Aggressive Beggar / ‘Travelling Poet’ on Overground

Hi all,

I don’t think this has been raised before but I wanted to bring awareness to @SgtBiddle and other members about a homeless chap that is often travelling on the evening over ground (Usually on the Highbury & Islington and West Croydon line). I have had the displeasure of his company on a number of occasions but after my last encounter with him, I thought its worth letting people know here.

He starts he speech by explaining that he’s homeless and a travelling poet and then proceeds to provide a poem to the carriage.
The issue is when he’s finished, he gets very aggressive to those who do not give him any money and is unfortunately particularly aggressive towards women.
I have found whatever you say to him, unless you give him money he either insults or makes a lewd remark towards you.
Unfortunately, not much we can do as commuters but hopefully you will be prepared if you see him after reading this.

There was one of these “poets” on the southbound overground last night, about 8:30pm. It’d been a long day in the office and I wasn’t in the mood for poetry at all.

I made a point of getting out of my seat and moving to another carriage when he popped up and started his speech.

As always, irritating to see other people sponsoring this anti-social and illegal begging.

Advice for reporting begging on the Overground

If you text BTP they are usually pretty swift to respond. The last time I did this they were too late to catch him but it’s definitely worth reporting… and yes, he’s extremely unpleasant

This guy is very very intimidating, he seems to be getting more and more aggressive every time I see him.

Reporting him to the transport Police every time must give them the opportunity to catch him eventually. He obviously has some mental issues, but the right people need to be dealing with him don’t they?

Dear all,

Please bring this to the attention of colleagues at the British Transport Police as this is happening on their trains or stations.

SgtBiddle

I hope this is the link to the BTP Text number details…

SgtBiddle

http://www.btp.police.uk/61016_text_service1.aspx

Another reason why One-Person-Operated trains is not a good idea.

Having never seen a guard on either the overground or Southern I couldn’t say.

I am so pleased (?) that I’m not the only one who feels this way. Until fairly recently I worked in Hoxton & would see this guy most days, some times I gave him money. On one such time when I did so, I only had 30 or so pence on me, he threw it back at me shouting I obviously need it more than him. Having not worked there for a while the first time I saw him again in a couple of months was satursday just gone; he did his poetry and asked for money, everyone was ignoring him, I hate ignoring people and I said to him “sorry but I have no cash on me.” He then got very agressive and start questioning aggressively if I was “really sorry.” At which point I said something along the lines of “I don’t have cash but tbh I find you to be very agressive and you’ve thrown money back at me in the past.” He then shouted “oh been agressive have i” whilst lurching forward and doing a mock punch toward me (nowhere near close to connecting the punch). I told him to leave. I was still several stops from my destination and during the journey he walked past me twice more mimicking and saying aomething patronising.
Tonight, at approx 8.30, I heard someone else apologise and him once again have a go at them.
I’m sure I don’t fully appreciate how touch it is for the homeless in London and truly, I hate the thought of ignoring people but this guy is getting too much now. Thanks for the tip @SgtBiddle I will be contacting BTP.
Thanks

Thanks @Joey_H

I have to say that in the last few weeks, outside of rush hour, I can’t remember having been on the Overground without seeing at least one person begging on every train.

I know the guy-he used to hang out around Shorditch and became really aggressive towards myself and a group of friends when we were stood talking and he butted in and started his spiel on us-when we ignored him and didn’t give him money he really became downright abusive and arguementative.
He now travels on the overground in the evenings and yes… same spiel and he does become antagonistic when not given money-I’m a woman he did it to me.
Never noticed if he became more aggressive to females or that he’s generally a nasty bloke.
I’m sick and tired having finished a 12 hour day encountering these beggars on the train when all I want to do is get home from a long day at work

I reported this to BTP today and they have recorded. If others feel intimated by this guy then might I suggest you complain too, I simply text 61016 and then agreed to be called.

There are two flourescent-clad “TravelSafe” officers on the Southbound Overground this evening - and not a single beggar in sight.

Then the answer is simple. Everyone pop a hivis jacket in your bag - cycling shops sell cheap ones. If you hear a beggar further down the train, pop on your hivis. Job done.

After tonight’s train meltdown, just what I wanted to see - another beggar doing the rounds on our Overground train.

When two people opposite reached for their wallets I said (out loud) “stop sponsoring this,” prompting a sharp nudge from my other half.

But I feel something had to be said. Everyone who hands over money is encouraging this illegal behaviour, which has now got totally out of hand.

Chris

The advice on the forum is not to confront.

Text BTP on their well publicised number.

Or wait until you reach a station and press the button to report events to the driver. Most importantly, do not snipe. Remember the person being subjected to this behaviour is more a victim than you are.

You will potentially offer better protection to passengers who are more vulnerable than you by following these recommendations.

Alternatively develop a louder Scots accent (preferably Glaswegian) when you elect to confront offenders - it has a remarkably disproportionate effect. I speak from experience.

A-la

HEH YOO JEMMEH - GET THA FOCK OOTA MA TREHN!

Further to this, you can also email 61016@btp.pnn.police.uk (was just informed via a response to a text to 61016). That way you can include photos.

While I do not condone aggressive begging I do feel compassion for them. I am incredibly fortunate. I have a home, a job and food in my belly every day. These guys in most cases in a lot of pain with addictions and struggling to survive. NHS support services covering mental health and addiction issues have been cut to the bone and as a result the problems manifest on the streets and on trains.

Don’t do yourself down - I’m sure you enjoy these things because you work hard and make the right choices in life - not because of blind luck.

Sure, but let’s be honest. Who thinks to themselves when they are kids ‘When I grow up I want to be an addict and beg on trains’ ?
It’s a consequence of a series of traumatic events in a person’s life that leads them to the point of standing in front of irritated commuters begging for the next hit. Addiction is a consequence of trauma.
Obviously it’s not ok for that aggressive male addict to intimidate people for money. Hopefully he is caught and given a consequence. I still feel sad for them when I see them beg.

That’s a bit presumptous, Chris. How do you know? Unless you know this person and their background in RL, that is.

Sometimes people are in a good position in life purely through good luck - I count myself as one such. And actually, some bad luck in my early life that had the side effect of giving me the financial freedom to buy my own house in London when the market was down. 100% luck, both good and bad.

Some people work harder than any of us can ever imagine and make good, sound decisions at every turn and still find themselves in dire circumstances, blindsided by misfortune entirely beyond their control.

Edited my post to begin “I’m sure”

With respect Rachael, so is the post above. I am not sure all addiction is the result of trauma, I have known so very well off kids when I was at school who had everything but felt drugs were cool. They were not. Two died of overdoses.

My exact point. We can’t assume to know why any other person is in the position they are, good or bad.

With respect to the assumption rich kids from nice families don’t experience trauma I’d guess that they might have experienced relational small t trauma if all looks fine on the surface. Emotional neglect sets up people for a hard time self regulating difficult emotions and makes them prime candidates for addiction. Dr Gabor Mates book called ‘Realm of Hungry Ghosts’ explores the causes of addiction in a beautifully compassionate way. It’s a great read for anyone looking to gain insight into addiction and its causes.

Well this shit is still on the train. Today he asked a young lady why she didn’t want to give him any money and she stuttered for a second and then politely said she’d tell him if he wanted. Suffice to say he remarked about that being the best excuse you can come up with and then started verbally attacking her for a full 20 secs before walking off calling her a fuc… bitch. She was very intimidated and almost drawn to tears.

I see these beggars every day - and they all get off at New Cross Gate - why don’t TFL do anything about it? Maybe if they hadn’t frozen their fares they’d have the money to do so. These people weren’t there for the first 5 years that the overground was open, but they’ve clearly learnt it’s a nice little earner to feed their habits. And don’t get me started on the number of people that i now see jumping the barriers or pushing through them on my ticket.

Would suggest you edit the comments about the mayor. We don’t do politics here

Yes, please avoid politics.

Edited. Thanks.

To be fair, it’s not just on the Overground though… I have seen this happen on the Tube as well more increasingly.

Ive got him 2nite, not being aggresive but I think that’s cos I’m in a bad mood.

Just to add spent from Highbury & Islington to Canada Water chatting, arguing amd debating with him. His name is Darren and his final words were that he’s just trying to kill himself. Doesn’t excuse his aggressive behavoiur in the slightest but maybe puts a slightly different slant on his story?

No, he has housing. He lives with one of the others who actually has a freedom pass (that’s how they get on the line). They’re all in it together to feed their addictions. They deny help offered. None of the beggers on the East London Line are homeless. 100% they’re all about getting money to feed their addictions. Don’t be fooled.

They try to get around the begging aspect by doing “poetry” or saying they’re not asking for money etc. Solicting on the railway is a chargable offence under the railway byelaws. Anyone approaching asking for money in any shape or form is breaking the byelaws if they’re doing it on a train, no ifs or buts.

“I’m just doing poetry”, well then ask him if he can provide his TfL issued busking license. They need to be challenged and pushed off of the line.

I’ve seen now they have “land sheriffs” on the line looking out for them and moving them on.

“See it, say it, sorted”, if someone is approaching someone on the train asking for money, that’s harassment. Press the big red button by the door and tell the driver. They will have to stop the train, go back and reset the alarm, causing delays. Delays cost money. THAT is how action needs to be taken. More times trains are delayed due to begging, the better the response.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for helping those in need, just that those who are begging on East London Line are only in need of their next fix.

Totally agree with you @Flora_Noris. I wish people would stop falling for their lies, and stop handing them money. If the money stopped, the illegal begging would stop.

And hopefully they will be happy to pay the fine for improper use. If you wish to report a beggar you can text BTP on 61016

We had Daniel again on the mainline train on Friday. He no longer sells the Big Issue, but he is still trying to get enough money for shelter for the night. I think he has been trying for the last five years!

You won’t get fined for it. Being harrassed by someone coming up to you and asking for money is a perfectly acceptable reason to press the alarm.

It really isn’t the best idea unless you are genuinely scared for your or others immediate safety. Even then calling the train to a sudden halt between stations, possibly in a tunnel, and having to wait whilst the driver comes down the train to investigate and then reset the alarm and cause delays to everyone on the line is a pretty dim and selfish way to deal with someone annoying you.

Precisely

I’d bet that if a harassed traveller loudly threatened to push the alarm a number of bystanders would quickly get involved.

I would say if you are genuinely scared help can still more easily be given by the appropriate authorities at a station than on the track between. I have saved the BTP number in my phone so that I can always text to say what’s happening. To be honest the police boarding the train to remove someone at the station will also delay the train, if the thinking is that tfl needs to be encouraged to do more to avoid the disruption.