant on board but I think everyone on the platform got on, a few people left on the platform at Forest Hill though even at that time
got the Overground around 8ish had to let 2 Overgrounds to go past until I could get on a 3rd then had to queue at Canda water again to and managed to get on a 3rd train to London Bridge, added an extra 30 mins on to my journey…
Definitely busy this morning.
I’m considering a journey via Catford Bridge for my journey home this evening. It takes 10 minutes longer but seems worth it.
The overground services originating from crystal palace are a lot quieter! They fill up quickly after FH but at least you can get on!
Went to Catford as I need to get to Blackfriars anyway and got a seat and all that. Will not try the Overground over the next few days.
I got the Overground from HOP at about 8.15. First two trains were rammed, but the third was fairly civilised (no seats but space near doors / between cars). It was packed by NXG but everyone seemed to be dealing with it with a good degree of civility.
I got the overground from HOP to Canada Water this morning at around 08:15 and it was pretty much the same as normal. It was busy, but that route is always busy.
I sometimes find it faster to go back 1 or 2 stops from HOP to FH or Sydenham and then get on there.
his morning could not get on the 7.51 but next one was ok.
I have to go to Croydon tomorrow. No rain forecast so I am going to go on my bike ! oh yes.
No extra trains on the Overground tomorrow. Everyone will have to pile on the normal services.
Caught the 185 to Catford Bridge. Hopped on a train direct into Charing Cross. Granted I left it to around 9am before heading out but no crowds and loads of seats. Of course there was the usual delays but that’s pretty much par for the course these days.
So strike away me pretties. You aint going to get me down.
working on a chorus
Can someone tell me why when the FH trains dont have conductors they are on strike?
I got a train from FH at 08:15 (not the first one I’d seen stopping at the station, but the first with any space at all). It was pretty busy in the 4th carriage (or is it a car?) but I was genuinely touched by the fact that people were speaking to each other, trying to make the effort to move down and make space for others and be reasonably cheerful about the whole thing. Few, if any, people were able to board at HOP, Brockley or NXG but after Canada Water the train was actually quiet.
Doesn’t this demonstrate the demand for more commuter-type trains into LB rather than fewer, and underline that the Overground doesn’t have capacity to deal with reductions in the Southern service as planned?
I have a Christmas lunch at St Pauls at 1:30. I imagine getting there will be straight forward. Getting home after a few light ales tonight may be interesting though.
Cause the ASLEF drivers are on strike too. On Monday it is only the RMT conductors so there should still be Southern services through FH (I think).
Yes, but as we dont have conductors why is our part of Southern on strike? It’s not about safety on our line as we dont have conductors?
Cause there are no drivers to drive the trains.
The current strike dates are:
Monday 19 to Tuesday 20 December (RMT conductors’ strike)
Saturday 31 December to Monday 2 January (RMT conductors’ strike)
Monday 9 to Saturday 14 January (ASLEF & RMT drivers’ strike)
Basically when its RMT conductor strikes we see some Southern trains (but expect a lot of cancellations due to the drivers also doing an overtime ban so trains in wrong places etc), when its a drivers strike, its zilch Southern trains, so its Overground only from F Hill/HOP (or use other stations like Crofton Park, Catford).
No sign of anything positive from the ACAS talks I’m afraid (no surprise though)
So why are the drivers are on strike if it about safety and not having conductors?
OK, I am being obtuse. We dont have conductors on our route, we have 10 carriage trains already and no conductors. So why are they striking?
Let me google that for you.
http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/144625/why_aslef_is_taking_strike_action_on_southern_rail/
I have seen that and heard the Aslef gent sprouting it on TV. Still doesnt answer my question though does it.
I was hoping for informed education on here. However my office is on St. John’s Lane so will pop in and ask them. Mind you, they are usually in Burger and Lobster so will try there first.
I appreciate this is only tenuously related to the topic, but can someone explain the rationale for the New Cross branch of the London Overground, which usually operates the same number of trains as the WC, CP and CJ branches despite carrying FAR fewer passengers. The number of evenings I’ve been waiting on a dangerously busy Canada Water platform for a train home only to see a NC train appear empty, remain empty because no one is going to NC and then depart while the platform swells further with people wanting the other services.
The ONE tiny positive of this ridiculous strike has been that TFL cancelled the NC services on certain days and replaced with (I think) extra CP services. When residents of NC already have NC Gate station a stones throw away do they really need a completely separate (and terminating) station? My suggestion would be that with ever increasing demands for capacity on the Overground NC should be reduced to 1 train per hour during peak hours (7-9; 5-7) and those services should be replaced by an extra train on each of the other 3 routes.
The most reasonable argument that I heard was that it enables a higher density of trains on the central part of the line. This may well not reflect actual demand at the present day, but it may have been appropriate in the past.
Personally, I would love TFL to have a Overground train just running a shuttle service between New Cross and Surrey Quays all day. Also, rename New Cross as Goldsmiths, or anything else.
Solidarity? Not uncommon in industrial action for union members to come out in support even if they personally are not affected by whatever the issue is.
I suspect it’s because it’s the employees/drivers of the Southern franchise of Govia Thameslink (the parent company) that are on strike. I don’t think it would be possible for only a part of the employees/drivers to be on strike… I could be wrong, however.
Isn’t that now illegal?
Same employer, same job, I don’t think that’s illegal, is it?
Thinking about @Londondrz’s question: is it possible drivers work on more than one line? And presumably if the change came in it would change the job description of all the drivers, whether they currently work with a conductor or not.
It’s illegal to strike in ‘solidarity’ alone, but you can strike if you feel cuts in other areas will affect your ability to do your job.
Unusually detailed view from the Transport Secretary on what he believes to be the reason for the strike.
As you’d expect, not much in common with the Aslef position…
The New Cross trains were used on Tuesday and Wednesday to provide extra capacity to Crystal Palace, which was clearly needed again today, considering the picture of the queue at Brockley when the gates were closed.
On a normal non-strike day on Southern, it’s frustrating to see those New Cross trains carrying more air than passengers when the West Croydon/Crystal Palace/Clapham Junction trains are packed.
Just to add to excellent posts by @Joey_H, it is the government who get the ticket revenue on Southern and also pay the compensation. So, unlike ScotRail, It strikes me that Southern have much less of a commercial incentive to reach a compromise as a result.
Thanks for the excellent insight @Joey_H. It’s very rare on local forums that an insider makes a share like this and I appreciate you taking the time to do so.
Thank you, excellent post.
Though as a franchise how much day to day control does DfT exert? Could DfT be exerting undue influence on Southern here?
Southern/Govia Thameslink Railway have a different type of franchise contract with the DfT. They get paid a fee regardless if they run any trains or not.
Alas why GTR are imposing all of these changes on their staff. If GTR and the DfT win this battle, see guards removed from SWT, Southeastern etc. It’s a Tory ideological war being played on Southern with staff and commuters in the middle.
I may agree to some of that if it wasn’t for the fact that some of the trains don’t have guards. Can’t replace guards you don’t have which is why I find these strikes a farce. Both the strikers and Southern need a good kick in the nads.
Apparently ASLEF did originally agree to DOO on the Southern Metro services years ago, but this is when trains were largely four carriage only. Since then, some Metro services have increased to eight and now ten car services as passenger usage has increased.
The cameras on the Class 377 units used aren’t exactly great and there are still blind spots at some stations outside London which make it unsuitable.
It’s also worth noting that the so-called ‘independent’ board which declared that DOO is safe across Southern is part-owned by GTR’s parent company GoVia.
It’s fine to criticise DfT policies here but can we keep speculation about party ideology in Politicos please.
Says the Tory with the blinkers on.
Being pissed off with the current rail situation is not something which I felt was a party political point. More about ‘get it sorted and now’. No need to finger point at 'tory Boy’s as his politics are not the same as yours. Let’s move on.
I don’t use trains for work so ner ner ne ner ner 
Happy traveling all, get moving to the next stop & hit Politicos on the way!
It’s very much to do with this government in their fight to break the unions. Thatcher did it to the miners in the 80s, Murdoch with the press unions.
Having a 20th century style trade union which supports people who don’t have privilege is very much against Tory principles.
If the Tories in their guise as the DfT get away with this, it’ll spread to Southeastern, SWT who still have guards on their local metro services in SW London etc.
It’s no coincidence that Chris Grayling rejected TfL’s offer to operate Southeastern while a Labour mayor is in power. It’s everything to do with ideology and nothing to do with common sense.
I think these last few posts need to be put in Politicos @moderators but remind all they can opt in anytime regardless of status. So can do straight away if they want too.
@anon5422159 - there’s a bit of a double standard here. While you call people out for criticising the government on ideological principles, you make an overtly political point yourself earlier:
At the end of the day, you run the forum, and it’s your choice, but if you choose to editorialise as you moderate, you’re not going to have the balance of views that you previously said you wanted.
That’s a fair point and I have just removed the editorial from my post.
In future, rather than moderate a debate that I’ve posted into, I’ll aim to invite a different moderator to do so. And the other moderators are only too happy to moderate my posts (trust me!)
Yep! 
Well. If you were travelling to Horsham today from LBG you’d be effed. All services cancelled due to lack of drivers. I’ve been here 25 minutes and still waiting for a FOH train.
More Southern problems lol
