Lately I’ve noticed it’s getting harder to find parking during the day in the vicinity of where I live. Gabriel street is rammed, all the adjoining roads are full… what’s going on? And how do we solve it? Today I had to drive around 20 min before I finally saw someone leaving!
As the area becomes more gentrified I wonder if there is an increase in multiple car families?
With cars costing just a few hundred pounds I dont think it is gentrification.
If only the purchase price was the only expense. Insurance. MOTs. Car Tax. Petrol. Maintenance.
Another contributing factor may be the rise of multi-generational household. You think you’re getting rid of the kids when the turn 18. Next thing you know your painting a room for a baby but this time its a grandchild.
I wonder if it’s actually people parking here in the morning before getting the overground… it’s free parking and next to a train station. But that means that residents have such a hard time if they happen to run an errand just before people park to go to work. Weekends are not as bad
I see this nearly every morning on my walk to the station so I suspect this play some part at least.
Agreed. When I first arrived in the UK we lived in Denham. The local estate had maybe 10 cars on it in total. That was '86. Nowadays cars cover every space in the estate and surrounding roads.
I think that there are a couple of reasons: certainly there’s a significant anount of parking due to commuters (spaces miraculously start appearing on my street soon after 5pm every weekday, and there’s usually always a bit of space around at the weekends) - but another big issue along Codrington Hill (at least) is the number of tradesmans’ vehicles who are parked whilst doing work on local premises.
That’s the creeping gentrification effect for you.
When the car park near the station was open it was rammo with park and ride people whereas now during the day it is often less then 10% full.
Indeed - next door have more than one car as one of the children is still at home. Luckily they, like more and more of my neighbours have got off-street parking…
Gabriel St has been crazy busy during the day for as long as I’ve lived in SE23. Even before the Overground there were plenty of people who didn’t or couldn’t walk to the station and would park there.
The poor residents in Grierson Road land up parking halfway up the street from where they live. It is due to people using the overground as I’ve seen people park & then legit for the station. We find our road (Kilgour) seems to be worse weekends.
I’m another Honor Oak bod who uses his car for work. Sometimes I find myself parked on the corner of my road waiting up to half hour for a space to appear if I can’t get parked on any other road. I’m not too fussed to be honest, I knew the road had no permit parking when I moved in. More concerned about the elderly or those who are infirm who may struggle to get to and from their car.
I’m guessing the better the transport links for the area get, the more common this will become, until CPZs are the only answer. Win win for the council, bummer for the residents.
The smaller streets are always a nightmare for parking when near a station. Same story all over the place.
I still think this is the most wonderful area to live in the whole of London to park in at any time…whether being a resident (I can always find a parking space near my house in HOP) or near the local train stations - HOP and Crofton Park. Maybe we have to drive round a couple of times, or walk a few hundred metres. It’s still an absolute luxury and oasis, considering I’ve been offered night work in the sh*t hole that is Croydon, and not until MIDNIGHT can you find a parking space for a mile around to park in even on a single yellow line. If you then leave your Croydon location after 6am, you’ll find your car TOWED away (not just fined…TOWED away). And for why? is it blocking a fire engine? an ambulance? a major red route highway next door to Buckingham Palace? No…it’s just the pure greed of Croydons’ Borough and many more I could mention. I love Lewisham (as in comparison, it is pretty fair on parking). FAIR being the operative word. ‘Most’ residents don’t have to pay thru the nose for the honour of having a ‘parking permit’ and commuters who have moved here and helped make the borough wealthier and customers who shop here because there is parking - thus come. I always choose shops where I can park, I go to parks, libraries, restaurants where I can park…this all that wins TRADE.
Parking permits shouldn’t have to cost through the nose for local residents. They should ensure that during specified hours on specified days parking is available to local residents only. It’s not as if there isn’t alternatives available on Perry Vale, behind Sainsbury’s and in the station forecourt.
off street parking is the reason there are so few spaces. as more and more people pave over their gardens its not only the natural enviroment which suffers
Better still, make the parking permits free for the residents while other people have to pay.
I’d be supportive of parking permits for residents and pay & display for people using the shops on the high street
I think it got worse since they extended the double yellow lines around corners
It does depends - my neighbors get two cars off the road on to their forecourt which is great but yes if only one car is parked it doesn’t do anything to help and can result in less parking space for everyone else.
Personally I prefer to have a nice front garden with plants and grasses…
We live very close to HOP station and our street has plenty of space to park in the evenings and at the weekends, once the station tourists have gone. During the day it’s a total pain and I’ve often had to park several roads away. Not ideal with a small child and a load of shopping. Perhaps parking restrictions in the middle of the day would help without affecting residents too much?
Off road parking for more than one car is very much the exception, where I live the ratio is one double or triple driveway for ever 25 single car driveways. Overall driveways are good for individuals but not for the street, they increase pollution, the risk of flooding and reduce the amount of parking on the street and look ugly. Although controlled parking is bad, it is worse if the street gardens are destroyed because it is seen as the only option for residents to be able to park on their street.
The problem could be solved with a CPZ. The problem is that Lewisham rather than give one permit per house free with subsequent charged there is no intersst in adopting it for many households.
A lot of councils offer a one car free permit (Barking, Newham are two I am aware of). Even if there was a one of fee I think it would be fair. Brighton has a yearly fee of £50 which would probably be acceptable?
Lewisham offer a £30 for fuel efficient vehicles, or £120 otherwise which is 33p/day, how much is parking in your street worth?
I could give up one coffee a week to pay for it which would be good for my health and my fellow residents and good for the drivers as some would inevitably opt to take public transport and walk a bit more.
The perennial issue is where you draw the line - otherwise a CPZ just shifts the problem. I know this sounds harsh, but station parking isn’t a new phenomenon and anyone who has bought a house near the station must have been able to appreciate that it’s going to be busy.
Dave, you’re right they brought it upon themselves and now should suffer in silence and stop complaining. If it becomes too much they should move further away from the station or destroy their garden if they can. I take it you don’t live near a station but near enough to fear that if they got one you might experience what they do. I could be wrong you could be one of those who likes driving round looking for a space near your house and then lugging your shopping and children in.
I think the response here is a bit disproportionate - I didn’t mean to upset anyone.
I’m not saying this at all - I just don’t see where you draw the line. Putting a CPZ in just shifts the problem around. There have been many discussions about this both here and on other local forums.
Arguably Honor Oak Park suffers more congestion these days because of the CPZ around Manor Mount, though, so maybe my initial feeling about it now being much the same as it’s ever been is wrong. Do we have any empirical data for this? Maybe someone on the forum has lived on Gabriel St / Grierson Road for a long time.
Personally I am unaffected by this phenomenon these days, by the way.
If you’re in a street where it is getting impossible to park, the only real answer is a Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ). Many Inner London boroughs already have CPZs for the whole of their area. Lewisham has them for most of the north of the borough. As the CPZs spread southwards, there is more and more pressure on those streets that don’t have them, especially if they are near key commuter stations.
Lewisham has in the (not very recent) past held ballots on whether residents wanted CPZs in the Honor Oak Park area. Their policy is formally set out in this document https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/parking/Documents/ParkingPolicyOctober2014.pdf
Section 2 describes the process for consulting on CPZs. There needs to be a 10 per cent minimum response to the consultation, and more than 50 per cent need to vote in favour.
If you think there might be support for a CPZ in your area, the first step should be to enlist the support of the local ward councillors to get it included in the schedule of forthcoming plans. It’s quite a big step, but it’s one many neighbourhoods have already been forced to take.
The CPZ round Manor Mount has been in for over 10 years. Honor Oak might have suffered 10 years ago from the CPZ going in there but I doubt you can say that it is increasing parking now.
I doubt very much that Manor Mount has any effect on Grierson road as they are about 5 minutes drive/20 minutes walk away from each other.
The David’s Road CPZ (Manor Mount etc) was put in to deter commuters but also Sainsbury’s staff and shoppers. It was very well received by the locals and I have never heard anybody campaign to get rid of it.
It probably shifted parking across the road to Taymount Rise but not enough for the residents to rise up and demand another CPZ going against the perennial argument that if you put in one CPZ, another is demanded at the border. We have had 10 years with no new CPZs in Forest Hill.
I think it is all about context. Commuters are likely to want to park within a short distance of the station. If a CPZ is put in place and they spend 20 minutes walking to and from their car, they think twice and many will pay for a car park or take public transport as the time saving has disappeared. I am not anti-commuter just pro resident and I think the residents have a right to say they are fed up with the situation and do something about it.
Thats great news though isn’t it ? Think about alternative means of transport…walk / cycle/ jog…please think about reducing car usage, you know it makes sense !
We are short of space in London and there is never going to be enough parking space to satisfy everyone. Therefore, there may have to be solutions to manage or curtail demand like CPZs. Or if that is not something car owners want to entertain that they will just have to accept that streets are public space and living somewhere does not give you a greater right to store your car there than anyone else.
I live on Taymount Rise and the shift to parking there is very annoying - it is a narrow, steep road and people often park very badly making life difficult for pedestrians walking up the hill, there are a good number of times when I am forced to walk out in to the road because of a badly parked car.
It’s getting to be a problem in Devonshire road as well. We live near the middle so not too bad but with churcheood gardens being built with 70 odd dwellings it could get worse if there isn’t enough parking on the estate. I think we did have a cpz consultation some time ago but it was rejected. Personally I would be in favour of a cpz but know that this is not a majority view.
I believe you have to have over 50% of householders to approve a CPZ?
Great info! Thank you!
There are mixed views as to whether CPZs actually work.
I’d be interested to know if there’s any concrete data that parking has reduced. I’ve noticed no difference around my corner of HOP.
When the CPZ was introduced in Waldenshaw Road and it’s environs it made a massive difference to parking volumes. What was a rammed carpal during the day and into the early evening became a sleepy residential road almost overnight. It was so bad at one point prior to the CPZ that the scooter born ticketed started turning a blind eye to a few of us from the surrounding roads parking in Sainsburys as there was no where else to park. I owe them for that.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t work - just pointing out that there are very mixed views as to whether it would. I’ve met just as many people who say its a disaster from their experience as to those who swear by it. As with all of these things, hard data would be useful.
Personally, I think we should have less cars anyway, so not really any skin off my nose 
Perhaps non drivers should be excluded from any vote!
Thank you to @bluefern for raising and other contributors to this thread.
I live on Gabriel Street and, though it has been an ongoing issue during my 6 years here, matters are definitely significantly worse in the past 6 months.
The recently-painted and ridiculously-long double yellow lines around corners and various builders/contractors parking during jobs/putting skips on the road, do not help. However, the problem is in my view primarily due to commuters from nearby areas using streets near to Honor Oak Park station as a car park during the working day. As I type on this Saturday Bank Day holiday, the street outside is reasonably clear with plenty of available parking; this is not the situation during the working week.
During the working week, I witness drivers parking up and walking to the station on a daily basis. Of course it is understandable why people may do so and I generally try to adopt to a ‘live and let live’ approach. However, when you cannot part on your own street or those neighbouring because commuters are using them as car park, there is a problem. There are also significant safety aspects where the scooters flying through these particular streets are less visible owing to bumper-to-bumper parked vehicles, in an area comprising many families and young children.
Gabriel Street residents have been concerned and discussed matters by email, one of whom approached Lewisham Council and received the reply at the base of this message.
I encourage anyone else in Gabriel or in neighbouring HOP streets to voice their concerns to the email addresses below. Once Lewisham transport department are engaged and looking at the issue, options and matters around cost, effectiveness etc. can be discussed and decided upon. I believe the time, though, has come to take matters forward.
Apologies for the overly long message.
Daniel
Thank you for your email. I am sorry for the delay in replying.
The Council is always under pressure to look at different parking issues across the borough. To ensure we make best use of our available resources, we prepare a programme of CPZ consultations annually. This programme is prioritised based on criteria set out in our parking policy, which is available on the council website.
* To determine what’s in the programme we look at a number of factors and score these to work out priorities. The factors considered are:
* Evidence from borough-wide surveys
* Evidence from previous CPZ consultation identifying demand close to the 50% threshold
* Requests, complaints, representation or petitions from stakeholders relating to parking pressure
* Evidence of overspill from existing CPZs
* Parking studies undertaken by the Council or Developers
* Evidence of existing road safety issues
* Evidence to support strategic infrastructure, town centres or car free developments
* Introduction or changes to transport hubs.
We currently are in the process of assessing areas for review as part of our programme for 2017-18.
We have recorded your request for a CPZ in Gabriel Street and this will be considered, along with any other requests that may be received, when prioritising our CPZ review programme.
Imogen Payami
Casework – Transport
Regeneration and Place
London Borough of Lewisham
4th Floor | Laurence House | Catford |London SE6 4RU
Tel: 0208 314 2235 | Fax: 020 8314 3137|
The relevant email addresses are:
Good luck. Devonshire Rd couldn’t do it. Maybe Gabriel can. It will just push the problem down Garthorne. I guess it just comes down to how engaged the residents are.
Train commuters would park their cars anywhere in the area extending east of the station to the end of Garthorne and down Bovill and Herschel to Brockley Rise - then back down to Courtrai and up to Grierson - not to mention Duncombe, Codrington, Gladiator and Stillness, which are also within striking distance.
Hey! I know you are being a bit lighthearted with this comment but we non drivers and cyclists pay council tax as well! The streets are just as much for us as they are for car drivers! We are also affected by parking issues - badly parked cars can really impact on pedestrians, particularly those with mobility issues or young children. Not to mention the impact car chocked side roads have on the ability of children to use the streets to play in safely.
Well said, the serious side is people power is all thats required, we will end up with CPZ’s as thats the only real solution short-term . I will not last long enough to see autonomous vehicles that can be summoned with an app and individual car ownership will be gone that will resolve all issues.
Some people may want a short term solution but I would prefer something that is longer term. CPZ is just a tax on parking and a blunt instrument at that.
It would be more joined up IMO to push for better local transport links. HOP station has 2 bus routes but nothing that goes to Peckham Rye for instance. A 63 extension could help here. Check out the transport blackhole that is over the hill:
It would be more joined up IMO to push for better local transport links. HOP station has 2 bus routes but nothing that goes to Peckham Rye for instance
P12 goes from HOP station to Peckham Rye station
Via a circuitous route. As is the nature of P buses.
If you really believe that parking problems will be solved with a bus to Peckham Rye? Then I can inform you that Forest Hill with it plethora of buses has a parking problem, train commuters are the ‘problem’ if there was more cycle parking perhaps?
Am not suggesting that a single bus route will solve the parking issue, rather better transport links and cycle storage is part of that (though the current cycle storage is not maxed out as far as I can tell).
Agreed. Extending the 63 route would surely help commuters from East Dulwich travel to and from HOP station car-free.
How about walking to the station if you only live say 10 mins away? 
Well yes! But if you work late, have plenty of heavy things to carry home, or it’s pouring with rain then a bus might be rather handy. I used to live in ED and the walk home from HOP station over that enormous hill definitely didn’t appeal at times.
You only have to watch the parking habits of people in a supermarket car park, to understand one simple thing. The closer, the better, regardless of cost, effort, and inconvenience to others.
You can watch people daily, struggle to park between two cars, in a tiny gap, while there is a space 10-15 spaces away with nothing around it. But I NEED to be closer!
While there are genuine cases of the need to be as close as possible, a lot of the time it is simple human nature, and laziness that drives people (no pun intended) to jam the closest streets to the station with their cars.
One street can be jam packed, the next empty, because one is 45 seconds closer than the other.
I guess the issue therefore becomes, when you put the CPZ in, which streets does it cover, and what happens to those just outside it. I would presume the same thing, they will then get jam packed.
Yes I agree with you about not wanting to walk over the hill, but as has been previously said the P12 does go over the hill. I was thinking more of people who live in Devonshire Road!
The P12 wouldn’t help those in East Dulwich as it turns into Brenchley Gardens and goes via Nunhead.
People who live over the hill in Devonshire Road will surely just walk to Forest Hill as that would be closer.
Depends on what end of Devonshire Road you are in. What I’m getting at is that whatever end of Devonshire Road you live in, people will still drive to either station! Not everyone who parks near either station can come from East Dulwich. I obviously don’t know where @AgentBlonde lives exactly in ED, but I do know ED seems to cover right down now to Peckham Rye! So in that case you could get the 63 down to Peckham station. Only saying 
I used to live in ED. I’m in HOP now on a road that’s unfortunately very popular with car-driving commuters!
Sorry wasn’t actually pointing at you personally, if it seemed that way ️ I was just making a suggestion.
I must admit that this didn’t occur to me. That able bodied people might be routinely driving to avoid a maximum 10 minute walk. Do you know that this is happening? For real?
Really! People will use disabled spaces in Sainsburys or park in the taxi waiting area to avoid walking. Have you been to a school at home time all semblance of roadcraft is absent.
I took part in a survey a few years ago and whilst I was a visitor the chap taking travel details said that nearly 80% of respondents had a journey of just over a mile.
Indeed, in short, (some) people are lazy. Period!
Agree, parents drop their children off at school by car, despite schools encouraging parents to walk with their children. I know as I used to work in a school.
Parents are often vilified for dropping their kids off by car when most live within walking distance of the school. But many parents are juggling busy schedules and children of different ages at different places, and many drop off the kids on their way to work. This doesn’t apply to all car journeys to school, I know, but in life things are not always black and white, right and wrong.
Not meaning to pick on teachers but they account for most of the parking congestion beside me and tend not to practice what they preach to their classes about using public transport and preserving the environment. The parents arrive later and double park as the teachers have grabbed all the spare parking and the residents park a few minutes away.
Not sure of the particulars where you refer to but to strike a balance consider this: my OH is a member of the teaching profession and does drive to work (in another borough which isn’t unusual). If you saw the sheer volume of work she brings home, I doubt anyone would expect her to lug it via public transport. She does have a parking space at work though.
Also in support of teachers driving to school: many do not live locally and may have difficult commutes. It’s not as easy going suburb to suburb as it is in and out of town. My kids’ commute from FH to Steatham takes 3 buses and 45 minutes to an hour. I can drive it in 15-20 minutes. And most of the teachers at my kids’ secondary school are there by 7am at the latest.
Hi Daniel,
I am in complete agreement that Gabriel Street and surrounding roads have become a nightmare for residents to park. There was a consultation a few years back but the issue has considerably ramped up and I feel another consultation is due and would highlight the issues we have in roads close to HOP station. Another issue is the general increase of car owners which seems to increase year on year, also residents who live on Stondon Park and above the businesses on the post office / Chandos stretch of Brockley Rise have no where to park so they all park in Gabriel and other surrounding streets too. A CPZ for a few hours a day with passes that residents can access for visitors would be ideal. Yes we would have to pay but it would be price worth paying IMO.
Teresa
I totally agree @Brett someone I know who lives on Overhill Road parks on our streets regularly and i’m sure is one of many from ‘over the hill’ who parks in HOP to hop on the London Overground. I get why they do it as it’s a kind of no mans land area for them where the trek to stations whether it be ED / Peckham Rye and HOP is long so they drive over the hill. I also know someone who lives near the Blythe Hill pub who parks on Gabriel Street and our surroundings streets regularly as it saves her the 15 min walk. The only way to remedy this is to have a bus that goes directly over the hill to help serve the 'No mans landers) in tandem with having a 2 hour CPZ Mon-Friday in roads in close proximity to HOP station.
Totally agree @Tersie.
I agree - it’s a disgrace how cut off that part of the neighbourhood is public transport-wise. I wonder how frequently TfL consult on new bus routes.
It’s also such a shame how long and difficult it is to get a direct bus from HOP to Peckham Rye. It’s such a great area for bars and restaurants but, despite being a stone’s throw away, I rarely visit and instead use Forest Hill, Brockley or New Cross just because of the way the trains and bus routes are set up.
I agree with you about teachers & their workload, & their need to drive especially if they don’t live locally. Most schools though have car parks?
My main issue was as I said before people just within walking distance driving & taking up valuable places.
I agree with Rachel about parents that have to do multi drop offs, but there are a lot of parents that cannot get their act together in the morning, so drive their child to school. Schools for years have been trying to encourage ‘walk to school’ week. By the parent walking the child or the child walking themselves, they actually arrive with all their essentials for the school day, ie a suitable coat, which I found in my long experience was often left in the car!
I have total sympathy with people who have a 15 min or more walk, but as I’ve said before some people cannot be bothered to walk even 5 mins, so take up unnecessary parking spaces.
Most schools locally don’t have car parks especially primary and if they do it is limited to one or two spaces for deliveries. Secondary schools will have very limited parking. I don’t think Forest Hill School has an onsite car park, Sydenham school has limited onsite parking which I don’t think would cater for all the teachers there. I do know teachers who cope perfectly well with using public transport. Most teachers use public transport or walk locally like the rest of us. Many of the teachers who I see driving to school rarely seem to be carrying more than one small bag. If there is such a requirement with carrying such large workloads, should we be adding special teacher parking spaces on all our local roads or loading bays for teachers by schools.
Well maybe it’s changed, I’ll check with my friends who still work at a school, but I do remember teachers taking work home to mark, as there just wasn’t time at school! My daughter in law who used to be a teacher would deliberately stay at school late to avoid this.
A scheme used at a private school in SaffronWalden was that a parent volunteer (changed daily) would open the car door safely exit the child/children the parent could then drive away causing no parking problems and the bext car moved forward. Admiitedly this did mean cars entering and exiting the school forecourt which may not be possible in some schools. However, where theres a will!
I live on Grierson Road and would not be in favour of a CPZ. When we moved here we obviously understood that it was likely to be difficult to park directly outside our house living so close to the station… we live in London afterall. Whilst I agree parking has got worse and I don’t park on my street for 50% of the time, there are very few instances when I haven’t been able to get a parking space within x2 laps, and I don’t actually think this is too bad for London? I also like the fact that friends and family can easily come and stay without the faff of parking ticketing.
Of my 10 direct neighbours homes, only 6 have cars and only 4 of those are parked on the street. I would say its 50/50 of people for and against a CPZ.
One thing I do wish though, is when people park, they park to the end of a bay and not 1.5m from the end, stopping another car from potentially fitting in. That is frustrating.
Interesting article in The Guardian about a scheme to offer residents a free space in a local car park if they swapped their car for some greenery on the street.
Could we do something similar here which would benefit our streets and use the Perry Vale car park? I know on my street we have got a 25 year old rust bucket which hasn’t moved since last year. It would be good to see it replaced by something green that would benefit us all.
Please @BorderPaul , NO!
Not after all the effort it’s taken to make it available to help the shops in the town centre.
The free parking for shoppers is great but Perry Vale is used by people collecting their parcels, staff from the estate, commuters and the occasional shopper and is still half empty. Swapping out some cars from our already congested residential streets would be good for the environment and the residents. Many of these streets I’d say take nearly the same long and short term parking in a day as Perry Vale does in a week. It would be good to see some stats on the usage of Perry Vale as I suspect it is not much from what I can see.
Interesting if as you say Perry Vale is half empty, what is going to change to stop filling the surrounding roads?
I would suggest even if it was reduced in price it would have little effect, the only real answer is a CPZ, but we can continue to debate for a few more years until the penny drops!
reduced in price?! it’s already free for 2 hours! how much cheaper do you want it to be?
Interesting, perhaps I did not make it clear, the reducing cost applied to all day commuter parking.
My point even if it was a £1 all day you would still have on street parking. Sadly that is some peoples nature which is why people drive the wrong way on Manor mount, occupy disabled/child spaces at Sainsburys or block traffic and use hazard lights as if that absolves them of blame.
So vote for a CPZ and problems solved.
The council also plan to collect close to £5 million from ‘fees and charges’ including controlled parking zones and charges for garden wastes.
Increases coming for those in cpz