Thameslink Trains?

This morning I saw a Thameslink train on the fast line going south through Sydenham.
I was surprised as I didn’t think that Thameslink trains ran on that line. I noticed the number on the back as it sped away. a few minutes later another one went north, just as quickly, and again I watched it go past - and I swear the number on the back was exactly the same one.

do Thameslink Trains run on this fast line? Have I just never seen them before?

time was roughly 8am if that helps.

Yes they do.

They’ve run on the fast lines as long as I can remember and from May 20th, more Thameslink trains than ever will run on them as part of the improvements to the service.

Trains going to and from Cambridge and Peterborough will run full time past as well as the current Bedford to Brighton services.

And if you’re really keen, you can even get a direct Thameslink train from New Cross Gate to St Pancras at the moment - but only until 20th May when it will no longer stop there.

I think they disappeared for a while during the rebuilding of London Bridge, but they are very much back this spring.

Can you? I can’t seem to find on the timetable! What route does it take?

There are currently two such trains per day, one departs at 11:09 and the other one at 14:39. In the other direction they arrive at New Cross Gate at 11:33 and 15:03. They go through London Bridge and Blackfriars then on to Peterborough.

How strange! Could be (occasionally) useful if it was more frequent… Though not for long it would appear…

I wish they stopped in FH !

But from May 20th we’ll be able to change at London Bridge for the northbound Thameslink trains to St Pancras again. Looks like there’s going to be 8 trains an hour.

I wonder if there’s any way to make that happen? I guess it depends on demand and political will …

Probably too late I’m afraid. When the new service was drawn up years ago, I understand there have been considerations for our London Bridge trains to become Thameslink. The demand is there but the decision was taken in favour of the longer distance routes (which use the lines in the middle that have no platforms). Imho unlikely that this will change in the foreseeable future.

Yes, but usually expressed politely and modestly. There’s a strangely passive attitude, a que sera sera infection in Forest Hill.

I remember living in Herne Hill, when the Thameslink future plans were being discussed, and the fire and fury generated locally - because it was proposed that their Thameslink trains would terminate at Blackfriars instead of further north - was impressive. The train company wanted to terminate the Sutton trains at Blackfriars (or stop running them altogether) because Herne Hill and other stations along that route have short platforms and they wanted to run new longer trains. All the political representation was prepared to kick very very hard on behalf on the constituency.

I meant the passenger demand, i.e. the numbers of people wanting to travel this way.

Agree with the rest of the argument though. I think from a London borough/constituency perspective we are still seen as “having had our share of improvements” with the advent of Overground services. The line also goes through the fringes of various different boroughs rather than through the middle of one, so it may be a bit harder to get politicians fully behind.
In contrast, the campaign for better services from Catford, Crofton Park and Nunhead has been very vocal and very successful, but in fairness the service from these stations has been really poor.

Thameslink will serve Norwood Junction however. Two trains per hour between Bedford and Gatwick Airport.

Yes and the irony is that, having kicked up that fuss, the service is less efficient overall than designed and fewer trains will serve the remaining routes. Having the Travsport secretary as a local MP on the affected route helps it seems.

People kick up much more of a fuss at the prospect of losing something, even relatively minor, than getting less on a deal that doesn’t exist yet.

Yes, I agree with you and I meant that too.

[This would be what is called ‘pressing the wrong button on my phone’ - sorry!]

I don’t understand.

[Restored to a public post following mod fubar]

Ironically the Wimbledon Loop service would have had better reliability if it started/terminated at Blackfriars than continuing up to St. Pancras and beyond.

Instead the Sevenoaks trains that run through Crofton Park will terminate at Blackfriars, with the new Orprington services continuing to Kentish Town.

Forest Hill Society and Sydenham Society have been asking for Thameslink trains to stop at Forest Hill (and Sydenham) for the last 10 years - when we still had Charing Cross service.

I still feel that there should be Thameslink stopping services during late evenings and weekends (and other off-peak times), when there is more demand for metro services than for long-distance services.

In fairness to TSGN, I think they want to implement a simple service that works and isn’t complicated by special arrangements. There is also wisdom in segregated services as it prevents small problems impacting the entire network and allows for single power sources for trains. And although the Bermondsey dive under helps with route segregation, I think there would still be a minor issue with switching our northbound services to the Thameslink lines (no problem southbound).

However, I haven’t given up on the struggle for off-peak Thameslink services through Forest Hill. Assuming things go okay in May then we can ask for services to more accurately match demand on routes - and Forest Hill has numbers on it’s side.

But we also need to see how Crossrail will impact route demand. Quite possibly the Whitechapel interchange will move more passengers for Kings X and north to Overground rather than Thameslink - it might even be faster to take this route than direct services to Kings X.

Not really, just a bit more logical thinking than on the Wimbledon Loop.

Recently we had to fight for the continued peak level of services to London Bridge rather than an increase in Overground services on our route. I’m still hoping we can get more Overground services, but we might need to wait for the upgrading of the signalling system around Croydon.

We haven’t done badly at keeping most of our existing services in this round of service changes. We almost lost all connections to East Croydon (including Norwood junction interchange) and 1/3 of peak services to London Bridge. A couple of years ago there was another small victory when Overground spaced the trains to Forest Hill more regularly.

Thameslink has always been a slog between Blackfriars and Kentish Town, however automatic train operation is now in operation on the core section, allowing a train to call at stations such as Farringdon every 2.5 minutes, which should speed up the service.

ATP should be extended to just after Canal Bridge (I think?) by the May timetable change, currently it runs to just south of Blackfriars.

I think the best we can get is 2tph to replace the soon to be Coulsdon Town services off-peak with the upcoming Bedford to Gatwick service which will be fast from London Bridge, but stops at the likes of East Croydon, Purley and Redhill.

For those of us within a hundred yards of the line, the increase in fast Thameslink trains has been very noticeable and not for the better. Seems to be one going north or south every couple of mins at peak times with the accompanying noise and vibrations. With the southern and overground there’s basically a train every minute on the line.

The Thameslink trains are longer (16 carriages?) than, for example, our off-peak Southern services of four carriages, and they appear to travel much faster than other non-stopping services running through.

[Perhaps a new thread required on environmental impact?]