The on-going saga of The Capitol being sold by Wetherspoons

via https://twitter.com/selcamra

Confirmed: Wetherspoons is selling The Capitol!

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I saw that shared by @Michael too - in a way it is good news, it has been rumoured for so long.

The question is … what next? I assume that if it was already sold they’d also have announced the details?

Here is the land registry document

RegisterTGL138835.pdf (8.4 KB)

I hear that Wetherspoons only held the 25 year lease, starting from 2001, so that’s what’s up for grabs.

Back in 2014 when the staff at The Capitol were telling people that it was closing & due to become a cinema I managed to get a contact number for “Exempt Property Unit Trustees Ltd”. When I called to ask if they could confirm that it would be a cinema they would neither confirm or deny this.

I called again a couple of weeks later & got the same answer but they said they would pass on my info to the owners and it was up to them if they contacted me or not about this. I gave my email address but never heard anything.

At the time it was rumoured that “Picture House” were interested in the site & I think Cllr Paul Upex contacted them to ask & I think he got the same response I got with the above, they wouldn’t confirm or deny it.

I’m quite sure that Picture House cinemas has a link to ABC cinemas so this would make sense as ABC cinemas seem to be the owners of the building.

fascinating - thanks.

Sadly, with the East Dulwich operation open (though I have yet to go there, I admit), I suspect that it would not be seen as separately viable for the same company

@Pauline Picturehouse is a subsidiary of Cineworld Cinemas.

Cheers Martin

I dug around a bit more and Picturehouse is owned by Cineworld.

Does anyone else think it’s worth exploring the possibility of setting up a CIC to take on the building as a joint cinema/theatre/music venue, or am I being completely bonkers

The running costs alone would probably be around 150k per year I would imagine!

It used to be an ABC cinema many, many years ago, think it was in the 80s when it closed down. Only time it was ever really busy was on Saturday mornings for the Saturday morning cinema for kids. We had a choice of that or the Granada cinema in Sydenham that site is now the Co-op supermarket.

After discussing this with another, we know a local that could potentially take this on successfully as a venue that has many contacts!

Comedy, music etc.

A chat with the individual was had today & he’s now looking into it!

This could be very sexy if it works out!

This would be brilliant I think, and we’re both willing to help where we can if they go ahead

A gig venue would be amazing, although with the flats right by it probably very hard to get permission for it?

Let us not forget that Picturehouse are also opening in West Norwood. This is interesting from an architectural article in late 2015.

"Instead of building venues from scratch or taking over existing cinemas, Picturehouse converts interesting but challenging structures. Architect Mark Panter helps the company hunt down architectural treasures that are ripe for adaptive reuse.

‘Generally, the buildings are not in use,’ he says, citing the East Dulwich venue – a Victorian church hall – and the Crouch End space, a former warehouse and 1950s office building."

The church hall in East Dulwich was definitely in use, notably with dance classes as it had a sprung dance floor.

From what I understood, the classes had been moved out a few years ago franky as the building was in very poor shape and in need of upgrade. It was the Diocese which ultimately made the decision on its future use.

Some more details on all the properties being disposed of by Wetherspoons here (the Capitol is #13)

http://www.jdwdisposals.com/download/usr_1132/site_13320/en/page_105660/control_864397/JDW_Disposals_Brochure_19.5.16.pdf

Personally I would love someone like TK Maxx to take it over:

• At the moment if one needs to buy anything (be it a pair of boxers to a suitcase) he needs to travel somewhere
• I think such a store would make Forest Hill more of a destination for the residents of the surrounding areas, with a conseguent positive effect for the local traders
• Parking in Perry Vale would be quite nearby and convenient
• I don’t think it would subtract trade from any of the present shops/venues

Am I being naive? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Good idea, but I’m not sure if there’s enough footfall in FH for a retailer like TK Maxx to be interested. I agree with all the points you mentioned

I would love a picture house. Although im sure I read on one of the forums it is unlikely that it will become a cinema due to it being a listed building?..hopefully I read wrong!

Am I right in thinking the Capitol had a half-term kids film club? If so, where were the films being shown? Is the old circle accessible? Seems unlikely.

Yes @RachaelDunlop. Theyve been showing films at 9am everyday this week. Only found out Wednesday and havent been able to make rest of week. Not sure where inside it is held but I know they are showing Frozen tomorrow and Minions on Sunday x

Everyman Cinemas are “buying up empty Odeons and former ‘picture houses’ to give film-goers a G&T on the sofa-style experience”

So I tweeted the CEO:

@LillyCrispin have you considered opening a cinema in Forest Hill in South London?https://t.co/aIKCP8lqBs
Happy to provide further info.

— Forest Hill Society (@FHSoc) August 10, 2016

He ‘liked’ the tweet but a week later we still don’t have a cinema in Forest Hill.

I think everyone on this forum that has a Twitter account should comment on the tweet to see if he responds

Not everyone is convinced:

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It’s a fair point regarding the listed status. Maybe that’s why Picturehouse have tended toward modern venues? Easier to fit out?

Two screens is better than no screens.

As for the listing, I guess it would be down to Historic England to determine what changes if any could be made to the interiors. It is Grade II listed so there could be some flexibility. I’ve seen Grade II buildings gutted.

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1253032

The Beckenham Odeon is in a listed building. They’ve managed to work around it very successfully.

the article did say:

[quote=“Guardian article”]
“If anyone thinks they have got an existing cinema and wants to move on,
or an old bingo hall or just a cute space we can fit in, we’re
interested,” says Lilly.[/quote]
“Cute space” suggests to me the possibility of less than four screens.
I think you could get four screens in if you divided the hall vertically and horizontally. Possibly the two balcony cinemas would have the screen directly in front so that the main area would not need to be divided so dramatically.

Chris the same person liked the tweet by @ForestHillArts

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Just came across this!

Really hope it’s not becoming a church.

We’ve been wondering why The Capitol isn’t something nicer than a Wetherspoons - it has such lovely architecture, would be a shame to not restore it to its former glory…although I imagine they are more likely to turn it into a chain restaurant of some kind…pizza express? ha. another Pizza place.

I think there was discussion about registering it as an Asset of Community Value before, although I can’t remember the outcome. I guess the problem is that most people wouldn’t mind it changing to use provided it wasn’t to a church (not sure that’s doable with the ACV process)?

ACV process will only give a chance for a community to buy it first. Second question is can community raise the funds ( much before agreeing on what would future use be). If community can’t raise the needed funds it could be sold at an open market and the new owners can apply for change of use terms without consulting the community (by not purchasing it community is effectively discharging ACV status and the new owners are not bound by it)

The author of the blog doesn’t think much of community engagement.

Do the people of Forest Hill care enough to try to stop this? They’re not showing it yet – even though this place should be as cherished as some of the other bars local campaigners have acted to protect. Maybe they’re too snobby to save a Spoons. But they’ll miss it when it’s gone.

They say that, but they also show some images which, to me, show why the locals are not so keen to save it.

It’s a dark cavern with dated layout and furniture:

The rightly praise the building, but that is exactly what the people want to save. The author did not lavish praise on the pub itself, and seemingly neither do the locals.

Probably my least favourite pub in FH tbh. Spoons are so hit and miss and although they do some good beer it is never there when you go back. Sure they are cheap and they serve a good demographic but I am not going to morn its closing.

I’d love to see it turned into a venue for gigs, local bands or DJs, dance nights etc but I fear there isn’t much money in that these days.

What you see is what you get. A place that’ll put a roof over head, keep the breeze out and let you have a seat whilst you get food and drink. Probably the only pub in forest hill where you can get more than 3 decent pints for less than a tenner. I’m gutted it’s going if I’m honest.

Have to agree with @anon86223367, it may not be trendy but it’s a boozer, not a hipster joint.

Apparently Foxtons are looking at opening a branch in Forest Hill…

And combining it with a coffee shop cum nail bar/internet cafe!

I am in the great orb, Doom Bar at £2.29 a pint. Result.

Cinema restoration please.

I Like your thinking!

My recollection was that the last time this was discussed (and it was a fairly serious discussion), the Council was unwilling to allow the building to be subdivided as it would need to be to be viable as a modern multi-screen.

Unless there’s someone willing to take it on and make it a huge single-screen cinema (maybe like the Electric Cinema in Notting Hill) it’s unlikely that a cinema conversion would happen.

Hi @Dave

My recollection was that the Council did not receive any formal or informal request surrounding the cinema at the time. I remember as I got excited about possibility of Cinema in our community.

See my first post on this topic , myself & @NewForester got the land registry as soon as we heard about this originally back in 2014. #4 on this I think.

I made a few calls and nothing was either confirmed or not confirmed back then.

Thanks @MajaHilton - I was thinking of a move around 2007/2008. I’ve had a quick look but I can’t find anything online to back me up. In any case, it’s probably worth another conversation now.

We just need a cinema operator to show an interest…

The Odeon in Beckenham has managed to convert its building into a multi screen despite benig in a listed building so it can be done. Their main auditoriums are still there, divided horizontally rather than vertically.

On a slightly different note, last week my planning committee approved application on a listed building, Fellowship Inn in Bellingham. The plans are to bring the building into its original use as multi activity centre (pub, music venue, cafe, cinema) https://www.phoenixch.org.uk/about/fellowship-inn
There will be certain loss of original features, but that is by far outweighed by being able to bring the building back to life.

Few years ago it was bought by a hosing association and they applied to Heritage Lottery for a grant. Which gives me a though…

Nice example!

Looking back at the sales brochure, aren’t they just offloading the remaining lease (another 8-9 years)? Presumably that makes it a lot less tempting to anyone proposing major changes, or to potential grant providers.

Did anything come of this idea?

Sadly, no Ed.

That’s the same impression I get & agree it makes it less tempting, but it could be a possibility that the landlord would be up for extending the lease?

Anything but a white elephant cinema. Or a creepy church.

How’s the Picturehouse cinema in East Dulwich doing? Given there are no cinemas in all of Lewisham there may be a market for one in FH for people south and east of FH.

This was the case for a long time, but the Curzon at Goldsmiths is in Lewisham, I think.

I like to think a cinema at the Capitol would thrive.

This ‘no cinema in Lewisham’ argument does seem a bit odd, seeing as we’re expecting people to go to the putative new cinema in Forest Hill from other boroughs, including some that rely on poor orbital transport links. ‘Oh no, I’m going to have to go to a different borough to do the following things’, said nobody in London, ever. One can get one’s superhero fix in Peckham, Greenwich, Beckenham, Bromley, East Dulwich, Brixton, Croydon, North Greenwich, Surrey Quays, etc, etc. Seems a crazy idea to me.

Entirely correct and I shouldn’t have suggested in the way I worded my post that it would be a consideration for punters. Might be a consideration for the council in supporting an application, though.

That much is true.

On no - this is only for long term residents of Lewisham and you’ll have to show some sort of ID at the door and recite the names of the local MPs before gaining entry. A local cinema for local people - we’ll have none of those Southwark types here

More to the point - is there a market for a cinema? I don’t know but I’d love the option to walk to one and there seems enough locals to warant one. If it can make money and service the local people/economy I can’t say that it would be crazy so I guess the point is - is it viable?

The East Dulwich Picturehouse has had the most successful launch of a new cinema that the chain has had and is still busy. Not bad considering the proximity of the cheap Peckham Plex.

Pretty sure a picture house would be in big demand in that location. But whether they’re interested or it’s suitable is another question. A music venue / theatre would be great too.

Has anyone heard any update on the fate of Capitol? My friend was just telling me about a new cinema which has opened in Clapton as a result of a crowdfunding project and grants. Could we do the same for the Capitol and make it a cinema, bar and restaurant location for Fo Ho?
http://lovingdalston.co.uk/2016/03/be-first-to-view-in-this-reviving-clapton-cinema/

Gutted the Spoons is going to go. Even more gutted if it will be replaced with another twee Antic-a-like pub. Not many places in FH are genuinely welcoming to the whole community. In Spoons you see mums having a coffee, families having lunch, older people having a chat (or a read of the paper) and a pint and then it gets a bit more lively in the evenings. Really don’t want to pay megabucks to go to a cinema that won’t pay their staff the London living wage either (ahem Picturehouse).
Can’t they just spruce it up a bit and bung a cinema screen in there somewhere?
Orrrrr… as it’s quite big, strip it out completely and fill it with trampolines like this http://oxygenfreejumping.co.uk/
Would def make FH a destination.

Every time I see a new post on this thread I fear that a closing date has finally been set. I love this Spoons and really hope they change their minds.

I’ve changed the subject of the thread to help reduce the immediacy of this thread that started in May last year.

Totally want a trampoline park. This would get my vote.

Inspiration?

YES!! @Contacthannah I posted that the other week (see above), my sentiments exactly. Mulit-purpose space with a cinema would be a dream for me. Beautiful building, don’t want to see it pulled down or not accessible to public. Also agree with other comments that it needs to be welcoming for all.

Any more news On what’s happening to this building? Thanks

Meanwhile the freeholders have sold the freehold to Romulus - the property owners and developers who converted the cinema into a Wetherspoons originally. It is no longer on the list of buildings for disposal by Wetherspoons, does that mean it’s staying?http://www.romulusconstruction.com/portfolios/forest-hill/

when did they sell it to Romulus ?

Interesting. From the description on the Romulus site it would appear they have retained ownership since its days as a cinema.

Formerly a 1,500 seat cinema located on the South Circular, this property was refurbished by Romulus initially as a Bingo Hall and subsequently to its current use as a restaurant and bar.

January '16 according to the Land Registry.

I think it’s misleading, romulus are also a design and build outfit, so I think they Refurbished it on behalf of the previous freeholders in conjunction with the tenants. I can’t find any link between the two owners otherwise, so I think they just sold because they had the chance to do so amidst the publicity.

Two years later and the Capitol is still going strong. Popped in last night for the first time in years with @anon51837532, @brencud and others to redesign the transport system and enjoy a gluten free beer.

Watched the England v Sweden game in this branch of spoons the atmosphere was electric the staff delivered excellent customer services considering it was a full house and the real ale went down a treat.

Guys disappointed you ain’t been in your local spoons to check this banger out

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Who cares? The place is a dump and almost always has been. It’s full of drunks all day, the men’s toilets are a disgrace and the food’s all the junk left out the back of Iceland. Gut it, remodel it and move on. Although I do remember its more halcyon days when you could get wankered in there for the princely sum of £15.

I went there once with some housemates because we thought it would be a nice evening out with some cheap nosh and drink. The atmosphere is dark, the aesthetic is dated, the staff look like everything’s a chore to them. My friend’s dessert was completely forgotten about for ages and I don’t think she was even compensated for having to wait about 40 minutes for it to show up (after eventually having to remind them that she’d ordered it). It wasn’t even busy enough for food orders for that mistake to be justifiable (it was about 9:30pm on a weekday). To the person who commented a couple of years back asking why locals aren’t keen to save the pub - this is why! It’s one of the worst Wetherspoons I’ve been to. My housemate loves a bargain and even she was disappointed enough to never want to return there. There are sooo many great local pubs with friendly staff and fantastic food to whom I’d much rather give my business.

I really feel like that building is totally wasted as a Spoons. It would be absolutely fantastic if it was repaired and restored and turned into a cinema - the outside could remain historic-looking but be fixed and spruced up, and the inside decor could be made modern, plush and bright while retaining some small aspects of its history here and there. It would be such a boon for the area.

No further updates on the potential sale of The Capitol? Is it not happening anymore?

The completion of the Fellowship & Star project in Bellingham is a good example to follow. https://fellowshipandstar.co.uk/

Would be amazing to take community ownership and re-imagine the building as a multi-use cultural space with grant funding.

I would be more than interested in restoring it and making it into South East London’s very own O2 Academy for live music!! Was there yesterday and imho it is completely wasted as a Wetherspoons!! There’s plenty more pubs round which would thrive if it had a big venue like that to attract live music goers!! I would certainly go there!! I wonder why no one has looked into that as an option?! Anyone know any reason why that would not be possible?!

I would suggest the very obvious answer of having enough capital and revenue to make a success of anything else. Suspect if you have both of these you will be welcomed with open arms.

Also the potential of sound complaints - getting permission for it would be a nightmare. Some venues are already struggling because there have been complaints from neighbours, even though the venue was there first and its existence should have been obvious!

Yep - the Ministry of Sound is perhaps one of the highest profile example of this sort of planning sillyness, though it didn’t happen in the end, this is from 2013:

https://djmag.com/content/ministry-sound-imminent-closure-threat

Oh god no. Having lived near to a music venue, it would be the last thing I was for a largely residential area. The noise… both inside and out. The parking congestion… at a time residents usually need parking. And the limited economic benefit to the area.

I, for one would be mounting the campaign against.

Haha there’s always two sides of the coin eh?! I hear u brother, but u might learn to love it!? Anyway it’s just a pipe dream it would be a massive project