Allotment / Gardening Chat and Advice 2021 Thread

Following on from the 2020 thread .

It will soon be time, if not already, to get those seed orders in (and we have to wait and see whether there are implications for buying seeds and plants from Europe etc).

I decided to sign up to the the heritage seed library this year to try something new (well old but new to me). Received my 6 packets of seeds - am very keen on peas and somewhat excited (as excited as you can be about peas) to try out the Kent Blue ones. Will mainly grow for seed saving this year with a view to growing more fully next year…and am going to try that more generally this year with some areas on my alloment specifically for seed saving.

Managed to save most of my tomato seeds from last year and some peas, garlic as well which I plan to plant today (bit late…).

I may try and start some Peppers under growlights next month but am going to try not to start too many things too early this year so the house doesn’t get taken over with plants until they go be safely planted outside, as occured last year.

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Each year once xmas is over, it is so exciting to start to plan the plantings for the year ahead. So much to look forward to !

Well over here the season is already underway - sort of.
I bought a load of seeds with me so not being able to order from the UK anymore isn’t much of a bind - plus there are some great seed and plant suppliers here. I have ordered from Spain, Belgium and Germany but I can’t even plant the seeds I have so I have to stop buying!
My hot peppers are on including some Piri Piri seeds I got here from a plant, onion sets are in, corriander, lettuce and some leeks have been overwintered. Just been looking through the seed boxes and thrown a few thing in trays but I am guessing timings here this year. We have had some really cold weather and frosts did away with the remaining peppers which I was picking at xmas so I am hoping it warms up a bit now.
Over the last few months we have been picking oranges - hundreds of them. We have chucked hundreds away too as there are simply too many to juice and the freezer is already full. So we have some limoncello and orangecello on the make - you literally can’t give oranges away here so we have binned perhaps a thousand of the things…
Anyway I wont bang on as I am completely out of synch with you guys but Ill post some pics of our progress throughout the year…
Now to go sow some tomatoes!

Hi,
Hope you’re enjoying seed ordering.
Where you mentioned possible EU import issues it made me think that in terms of biosecurity (ie not introducing new pests and diseases) it would actually be a good thing enviromentally speaking not to import seeds and plants.

Do sent us some pictures of your rolling acres Nick - I could do with some inspiration.

It is a bit of a mess at the moment but when the sun comes out I’ll take some shots…

This sounds amazing - I’m tempted to try some lemon trees here as I think they have a chance in London now with it being pretty warm generally.

I think most seeds are (or were) fairly safe to import, but I believe there were possibly issues with things like Olive trees (I can’t remember precisely but am sure there is some virus in Europe wiping them out, and a danger with some of those being imported potentially).

I’ve decided to cut down a bit on what I am going to try to grow this year, so no potatoes, cucamelons, cucumbers. Undecided on onions but will probably give those a go. Have some garlic in but planted late so not sure if they will have rotted with all this rain.

Main things this year will be tomatoes, peas, beans, squash and a determined effort with carrots!

I will also have a much better go at lettuce \ spinach etc which I didn’t really both with last year, same with calabrase \ broccoli.

I have an existing strawberry bed probably in it’s last year so will need to grab some runners and move them somewhere for next year, and some existing plum trees. Am going to try to plant a Fig tree, and as above maybe a Lemon Tree or 2, and a Mirabelle if I can fit it in somewhere.

Last thing I will do more of this year is more companion planting and see how that goes, some lots of herbs as well as flowers like Marigolds and Borage (which I guess is a herb also), and lots of Sunflowers althouth they all get eaten now by either the squirrels or the parakeets.

The season is nearly upon us, must resist temptation to start tomato seeds!

Just got my box of seeds out…

When would you suggest is the ideal time to start seeds?

It depends, and like all things gardening everyone has different views.

The generally accepted safe view is 6-8 weeks before the last frost date, which is normally assumed to be 15th May, which means sowing seeds late March \ early April. So if you want to sow seeds inside on a windowsill for example and then plant outside in May, either in a pot or the ground this is probably the best option.

The seedlings need good light to grow on your windowsill so also another reason to plant a bit later as you have more daylight hours and stronger light.

However if you have grow lights, plant to grow in a greenhouse and \ or have the time or will to plant earlier, you may get earlier tomatoes.

I sowed my first seeds end of Feb last year, and then a second ‘safe’ set about a month later.

The feb ones were decent size already by 11th April, with the March ones just coming through on the right in the photo below (I grew them all under growlights initially):

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I then would transfer them to a pop up greenhouse during the day as above, and then bring them all in at night, much to the despair of my family and our dining table. I left some in a greenhouse at the allotment and the cold killed them all.

My feb ones definitely gave us tomatoes earlier than the others so will try again this year, but with less plants as it was a lot of work, and is highly weather dependant.

So sensible dates: Late \ March to April
risky \ more work dates : sometime in February (if you had a heated greenhouse or conservatory this might work better as well).

Good luck!

edit: chillies / peppers can be sown now as they grow much more slowly, you might need growlights not sure as grew them for the first time last year.

If all esle fails, Shannon’s do a lot of excellent young veg plants if yours fail.

For an early crop you can try sowing some Red Alert seeds mid Feb. They are a bush type tom so less prone to getting overly leggy.
To avoid plants getting leggy without the cost of a light then make sure that once germinated they are not too warm…
For the majority of toms I normally went 2rd week in March, once germinated and transplanted I put them in a poly tunnel but still had to check to temps at night. A couple of years back in April I smashed my collarbone and asked my wife to go home from the hospital to bring them in as it looked like a cold night…

Well I didn’t end up sowing any tomato seeds in Feb, but.with the kids help and a timely diversion from homeschooling we got our first batch in. Not quite limited to the 6-8 varieties I was hoping for this year, bit closer than it could have been! Let’s see what germinates, from what is mostly saved seed.

Jaunne Flamme trying for the first time then repeats for Gardeners Delight, Green Zebra, Yellow Stuffer, The Amateur, Tiger, Rosa, Picon, Black Russian, Paul Robeson, Yellow Pear, Red Bell, Pink Tom, (no idea on he correct names for the last 3, all saved seed from donated or purchased plants).

Will start some peas off shortly, am debating how to grow the heritage varieties from the seed library as only 10 of those each, but for Alderman that I am trying for the first time and my saved spanish peas which I have hundreds of I will be trying the gutter method to grow them initially.

Sounds like you have the bug big time!
My toms are all in and I have a few varieties as well, mostly heritage or saved seeds as well as a few of the usual favourites. I have Green Zebra, some Sungold that have been grown out and selected for size, some saved Supermama which will be interesting as they are F1, Barry’s Crazy Cherry, Coeur de Surpriz, Dwarf Purple Heart, Beam’s Yellow Pear, Red Alert, Jersey Girl, Andes Horn, your Rosa ones, Piccolo Dattero, Black Krim and some others I forget.
Here you can buy tomato plants - 5 for a €! Hardly worth the effort from seed but very limited varieties - I did buy some peppers and some ox heart toms as it would be nice to get an early start but we have had some lovely weather recently.

I did save some seed from this monstrosity last year!

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I have just pricked out a few so we will see if they give odd fruit…

Looks like the tango man from that awful advert years ago. Anyway, i think I have a reasonable idea of what else you might be growing out there on your rolling acres Nick …

We did grow this

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Well it arrived! Nice surprise today…

Nick, you are truly living the dream my friend.

If those come toms come out like the ones in the picture I suggest you trademark and licence them, and enjoy your drinks in the sun!

Sungold are F1 aren’t they? So if you saved them they won’t come true I thought? We’ve saved some seeds also I will sow later this month, but more of an experiment (my son’s!).

Not familiar with a lot of those toms, look forward to some pictures and taste results later in the year!

Yeah Sungold (and SuperMama) are F1s but someone spent a couple of years growing them on and selecting for size. They aren’t stable so results may vary but I have the space I need to waste a bit on experiments. I used Vertiloom for toms and peppers this year - they have a huge amount of each…
Don’t visit if you want to keep your wallet shut!

Nice to see you again and thriving, Nick. With your iranges, maybe you could dry them in slices to bundle with star anis and cinnamon sticks to make potpourri?

That is a lovely idea! Coming to the end of the season but we still have fruit to spare.
The gardening here is great but life is challenging - I won’t bang on here about our trials and tribulations but it does hammer home the point that good things need hard work to attain!
Today is a glorious 21C and now we have stopped the old horse getting out we might have a lazy day. BBQ for lunch lay down with a beer this arvo…

Peas - sowed the heritage varieties today that I’ve never grown before. Hoping to just grow for seed this year and then grow properly next year as only 10 seeds of each (bar the Alderman and Spanish).

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Top to bottom: Alderman, Kent Blue, Epicure, Gladstone, Latvian Christmas Grey, Spanish - as you can see they look quite different in colour and size. Most looking forward to the Kent Blue as they are localish as well as growing some of these that get to over 6ft.

You must have a big garden. I find that peas - although they do taste fab - take up a lot of space relative to the amount of product I get.

I don’t but I do have the allotment!

I agree. I try generally to grow things that taste better than in the supermarket, and you can’t buy fresh peas that taste like they do straight off the plant. My kids love them and have them like sweets.

I agree that it makes sense to grow things that are better than in the shops. Thats what i try and do. I must say though, that Birds Eye peas take a lot of beating. Just cooked until the water begins to boil and not a single second longer.

Having worked the “pea season” at Birds Eye as a student (many moons ago) I can confirm there is a 24/7 military grade operation to get the peas frozen within a few hours of harvest. They are also checked for tenderness, ones that were harvested late and fail the test are destined for veggieburgers and the like.

I always grow a row peas or two even though I don’t get more than I would in a small bag of frozen. They are good for the soil as they fix nitrogen and a few early peas raw in a salad really makes it special.

Having the last of our Crown Prince squash from last year. Really nice and tasty we think of these ones, so I’d recommend for anyone thinking of squash. Will also do butternut, pumpkins and patty pan. Below is front on crown prince squash so you may also need a freezer!

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Thought you had been growing mangos until i read your post !

I heard that too !

Potted my tomato seedlings on today. Think they got a bit hot and were starting to get a bit leggy so replanted a bit early. Planted to the leaves, the stems will become roots so when repotting your tomatoes always plant up to the first leaves (or higher when bigger of you want).

March and April are pretty busy sowing times, if you’ve not started anything still plenty of time but a good idea to get your seeds now of you have not already for a lot of things.

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Well tomato seedlings have come on loads:

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Having to bring them in each evening as nights still too cold for outside for them.

Row of Spanish peas coming up nicely.

Not planted squash yet, will do next few days. None of my cosmos seeds have come up so might need a fresh packet as seeds were old, or I messed it up.

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One of my rhubarb has a flower stalk

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Been such odd weather and April so cold at night, really need to be planting my tomatoes out soon but glad I delayed my squash. Am at least leaving these all outside in the plastic greenhouse overnight.

Good news on the rain though as it was so dry before the last week and a bit, bad news the weeds are in full flow!

on Gardeners World last week, they said that the rhubarb flowers should be removed. I forget why - is that something you do ?

Not had one do it before, however I suspect it’s to do with putting it’s energy into the flower / seeds instead of leaves / stalks.

I have enough rhubarb though so am going to leave it be, see what it looks like and see what happens after! I’ll not take anything stalk wise off this plant though.

Yes I always remove the flower stalks. Based on similar advice I read ages ago.

Great celebrations here. After 7 years wait i have been allocated a half plot on the One Tree Hill allotments. Good news eh ?

I went over yesterday to get started and cleared a large black membrane off the top of one half of my plot. What a sight underneath ! - like the surface of the moon, so it is. Someone suggested digging trenches and filling them with horse manure so that is what i have started to do. Back breaking work or what. Here is couple of pictures. The first is of my plot as i found it and the other two is what i did yesterday. Any suggestions of what to do with solid clay (not just clay soil, but solid clay) will be most welcome.

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It’s a beautiful site that has a beautiful view but it is hard work. My mate Annie has a plot up there and sometimes uses the clay to make her ceramics. Not that I suggest you do the same!
Have you thought about no dig? I sort of did it on my old solid clay plot and it worked well but does require a lot of input and dragging bags and bags of manure up the hill is hard work.
You can try clay breaker although you might need a lot of it…

Hi I have a plot half way up the hill. It’s not the best time of year to take on an abandoned plot as too hard to dig over. I would just clear the grass/weeds by scalping and pile up to rot down. Buy some pumpkin and courgette plants and dig holes, throw in some compost and they will produce for you if kept watered. Autumn and winter digging and the frost will shatter the clay.

Thanks for your replies Nick and Moth. I look forward to meeting you Moth. I too am half way up the hill so hopefully I will come across you soon. You know the blue shack that is on Dee’s plot, well I am just about 20 m above that and a little over to the right. My name is Tom. I am the ‘new guy’ Rightly or wrongly I have continued to dig deep trenches and am now filling them with horse manure. I see the cool rainy weather as good for digging because I don’t get too hot and bothered and the rain cools me down. Its been very hard work but now it is done. I am going to make some raised beds soon and then get about a ton of compost delivered. That way I can get something growing sooner rather than later. The other half of my plot can wait until the autumn until I do something about it. I will bear in mind the advice of both of you.

I can’t speak for that particular site, but my brand new garden when we lived in the Midlands had been a sheep field on heavy clay till we took it on. No topsoil at all - the house builders having carted off and sold what little there was. Really solid clay. You’d be a lot taller by the time you’d walked across it than you were at the start … platform shoes.

We planted way more than half the space with Kerrs Pink potatoes the first season. I was working with a highly qualified and respected garden broadcaster at the time and he agreed the potatoes were a good idea for breaking and cleaning the ground but said that the potatoes themselves wouldn’t be usable because they’d be riddled with wireworms.

Whether we were just lucky I don’t know, but we didn’t have a single wireworm. The potatoes were brilliant - best roasts ever - and kept amazingly well in the garage.

The part of the garden that hadn’t had that first season potato treatment always looked a bit of a poor relation in comparison.

Mind you, it wasn’t as rainy as this current season.

Good luck with your new plot. You can do plenty this season.

My plot on another local site had parts of very heavy clay. Impenetrable in summer, completely claggy in winter. I don’t hold that potatoes break the ground up, it’s elbow grease of digging that does that, as you are finding.

The best thing we have done about the clay areas is to put as much horse manure on the top as possible and let it rot down over winter while the worms work it in before turning it over. It doesn’t matter much if it is rotted down or not, as you are just leaving a top dressing - maybe 4 inches or as much as you can get your hands on. These days I fill the car up with free bags from Dulwich stables from time to time and fill a compost heap up in the summer, then use it , rotted down, the following season. .

We did this on sections we were not using, or lacked the capacity to reclaim. Over time (about 16 years so far) we have massively improved the soil doing this, Now we add rotted horse manure to about a quarter of the plot each year to keep the process going. The enriched area is perfect for food hungry plants like Courgettes and squashes, which will happily grow in raw compost , then in ensuing years we rotate that space to less demanding crops like potatoes.

We keep a record of what grew where and which part was enriched, so that we can keep a rough crop rotation going.

I’ve also built a few raised beds, a couple with covers, and have to say the productivity out of them for things like carrots, broad beans, sweetcorn, broccoli and parsnips has gone through the roof.

As an alternative, two friends took over a similar plot and went for the big investment, which was raised beds, avoiding the clay altogether. It suited their busy lifestyle and took them into very productive allotmenteering in their first season.

Very interesting, thanks for your thoughts Thor and Mary.

Congratulations!

The best advice I got when I first took on an allotment was that ‘everyone has their way’, and that is very true.

My advice is to tackle things area by area, and try to cover up areas you are not woking on yet with something (cardboard, tarpaulin etc) until you are ready to work that area. This will keep the weeds down in those areas and makes things look more manageable.

I dug my plot over initially and painstakingly removed the couch grass ans bindweed roots. I’ve pretty much eliminated the couch grass but have the odd bit of bind weed but it’s ok now. Keep in mind if you turn earth over that is you break roots for these you make more of them, so do try to remove the roots as you go.

I’ve not dug the soil over the last 2 years though and as Nick mentioned above, would recommend looking at no dig. For an area you have not worked on yet, put cardboard down, wet the cardboard and cover in manure or compost. You can then plant straight into that, and / or as Thor says use raised beds (I’d put the cardboard down first same principle - needs to be brown cardboard not shiny, not tape etc).

Charles Dowding is one of the current no dig leaders - his youtube channel is excellent: https://charlesdowding.co.uk/

Good luck!

Good stuff. Thanks for the tips.

Some advice would be very welcome. I’m a first time greenhouse tomato grower. My plants (all grown from seed over the spring) are mostly doing well but the tops of a couple are looking a bit fried.

I water every other day and the door of the greenhouse is up to get air in. Do I need to shade these a bit?

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Sorry for the late reply, how are they now?

They don’t look great, they can get wilted from heat and curl, and I think also from overwatering.

Worse case let a sideshoot grow a bit, cut if off and put it in water, it will grow roots, then plant it and either keep as a backup plant or replacement.

The weather has been awful for toms this year unfortunately.

Thanks for the reply, I’ll cut off the blackened bits and hope for the best! The rest of the plants in both circs are looking good. And I’ll cut back on the watering a bit! I was more worried about them drying out than anything else!

If you cut off the growing tips the plant won’t grow higher, so if you do that maybe let a side shoot grow and become the new leader as such. I take it they have not recovered.

I think more plants die from overwaterting than underwatering, it’s hard when it’s been this hot and I grow mine outside generally so not so sure about greenhouse ones.

They look as if they have got too hot in the greenhouse if you ask me. But then again if it has only happened to one or two then may be that’s not it. Having re-read what I just wrote its pretty clear you wont get much help from me. Perhaps I ought to have just said nothing and left it the experts on here !

That is a bit odd. I have burnt toms in a similar way in a similar environment but the tops were touching the roof and it was a super hot day. I can only think that a sudden change in temps damage the tops that were not used to it.

I want to share some of my love for Chives, not only good to eat but beautiful flowers also loved by pollinators. I have row of lavender with big gaps and think I will interplant next year with Chives.

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Whilst not a great year for many things due to the cold in April and May, the peas seem to have loved it. My Spanish ones are looking great and Alderman I am trying for the first year are huge plants, though germination was lower.

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My heritage Kent Blue peas are having mixed fortunes, out of 4 planted only 2 remain, but they have started producing some beautiful flowers. Of I manage to keep them going and save enough seeds for next year and anyone wants to try them DM and I will try and save a few. I think they are sugar snap type.

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My tomatoes are in the main still looking a bit sorry for themselves but hopefully will perk up in June, I left mine a bit too long in pots desperately hoping the weather would improve, which it didn’t until very recently.

We have tons of bumbles this year - but absolutely no honey bees. I assume someone used to have a hive on the allotments by the station & doesn’t anymore this year?

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I wonder if it’s been tough for honey bees also with the cold? Hopefully numbers will increase with this improved weather and the familiar buzzing sound will return!

I took off the scorched parts and left some side shoots - they are doing much better now!

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They are huge! Well done and pleased the sideshoots have continued.

I can’t wait for the first fresh tomato, I have some fruit now, though nowhere near ready.

I also have quite a few natural splits which I am never sure whether to cut off or leave, I tend to do a bit of both dependant on space and if I can get a cane into the ground, so like this:

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Lots of normal sideshoots starting to come through now which need to go.

Has anyone else noticed their strawberries are fairly unflavourful this year? My working theory is it was due to the wet May. If you are growing tasty strawberries - what are you feeling them?

Is this tomato blight?

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Leaf spot rather than blight ? I’d remove the leaves affected though, water from below and keep a close eye on it.

Looks like we have blight at the allotment on most potatoes, and some think on their toms also, I am think I might have it on one plant which means in a week or 2 likely all wiped out with no ripe fruit, unless I get.lhcky or have miraculously developed some blight resistant strains.

Weather has been perfect for blight I guess.

Think I might invest in a polytunnel next year.

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https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/news/rhs-trials-organic-slug-pellets-perform-better-those-toxic-metaldehyde

Ongoing RHS trials reveal that organic slug pellets perform as well as toxic synthetic chemical ones – especially on hostas. This is good news for organic growers.

Organic slug pellets contain Ferric Phosphate or Iron III phosphate as an active ingredient. Called Ferramol, it affects the calcium metabolism in the gut system of snails and slugs causing them to stop feeding and die within three to six days. Only these species are targeted, causing no ill effects to other creatures. Any uneaten pellets will eventually break down into phosphate and iron which will then be taken up as nutrients by surrounding plants. Ferramol does not have any ‘side effects’. If the pellets (or the slugs which have eaten them) are eaten by birds, mammals etc, they will suffer no adverse effects. However, use sparingly.

Advice please! My greenhouse toms are setting quite a few fruits, but I have a few stems where the blossoms look like they have dried up:

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Am I going to get any fruit from these, or have they just scorched in all the heat? I am watering daily.

Have they dried up or not just not been pollinated? I think some people try to hand pollinate to aid things, especially in greenhouses if there are minimal pollinators.

Not sure. The greenhouse has been open during the day and there have been frequent daily visitors of bees, hover flies etc - but no hand pollination. This is my first year so still learning what to do and not to do! Lower branches have good setting of fruit with the same treatment.

Only this afternoon a potted shrub is swarming with what looks like ants many with wings. Any thoughts of what this is and how to get rid of them?

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Flying ants… they do appear to be swarming today…
Washing up liquid diluted in a squirty bottle or ant powder probably your best bets…
I thought we already did flying ant day… did they not get the memo?

That’s what what I thought too. So thought it might be something else. But loads of tweets in the last few hours about it.

And thanks for the tip.

Or you could leave them be (assuming they are outside), they will be gone shortly!

I was working outside today and there did appear to be quite a few around, mostly near my feet!

I lost about half of my tomatoes to blight.
Had a tremendous climbing french bean harvest.
Have got some celeriac in the ground, looking to harvest in a few weeks - haven’t tried growing it before, but it’s looking cheerful.

Can anyone identify the item in the picture? I didn’t plant these! They were quite lively - climbing all over my tomatoes and with yellow flowers like courgettes

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Looks nice! Slightly hard to work out the scale… but you can get round courgettes like this:

Here’s another picture. The weight is 570 grams. I guess I’ll just have to open it up.

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Just one word of warning, if it’s a selfseeded squash of some sort, and it tastes bitter, throw it out as it will be toxic. Unlikely but possible.

Let us know what it is!

No time like the present. I just cut it open. I think self-seeded squash is right. The seeds must have survived in my compost bin, can’t think how else they got planted except when I spread compost into the beds.

But the fruit don’t look like any squash that I’ve bought. I have previously successfully dried and planted seeds form squash that I’ve bought. Maybe these seeds are from a weird hybrid (GM?) designed not to allow seeds to be used?

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I won’t be cooking this. There are two left out in the garden, we’ll see if they develop any further.

I had pumpkins last year that looked like that first and then turned orange.

I didn’t know that. Squashes do tend to pop up unexpectedly don’t they. I would be inclined to cook it up and see what its like. Bad idea perhaps.

The Metro is perhaps not the best source of information for this, but the article seems reasonable:

Cucurbitacins are bitter-tasting compounds that can be poisonous to humans.

Cucurbitacins are rare because farmers tend to cultivate plants carefully so that they produce little to none of the compounds that can be toxic to humans.

However, if there is an accidental cross-pollination of crops or a rogue batch of seeds used by amateur gardeners, then produce can grow that has the potential to cause illnesses when eaten.

Vegetables like courgette and squash that have high levels of cucurbitacins won’t necessarily look poisonous – making them more dangerous as you only know they could be toxic after eating them and then tasting bitterness.

Well I never.

Just to add that it is quite rare to get bitter courgettes and squash but there was a batch of seed last year that came from fruit that had been cross pollinated, probably by some ornamental gourd. If you just taste it then you can easily work out if it is toxic as it will be bitter - however cooking can disguise the bitterness and lead to complications.
The issues with saving seed from any squash or related veg is that they can all cross pollinate each other so you get weird hybrids that may not give anything like fruit you saved seed from. Also a lot of shop bought butternuts etc might be F1 hybrids and wont come true regardless. I don’t believe there are any GM veg available in the UK though…