Moped mafia and reporting

Is there anyway we can engage effectively with the local police on the wave of moped crime that seems to be occuring? I know they would like us to phone 101 or 999, but frankly, this is both impractical and pointless. I’ve tried to alert them via twitter, but they seem to be more focussed on feeding the information through the official channels than creating a repository of information which could be used to build up a picture.

For example, I saw a red Vespa going down Perry Vale at 3.30pm today and the passenger had no helmet. It was side on, so I don’t know much about the vehicle other than the colour and the fact that it had two people on it, one of whom was a young black man with no helmet. I tweeted this information to @MPSPerryVale and was asked to call 101 in reply. Having called 101 before for my own purposes, I know the wait time is a good 10 minutes and the chances of getting an officer out are nil. As a self-employed father of two, I have far better things to do at 3.30 on a Monday afternoon than wait for a disinterested police representative to log a call whilst the miscreants in question were already halfway to Bromley. However, rather than just getting on with my life, I thought a tweet would at least log the incident publicly and provide information on the vague off-chance that someone somewhere was trying to build up a profile of the neer-do-wells.

In response to my complete disinterest at calling 101, an officer did offer to meet and discuss, so rather than using it as a springboard for my own personal gripes, I thought I’d use the hive mind to see if we can find a better way of reporting these events to police than wasting all our lvies trying to call a non-emergency number so that someone can say they’ve received a call. Building up a profile (via twitter?) is clearly a better use of police time than answering calls on seemingly random events in my view. Does anyone have any alternative suggestions?

I’ve just found this site for reporting traffic incidents:

https://beta.met.police.uk/report/report-a-road-traffic-incident/

I started logging something bike-related I saw on Friday, to test it, but must have struck a particular combination on my keyboard and lost all the information I had input. Not sure I can be bothered doing it again…

Anyway, back to your question. I can understand both sides re the use of Twitter. We want something quick and easy for those ‘not important enough to call 999 or 101 but might be useful for the police to know’ pieces of information. The police want to use Twitter as a means of outward communication with maybe a bit of lighthearted interaction with other users. Practicably, we can’t expect them to monitor their Twitter feed throughout the day, on the off-chance that a member of the public has logged something important. They don’t have dedicated social media staff who spend all day on Facebook and Twitter. And they would have to log the information in their own systems which would be administratively time-consuming. Plus the information may not have specific details that they need.

That reporting website is asking for information that the police know to be relevant (eg road conditions, amount of daylight etc - although that’s more relevant to a traffic incident rather than suspicious bike riders) plus the burden is on the public to enter the information, not a 101 call handler whose time would be better spent dealing with calls that need a response rather than typing up information someone is communicating via telephone.

In the past I’ve e-mailed PerryVale.snt@met.police.uk with that type of information, but thinking about it now I’m not sure how integrated they are with other police departments, eg would the information in the incident reporting website be relayed to just the traffic police and not the local neighbourhood team?

I see there was a Twitter post asking for sightings to be reported, via 101. Don’t think I would bother ringing with my ‘just in case it’s useful’ information from Friday evening to maybe I will give that website another go.

So I retyped my entry into the traffic incident reporting website. Tip: if you’re just reporting a sighting, delete the bit for ‘Other parties involved’ and just move straight to the text box to enter details of the incident. And maybe type the text into Notepad or something first, in case you accidentally delete it like I did!

And this is what I saw at about 8.15pm on Friday evening:

I was walking south along Perry Vale and two bikes drove past me heading north. The first bike had two people; the pillion passenger wasn’t wearing a helmet, he had a black balaclava on. A minute or two later I became aware that they were now driving south but had driven into the access road in front of Perrystreete flats and were driving along there. They emerged back on to Perry Vale and the first bike rejoined the road but the second bike drove along the pavement for a short distance and then they both turned right into Dacres Road.

I agree, I am fed up with the amount of balaclava mopeds along my road. I don’t feel like its really being tackled in a good way/ at all. I will use this reporting site though from now on, so thank you for highlighting it to me.

Its such a balaclava/moped cut through along: Stanstead Road - Beadnell Road - Garthorne Road - Grierson Road- across Honor Oak Park to other other side of Grierson Road. No car can go that way because of the stop gates so they know they wont be followed, and its off the main road so probably actually faster!

I received this by email from @CroftonParkSNT (who recommend the same website as suggested by @blushingsnail):

The problem is, these mopeds most often don’t have plates. I was passed dangerously by a moped on Sydenham Road today and watched it run lights and cut across traffic. No plates.

Yes, its becoming rife. My hubby is always on the look out now because hes a biker. He just calls 101. There was one guy he thought looked dodgy at fh highlighted it to passing police. They nicked him as he tried to run.

I’ve had two rather frightening moped magia experiences, the first being about a year ago in Clapham South, we were stopped at red traffic lights and around ten bikes pulled up either side of us banging on the window wanting us to drive through red lights to allow them through. Then more recently about two weeks ago I was walking towards my car parked outside Crofton park station which is a one way street and nearly got mowed down by one of them speeding down the middle of the road the wrong way! They set out to intimidate - surely this is classed as threatening behaviour and should be cause for arrest?! Also just want to mention to all the ladies please be aware when walking home at night I was followed and approached by a weird guy walking from ladywell station to Crofton park station where my car was parked last night around 11pm.

I think we need Sergeant Biddle to comment on this thread. ARE YOU THERE SARGE !?

Doesn’t seem to relate to local issues but good to see…

Not quite local but almost. Video doing the rounds of 2 moped drivers pushing a cyclist off his bike which they then attempted to steal. This was outside the old police station in Penge High Street.
Cyclist is in hospital with a broken foot: riders got away but registration of one moped is clearly shown, and their faces, albeit mostly covered.

Someone had apparently seen them earlier and dialled 999 but don’t know what happened in response.

This was at 6 50pm yester day in broad daylight and in front of quite a few passers by.

On Facebook-SE23 mums today:

Warning: A moped attack just took place on Brockley Rise at the bottom of Lowther Hill. I heard screams from my garden and ran round. An older lady and her daughter were attacked by two men on mopeds whilst they were crossing the road, the older woman was knocked down and pinned to the ground in the middle of the road, her daughter (in her 20s) was attacked with a penknife. The mopeds then sped off up Lowther Hill. They’re not badly hurt, talking but in massive shock obviously. Police on their way now.

I read that as well. I pretty much live right there. I suspect they go up Lowther Hill so if need be they can shoot across Blythe Hill

I’m not sure what the answer is but it does feel like we have reached a tipping point.

It’s the same as the London riots. The police were told not to use force and not to engage rioters. So they took over the city for a couple of days. On the Sunday night the PM rushed through some sort of order that permitted police to use force/batons and guaranteed they would not be prosecuted. Guess what… The riots ended almost immediately.

There were a few other factors like weather. But I reckon that was the main one.

Did anyone see the video of the thief on a bicycle and slammed the car door in to him to knock him down? Police should be permitted to knock down moped thieves with their vehicles. If they suffer serious injury or death then that should not be on the police. If they want to mount the pavement with a moped, that’s a deadly weapon. Then they will know the consequences.

guaranteed they would not be prosecuted

Did this really happen?

No. I can’t find a source. The immune from prosecution part I got wrong. But they were authorised to use force if necessary on the Sunday. But not before that.

Another incident here

The Penge incident is in the Standard:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/moment-brave-passersby-foil-violent-moped-mugging-in-london-a3590136.html%3Famp

Mmmm, moped with two idiots v just over a ton of Porsche. I know who would win that one.

One of the muggers has been arrested and is in police custody.

From where he will either be released without charge due to lack of evidence or treated to a £300 fine by a local magistrate because anyone under the age of 24 is treated as a victim of circumstance by our criminal justice system.

We’ve had a few comments here on policing and criminal justice. An interesting discussion to be had, but maybe elsewhere.

We’ve got a genuine social issue in this area and you want to close down any debate on causes because it might be a bit “political”. Normally I would bite my tongue (as I have done on many occasions) and go back to talking about the lovely new shops that the high street is getting, etc., but on this occasion I think the issue is not party political or even that controversial, but the difference between making this place habitable and successful.

The criminal justice system is a key factor in these events and I think this is a perfectly appropriate forum for its discussion.

I don’t want to shut down the debate at all. It’s a vital local issue and debate on the actual policing of it correctly belongs here. Any specific cases of these moped drivers getting let off? Give us the details, let’s see how it relates to our situation locally. But general speculation along the lines of ‘and then they all get let off’ isn’t very helpful. The OP asks an important question: what can we as a community do to help the police get this issue under control?

It would be nice if the local police could engage a little more on this issue. If they have and I’ve missed it then I apologise, but I haven’t seen anything.

My limited understanding of the problem is that one of the significant root causes seems to be the widespread supply of stolen mopeds. Reporting number plates of mopeds used in crime only really helps if that moped is either registered to the perpetrator (unlikely!) or is used repeatedly for crime. This latter point seems to be crucial because if there is an endless supply of stolen mopeds (or fake number plates) then there seems to be almost no risk: they go out, commit a crime wearing helmet/balaclava, then ditch the moped or change the plates, then repeat, repeat, repeat.

So I’d like to know what the police strategy is? They don’t seem to be willing or able to physically pursue the perpetrators (perhaps more police on motorbikes is a solution?), so what are they doing to limit the supply of stolen mopeds or fake number plates?

Finally, I really think a fundamental cause of this problem is the cuts to local beat police numbers. The response time to local incidents like this must be a lot slower than it used to be. There seems to be a growing pressure on public to take matters into their own hands or be have-a-go heroes because the police are nowhere to be seen.

Isn’t this a London-wide issue, though? There’s an article here summarising the fact that 11,300 incidents were reported across London in the last year. Presumably our local policing teams will be constrained by whatever the wider rules of engagement are on this. It’s also worth noting that the number of these crimes increased 7-fold between 2015 and 2016 according to figures quoted here. Not sure how the Met are meant to react to that sort of sea change.

The guidance which has previously been mentioned from our SNT is to report any mopeds you see which appear to be stashed. We should all be doing that.

Operation Venice is the initiative which the Met has been running to reduce motorcycle-enabled crime. Has anyone been able to find any recent updates from the Met on this?

As an addendum to this, I reported the crashed Honda SH125 which has been abandoned on the footpath at the A205 end of Kemble Road to Lewisham MPS this evening. It looks like it’s past being used in any crimes, but every little helps…

Interesting article in The Guardian here

explaining why it is difficult for police to pursue these criminals

Once again, the Met are out blaming victims. Apparently, it’s all our own fault for buying a vehicle that’s “too easy to steal”. No doubt the manufacturers of phones are also to blame for making phones so lightweight and portable and jewellery shops just need to ditch windows and doors in favour of solid steel or concrete barriers. If jewellery shops insist on continuing to display their products to all and sundry, then the police can’t be held responsible for what follows.

I agree that owners should lock bikes up, but blaming the entire epidemic on victims of crime is basically a strategic choice by the Met to justify doing little. I can confirm that gangs of moped thieves snatching phones are not yet a problem elsewhere in the UK or Europe which undermines his point that its the vehicle manufacturer and owners fault somewhat as the same vehicles are on sale elsewhere.

I read the article somewhat differently. Head of the Met’s Operation Venice notes that mopeds are easy to steal Any apparent blame of Moped owners originates from the Motorcycle Crime Reduction Group, a special interest group including rider groups and some manufacturers.

Kevin Howells, the chairman of the MCRG, said they were “shocked” by the results. “In some parking bays you’ve got 30 bikes taking up those spaces and no one’s locked their bike to the street furniture,” he said. “It’s easy pickings. Maybe there should be some legislation so that people are penalised. If you’re not going to lock your bike up, that one crime could result in 10 more crimes up the road.”

My comments were likely coloured by Supt Mark Payne going on Radio 4 and also saying that the vehicles were “too easy to steal”. He has said this in numerous media articles and interviews.

I think the article was a balanced one and listened well to the concerns of the police, who are hamstrung by a legal system that protects the “rights” of violent yoof and ties the hands of the police.

When the law is changed to protect police officers who tackle these little scrotes, we’ll see results.

Of course, the Metropolitan Police Federation is a representative of the officers and in this I support their desire to engage the offenders. The Met itself is clearly not willing to resource the issue as vehicle crime is all the owners fault.

Are they too easy to steal though?

If so I have to wonder why moped owners aren’t demanding a better product. There is the cost of replacement to the insurance industry and certainly rising insurance premiums to all moped users.

The police must also have a broader interest. Moped crime aside, that is still almost 15,000 vehicle thefts in the last year leading to almost 15,000 stolen property reports and whatever administrative and investigative burden that extra 30% increase brings.

Why don’t bikes come with immobilisers as standard? Cars have had these for a very long time.

I don’t think the Met is blaming the victims (bike owners) so much as the industry. How many mopeds come with an ignition immobiliser as standard? How much would the cost add to a new bike? Seems like a change worth making.

I think in the long-term this is what will make bike manufacturers change and make bikes harder to steal. Insurance premiums will go up and up and will result in less sales, which will drive improvement in this area. It can’t be just the insurers and manufacturers of course, it needs the owners to do their bit as well of course, and most important some (or more) police resource put into catching, but more importantly, deterring this kind of the theft, and the resultant crime from it.

Any vehicle two burly blokes can pick up and chuck in the back of a van is “easy to steal”. The “too” is a value judgement. Bicycles are also “easy to steal” and I’m sure the thieves will go back to using them once mopeds become unfashionable again.

As for immobilisers, many come with immobilisers but these get stolen too as hacking them and rechipping them is just as easy as it is with a car. The reason immobilisers work better on cars is that the thief can’t do this at their leisure as they can once they’ve pushed the motorcycle down the Old Kent Road (as happened with my wife’s bike some years ago) or slung it in the back of a van.

Also, the average age of a motorcycle is 13 years, so once the industry have made these “unstealable” motorcycles, they’ll still be 1.4 million “stealable” motorcycles available to thieves for the next decade.

Also worth repeating above: THIS IS A LONDON PROBLEM! Motorcycles and scooters elsewhere in the UK and Europe are identical and don’t suffer this same problem.

Yet. (plus some extra to get over 5 characters).

I’m still waiting for the Met to complain about the menace of “phone enabled crime” made easier by the fact that most phones are “too easy to steal”.

You have a choice, lock your bike up well or it MAY go. I see many many high valued bikes unlocked bar for their steering lock. An opportunist thief will look at a bike like that and rub their hands in glee. Sure, a disk lock and a good chain and lock can be cut but it takes time. A good lock (disk lock, chain etc) is a deterrent, not a sure fire way of stopping your bike going but every little helps.

BTW, it is by no means a London only problem, I belong to a motorcycle forum with over 11,000 members, bike theft is everywhere.

Theft is a problem for the UK generally, moped enabled crime is a London problem (although the motorcycle theft problem in London is statistically worse than the rest of the UK with around half of thefts nationally occuring in the capital).

As for locks, they work really well when thieves don’t have angle-grinders to cut them off, or acid to throw in your face when you’re using the vehicle. As I said, I’m not against locking your bike up and would encourage everyone to do so, but it doesn’t solve the immediate problem and is hardly a deterrent any more. My contention is that the Met’s response is to pass the buck to the industry and users in a way which they don’t (or wouldn’t be permitted to) for other types of crime.

I think the police can’t do right for doing wrong. Take the case of the young man who has died at the weekend, apparently he died with something stuck in his mouth, (from his history I wonder what that could have been?) & was probably what the policeman was trying to get him to spit out.
They put the responsibility of kicking up your bike, being careful where you use your phone on the consumer to try & help them keep crime down. I agree about the acid etc, but again shopkeepers have got to be asked to be sensible, but it’s also an in-line privken isn’t it?
As I’ve said before if it is a ‘yoof/s’ involved, then what about the parents being involved, they are their responsibility up until a certain age surely. Same applies to these awful stabbings.

Sorry that should have said locking & problem ( typing too fast & not checking )

If, as a non moped driver, I might ask a question. My wife is thinking of getting one - maybe even a little electric one.
What can we do to protect it against theft? My only answer is too bring it round the back into our garage and lock it in here. Maybe an electric one isn’t really as desirable and would get left alone but even locking them up on the street seems pointless as most locks are fairly trivial to break - (having lost many bicycles over the years). What can one do??

Years ago when my dad was younger, he had a moped that he used for work (back in the 80s). My parents had a ground floor maisonette with a nearby row of sheds that he kept it in. There was a phase when teens would just break the padlock off the door & be seen walking past their window with the moped! He always got it back, but back then it was seen as kids causing mischief not using it for muggings. So I think if you lock it up in your garage, which seems the sensible thing to do, make sure you have a cast iron padlock on the bike & your garage door as well.

Electric scooters are far less desirable to thieves as a) you can’t charge them up and ride off without paying as you would steal petrol and b) you can’t use the lithium ion batteries to make acid you can squirt at people as easily as you can a lead-acid battery.

However, insurers would still want you to lock it up so a garage would be good and a decent sized chain to lock it to a ground anchor which would need to be installed. I assume she’ll be riding it somewhere rather than just on joy rides, so ensure that there is adequate security at the other end too, i.e. out of sight and physically secured to something.

You may be right but it is better to have a lock than not. My security cost me just shy of £500 but then I had spent a LOT of money for my bike.

BTW, the police saying the onus is on the owner to secure their bike, the same can be said for insurers and houses. Mine would not insure me unless I had an alarm, five lever mortice locks as well as window locks. It was my choice, a good few hundred pounds on security and I got insurance. If I didnt want to do it they wouldn’t insure me and then it was up to me.

Bike security was paramount to me and despite having as much as I could I still had bikes stolen. If someone wants your bike badly enough they will get it.

In Japan, people rarely lock their bicycles up, so it is possible to live in a world without fear of vehicle theft.

Having lived in Japan for 5 years I can safely say that Japan and the UK are very very very different when it comes to crime.

Thieves spend 10 minutes cutting lock. Police arrive after 12 minutes. If only the owner had locked the bike up?

And somewhere else thieves didn’t bother. You can leave your bike unlocked, I certainly wouldnt.

A post was split to a new topic: Intimidation of Police by Identity Politickers

I saw a young guy come out of a house recently, looked angelic then he pulled on a balaclava hopped on his moped and sped away. Since then I have seen him coming and going from that house. I couldn’t believe it! Very close to where I live.

This is in a very well known road in honor oak. I keep wondering by to try and check the plate but seems to park in different places so never sure it’s the right moped

Please at least report it to 101!!

Oh I did, sorry should of said. Not very interested hence trying to get the plate details if there’s one on it. I know his bloody house which is the annoyance.

In addition to @Moto_Hodder’s comments, you should try and keep the chain off the ground. If you search you tube you will see how quickly people can get through the most expensive/ heaviest chains with bolt cutters, but it is much harder if they are off the ground - as they can’t use the ground as leverage so easily. This is important at home, but also when at work/ away from home. Nothing is foolproof, but you are trying to make the vehicle less appealing / more bother - i.e. so they nick the one next to you, not yours sadly ;-(

I don’t think the answer is simple, but is multi-pronged:

If you are a biker, your premiums are going up and your bikes are getting nicked, so it is in your interest to shout about it. Consider joining ‘We Ride London’ which feels like a more useful/effective pressure group than MAG has been to date. Certainly read their Facebook posts and links and consider some of the options/ pressures they are applying.

Secondly complain as much as possible to manufacturers. Bikes aren’t only stolen in London. There seems to be more moped crime here, but bikes are stolen to break into parts or ship overseas from all over the UK. Manufacturers could do more and we should try and push them to up their game.

Thirdly, police need to be protected from career ending consequences if they go after the criminals. I think everyone has a role to play here - the more you report issues, highlight concerns and the press gets hold of it (as the Evening Standard seems to have only just done in last couple of months), the more the political will will sway to amend some of the necessary legislation to protect the police.

Fourthly there are few police with the appropriate training to chase mopeds/ bikes. The manufacturers could support more funding in this area.

Keep being vocal is my slogan of the day.

Around 2am there was the loud sound of bikes racing around. Very annoying.

This article from the Beeb covers the issue fairly and reiterates my point that this is largely a London issue.

I disagree but arguing the point doesnt stop it.

These guys were recommended to me by a bikie mate. http://securityforbikes.com/

Perhaps this is not so much a political issue as a need for people to back their claims up with some good evidence?

The BBC article has statistics which show that London is disproportionately affected by motorcycle and scooter theft. Just because copycats are starting to spring up, doesn’t mean that the original point doesn’t stand.

What this shows me is that London continues to innovate and lead the rest of the country.

And congratulations to Starman

It also shows that withiout a doubt, the scooter and motorcycle are the best and quickest way to get around London.

Those look OK. The bigger, thicker and more robust the better. And dont forget a very good chain and a very good lock. It will be very expensive but worth it.

Another good idea is a rape alarm that has a removable pin to set it off. I had one on my bike with the pin cord attached to a ground anchor, bike was moved, pin came out and 120db of siren.

Indeed, a brilliant method of transport. I just wish my biking days had not been cut short.

Thanks - I’ll check them out…

Also, for those who may not be allowed to install a ground anchor have a look on YouTube for ‘bucket’o’crete’.

Smartwater, microdot etc has been around for years so not sure why they are that excited.

increasing discussion today at national level about the risks for police in chasing moped riders.

I think that article’s emphasis on government cuts is misleading (and no proof as to whether it’s correlation / causation).

For a bit of balance, here’s an article that’s written by a journalist, not an opposition MP:

Sounds to me like there’s two key problems - police policy, and choices made by the judiciary.

Apparently a lot of moped criminals are as young as 12 years old and police are unwilling to arrest children of that age.

Why could the issue be caused by a combination of these problems; policy policy and government cuts? I’m not convinced it is so black and white. And to be fair, the Shadow Policing Minister also spoke at great lengths - greater actually - about the national guidelines which restrict the police ability to respond.

The facts are that crime is in the ascendancy against a back drop of budget cuts in the police force. It is easy to draw a correlation though I suspect improvements could be made in how government and police allocate their resources.

For now I’m more inclined to listen to the advice of police professionals rather than an opposition MP or journalist, both of which are pretty wet behind the ears.

Asssistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt, head of Territorial Policing, said: “London is one of the safest global cities in the world. There are few others with such low rates of serious crime, such as murder and gun crime.

“Similar to the rest of England and Wales, crime rates in London are rising, but many of these are still at a much lower level than five years ago and are against the backdrop of significant reductions in resources.

Earlier this year the outgoing Met chief Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe criticised government cuts to policing saying that the warning lights were flashing after official figures confirmed an increase in murder and knife crime.

Your linked article emphasises that gun crime and knife crime in London are on the ascendancy.

It could be largely due to the budget cuts.

Or it could be a combination of cuts and policy.

Or it could be largely due to policy, driven by bad choices made at the top (including in government):

methode-sundaytimes-prod-web-bin-8b6fe29a-747a-11e7-b8e2-c49520e209441370×913 237 KB

Indeed. Here’s the Crime Survey for England and Wales:

CrimeinUK899×511 8.73 KB

If people want to speculate about a causal relationship between government policy and crime, let’s do it our opt-in #politicos:general-politics category, to be fair to those who wish to avoid such debates.

And also notes:

There was a total of 774,737 crimes recorded in the capital last year - compared to 740,933 in the previous year. a rise of 4.5 per cent.

The figures, which did not include cyber crimes, showed increases in the number of muggings, sex offences, thefts and violent offences.

There was a 26 per cent leap in the rate of motor vehicle thefts and a 13 per cent rise in personal robberies.

But I agree. A heated debate on the causal effects of government cuts to police budgets is best discussed over in Dragonstone. However, some discussion is still relevant in this section on crime? How can you discuss one potential issue - constraints on police officers - without discussing others. Crime and politics have much in common but are not mutually inclusive, right? As long as it contributes to the discussion on moped mafia?

I’d strongly suggest:

• Speculation about effects of government policy and commentary on overall national crime --> #politicos:general-politics

• Non-partisan factual posts on London policing in relation to moped crime, reports of moped crime, moped thefts etc --> This topic.

Moto_Hodder and everyone who subscribed to this topic on local moped crime is getting emailed every time we post. Let’s be fair to them and stay on topic.

I think that article’s emphasis on government cuts is misleading (and no proof as to whether it’s correlation / causation).
For a bit of balance, here’s an article that’s written by a journalist, not an opposition MP:

My post noted that there is increasing discussion at national level which fact I thought might be of interest to the readers of this thread who have discussed it at a local level and presumably would like to see it escalated to those with the power to consider the issue and lead action. The article was by a shadow minister in the Opinion/Comment section of a national newspaper, so of course among the facts it contains views which may be open to challenge. In line with your forum guidelines I offered no political comment on it myself. Presumably you did not think your own comment at all political!

Getting back to the original theme of reporting moped crime:

https://twitter.com/MopedSpotted

Good to see stinger being deployed against bikes too now. The police are trying, but not always easy to catch them in the act.

Especially when you are faced with morons like this.

Totally agree. Demonstrates a new bolder approach (stingers deployed against bikes will undoubtedly lead to injuries).

Shows that the rights of criminals to a safe road environment are no longer placed above the rights of law-abiding road users.

Good on the police for taking this step. It’ll make criminals think twice about motorbike and moped crime.

Only downside of stinger is getting it set up in time, and in a place where it cannot be avoided. This is the tough bit. But great to see it works when the time is right.

Maybe its time to install some remotely activated stingers on roads in known hotspots! (I’m kidding)

I thought about sharing that article too, but I couldn’t see any substantive action being taken here by the Mayor - just a photo opportunity for Khan to pose with some important looking people?

What is Khan’s “zero tolerance” policy? What’s he going to change?

looks as though the mayor is telling us he is aware of our concerns. And the action is that he is using his office to ask for a coordinated plan to be produced by the relevant agencies with hands on knowledge of the issues. Sounds a good approach to me.

‘For the first time ever, these partners are joining forces to forge a plan of action, including looking at what more can be done to prevent thieves from stealing mopeds to commit these crimes in the first place.’

That was my takeaway. And my reason for posting.

Yes but what are they going to do and how are they going to do it. Scooter crime, both theft of and useage in crime, is not new. It’s been going on for years. What will Khan do differently?

If we are discussing what does and doesn’t make a thread interesting, can I say one of my pet peeves is people assuming that the powers-that-be, whether the council or the mayor or central government are going to screw things up / get things wrong when we’re talking about THINGS THAT HAVEN’T YET HAPPENED.

How about we wait for a specific policy document rather than bemoaning the vagueness of a press release, which by their nature are broadbrush?

Pretty sure that the authorisation of use of stinger, and its subsequent deployment on two recent known occasions, says they are doing something. Changes are happening, as Rachael says, wait for a proper press release to see what is being done and how.

As for the initial theft of them, I’m not sure what the police or Mayor are meant to be doing better.

The authorisation happened two years ago according to this article from back in July (two months before the Mayor’s photo op):

https://themcpc.co.uk/index.php/2017/07/25/stingers-deployed-to-stop-moped-crime-the-times/

If the Mayor wanted to do something substantive, he’d come out on record and say he supports the Police taking strong action (e.g. stingers vs mopeds) against violent criminals, and that he recognises that criminals may be injured in the process, but that they forfeitted their rights to safety when they chose to commit crime. It shouldn’t be just the Police Chiefs putting their reputation on the line for making this decision.

The Mayor should be a thought leader - he helps set the tone of public discourse.

At the moment, there are a lot of communities in London that disrespect and sometimes hate the Police. Khan should use his position to defend the Police robustly against this organised latent uprising. When spurious legal cases and complaints are raised against officers tackling criminals, the Mayor should look for ways in which he can back the officers and help them rebuild their lives and career by coming out on record and defending them (where they are shown to be in the right).

At the moment, the Mayor is focussing on PR purely for himself, and that helps no one.

Here here
Does seem that way. Daily we get a dozen tweets saying “what I am doing about…” but they never detail anything.
Lots of PR photo opportunities, need to know more info on what these plans are.

thought leader?

thought leader? If you’ve got it in for the mayor for some reason why not just say so. But his action is to use his powers to follow up the Home Office summit on this subject in August with a London wide summit bringing together the agencies he has some influence over. This is surely a policing matter, and he seems to be backing the Met pretty strongly to me.

Interesting to see the breakdown of which governing body says what re moped pursuits.

Doesnt say how police plan to stop them though.

I think the headline suggests it’s under review

What options are there that wont have hand wringers in tears when one of the little darlings gets hurt by the nasty police.

I know what you mean. I get the impression though that what supporters of these little arses is becoming less and less important, and the wording it starting to suggest the majority of the public are of greater importance.
Obviously the issue which remains is the recent clarification from the IPCC and the courts of actions officers should face.
All groups need to work together on this, once and for all.

Indeed, it would be nice if the needs of the many outweigh the “rights” of the few now and again.

Helicopter pursuit is expensive, but I’m guessing the Met will be monitoring the activity using drones before long and guiding police vehicles to locations where the bikes are stored.

Yay Londoners!

Via anon64893700:

Great to see progress being made against this awful crime wave:

Good to see the Met being proactive about matter, and tackling the issue head on (literally some times)

Interesting to see the measures being put in place, the equipment used, and the relaxation of rules regarding tactical contact with the moped riders.
Some videos going around social media show more and more brazen behaviour from some of these gangs. So it is good to see it is at the forefront of the list of priorities.

It’s that time of year again when people are out and about and less aware of their surroundings.
It’s also the time of year where these little scrotes come back out.
Spotted three mopeds with no number plates being ridden around Perry Vale earlier, Inc this pair trying to get petrol in Sydenham Sainsburys.

Keep your eyes peeled and your wits about you.

Screenshot_20180504-1941211080×1920 813 KB

Apparently effective tactic deployed in Manchester

Might be worth reporting to police as these photos may be useful to them? Or @SgtBiddle

So annoying isn’t it. ️

I bet not as shocked as those on the scooter!

Good to see the police finally being able to start doing something about the scooter related crime.

Ah, the Nike tracksuit and trainers of invincibility.

Great catch @anon93536262

Sorry. My teenage son is a moped rider, he studied his highway code and has spent quite a lot of his own money on proper safety gear. The main use for the moped was to travel to and from college, he sometimes wears Nike trainers… Please don’t lump all the kids into one group. My son is law abiding and responsible. He’s nervous enough and constantly on the look out for the ‘dodgy’. Without being judged as a criminal by his footwear!
Not all kids are the same.

I didn’t say your son was dodgy, I was commenting on the apparel as a motorcyclist. The photo shows two kids, which is what they are, on a stolen scooter. I have had 3 bikes stolen and hate the two in the photo with a passion that only a motorcyclist who has had theirs stolen could muster. Please also consider your son’s clothing as Nike trainers may look cool but will do nothing in the case of an accident. I won’t bore you but it spent a year off work after a crash with very good gear. It’s his choice to wear whatever he likes, personally I would rather ride in appropriate gear.

I said " occasionally" as once or twice since college kicked out, he pootles to the local supermarket in all the proper gear, except boots. I would hate to think that the law abiding teenage moped riders ( and there are some out there) are being judged .

I really am sorry you thought I was judging your son. Never met him, never likely too. I was judging the tossers on a stolen scooter that someone probably worked really hard to buy. Just because they are wearing the same footwear your son has doesn’t make him lumped in. Let’s focus on the idiots on the stolen bike not the fact that they have the same footwear.

Actually most moped riders are law abiding its just the scum that stand out and create this stereotype but you cannot link footwear to that stereotype as who would wear full protective boots on a 50cc moped. It is ok to wear trainers on a moped and is encouraged to during a cbt. Just because some chavs like to steal, drive and sell stolen bikes does not mean every young person who has L plates or wears tracksuits or trainers are like them.

OK, just to explain. I have riden bikes for 30 years and am a member of a few motorcycle forums. There is a generic term to describe people who don’t wear good gear and it is ”the trainers of invincibility”. A bit like people who don’t look when crossing the road with headphones on have the “headphones of invincibility” so please, let’s not make this more than it is. It was a throw away line, let’s look at it like that please.

But how is it not good gear if we are advised to wear trainers on mopeds. There is no need at all to ride a moped with anything other.

I have never hear any good training school say wearing trainers on any bike is a good idea. If you are happy to wear trainers on any bike you go for it. What do you ride?

I was advised as it is not a motorcycle but a moped with a footwell/ no gears

It’s still a powered two wheeler. I can come off a Gillera SP180 as easily as I could have on my Yamaha R6. Flesh abraids as easily on either. No instructor would ever advise wearing anything other than the best protective gear as you can. So what do you ride?

Seems a shame for us all to fall out over a comment about footwear. I don’t think any forum members’ children were being judged. Let’s avoid over-analysing, folks.

Rather than ringing 101 sometimes it is quicker to send a message to the Met twitter account, they tend to respond and give you a crime number within 10 minutes. Unfortunately the account is only manned until 11pm, after that 101 is the only option.

Is there scope for local drone owners to assist police by tracking riders of stolen bikes?

I’ve done the CBT twice (long story but I never graduated to a full licence - partly because I got fed up when my PS125 got nicked) and both times we had conversations with instructors about footwear which went “you can ride in trainers but you’ll be better off with something providing more protection…”

It’s all about how much of a risk you want to take - a scooter with a footwell can crush your ankle if you fall off the wrong way and is a heavy thing.

I ride a lexmoto echo 50. The cbt instructors said its best to wear boots but you only need trainers on a bike with a footwell

Yes but youd look like a ■■■■ wearing boots on a ped

When my R6 was stolen I rode a scooter as my insurance was way too high for another R6. Full leathers and boots. I got laughed at a few times, that didn’t hurt as much as road rash. I was hit by a drink driver a few years back, we were both doing around 15 miles an hour. My foot was crushed between the bike and car. I was wearing very good Motocross boots. Both paramedics commented at the scene that had I not been wearing them I would have lost me foot.

I would rather go for function over fashion when it comes to bikes.

Back to the subject in hand. That is a great photo and I am sure the local police will recognise the rider. I hope they catch the scrotes.

Given we now have the technology for me to turn on my bedroom light in Forest Hill from Bondi Beach, or see who’s ringing my doorbell from New York, why is it that cars, bikes and scooters can’t be fitted with software that totally immobilises them in the event of theft? Is is that the software exists but is too easy to reset/hack? Or do the companies just not want to bear the expense?

It’s an interesting idea - I’d be nervous to see this implemented as a centrally-run system as technology is fallible and this would be a target for hackers and ransom-seekers.

iPhones operate on a centralised system that disables them when stolen. It works very well and has reduced theft of iPhones. However, I’ve seen occasional problems - people locked out of second hand iPhones due to activation lock. Also I’ve heard of theft victims being forced to unlock under threat of violence.

It exists and is used. I had an immobiliser, alarm, chain and front disk lock on my bike. It was stolen at around 11am on a Saturday morning from outside my local pub. Two men in a van turned up wearing high vis, used a grinder to cut the chain. They were challenged by the publican who knew it was my bike. They told him it had broken down and they were picking it up. He helped put it in the van. I imagine it was driven to an underground garage where the tracker was removed, the bike stripped and sold on as parts.

If someone wants your bike badly enough they will take it. Sadly.

That is terrible advice and is the reason that Transport for London needs to fund an assessment scheme for training schools in London.

Superb on both points. Glad you made the effort and hopefully it gets acted on.

It was quite exciting as I got to the bus stop on Catford Hill yesterday at about 6.30 p.m… I saw a moped racing up from Catford with two police motorbikes in hot pursuit wit flashing lights etc… I assume they caught him as motorbikes can go through the local alleyways that cars cannot.

Let’s hope so

at least his helmet is very distinctive.

Is the driver definitely a man? They have quite a feminine face and their forearm seems very slim. But it might just be the way the crash helmet pushes up their cheeks.

might be a woman, you’re right. difficult to tell for sure, on reflection, and zooming in. my guess would be it’s not though.

Other than the fact that these young chaps were not wearing helmets (very dangerous of course), where did your concern lie? I hope not merely in their ethnicity.

I guess the two police bikes chasing them was a giveaway. Also, the riders ethnicity is without doubt but I am amazed you could tell the pillions.

I can’t figure out which comment you are referring to and who you are suggesting could be racist. Can you give a more details?