I would welcome the Bakerloo Line extension, and hate to be negative, but this has been mooted at least since I first moved to South East London some seventeen years ago. Consultations and proposals are all well and good, but I for one won’t be holding my breath…
I thought that when the extension of the old East London Line was first proposed many years ago, and yet it happened eventually and we now have the London Overground!
That’s a fair point, I am no expert but I suspect the costs associated with that project were much lower than an extension of the Bakerloo Line given the Overground effectively followed an existing railway line. There is also the debacle that is the Victoria Line in the background with its seemingly endless delays and costs rising out of control which may well result in delays or cancellations of other large scale London transport projects.
I would be willing to wager we wont see this for another ten years (this prediction may come back to haunt me, and in many ways I hope that it does!)
I think you mean Crossrail or the Elizabeth Line.
Even if you have signed the Back the Bakerloo petition, Transport for London (TfL) wants
your views on the latest proposals, including an extension through Catford to Hayes and
TfL is considering the case for a further extension along the existing Hayes line with stations
at Ladywell, Catford, Lower Sydenham and all stations to Hayes and Beckenham Junction.
Your views will help TfL to define the final proposal for the project which is expected to be
confirmed late next year.
The proposal will mean connecting the proposed Bakerloo line extension tunnels to the
current Hayes National Rail line between Lewisham and Ladywell at Wearside Road Council
depot. The project would provide:
● A train every 3-4 minutes direct to central London
● Journey times cut by up to 14 minutes
● Space for up to 27,000 more people every morning peak
There is also a chance to comment on other aspects of the detailed proposals, including the
names of stations along the Old Kent Road, proposed tunnel route and TfL’s preferred
worksite locations at New Cross Gate, Wearside and Old Kent Road.
To have your say and find out more, visit tfl.gov.uk/bakerloo-extension before Sunday 22 nd
December 2019. The question on the Hayes line proposal is question 9.
Ooh tube station at lower syd !
anything that gives us other options to get to the west end than the jubilee line is a good thing.
The canada water/jubilee interchange seems to become more overcrowded every year its grim
But we will lose the mainline trains if this goes ahead.
Oh lord! is that so??
I use the london bridge service a lot so I’m glad you’ve told me.
I think the plan is to allocate the slots to London Bridge currently used by the Catford Bridge/Hayes trains to other routes. That is why Bromley council oppose it.
The extension to Lewisham will be useful. people can always transfer to the Bakerloo line wherever the two lines connect.
I still object strongly to the loss of the London Bridge service.
its a bit of a lifeline for me as I really can’t deal with the overcrowding on the overground to and from Canada water
The proposals suggest replacing the national rail trains in the London Bridge to Hayes line via Catford Bridge with Bakerloo line trains. It doesn’t seem to affect the Forest Hill trains in to London Bridge.
Although obviously depending on where you livr in SE24 the Catford Bridge services may be closer.
I agree with you Maxrocks losing London Bridge services would be huge. I use those from Forest Hill a lot - train to London Bridge and then Charing X is a great way to get to the West End. Particularly if, like me, you are not a fan of the deep level tubes.
I used to use the mainline trains from Forest Hill when they were every ten minutes. Now they are every fifteen minutes. I now use Catford Bridge station directly to Charing Cross. The Bakerloo line extension, if it goes to Hayes will replace the mainline trains to London Bridge, Cannon Street & Charing Cross. I would have no objection to additional underground trains on the same line, but the plan is not for additional trains, but a complete replacement.
More bad news.
The trains to Cannon St are already scheduled for closure in 2022 by DfT.
Also, how many know about the absolute chaos the building of this will cause to central Catford. There is a proposal that the Jubilee Sports Ground (St Dunstans School ground) will be a TFL work site for 8 to 10 years. Should cause complete misery on a scale not seen before.
Bromley Council’s main objection centred on losing direct trains from Hayes to the City of London. However, TfL says that the Department for Transport plans to remove Cannon Street services from the Hayes branch in 2022, replacing them with Victoria trains.
On trains to Cannon Street, do you have any verified sources confirming this? [EDIT:noted your point re TfL’s statement]
Your statement regarding Jubilee Sports Ground is rather misleading. I went to a consultation event last week. The preferred construction site to start the tunnel is at New Cross Gate by the big Sainsbury’s. The site at Catford is an alternative that has only been shown to demonstrate what the less favourable options would be, but it’s certainly not the plan to use this site. The consultation material is also pretty clear on this.
On London Bridge trains, while losing them would be annoying, TfL have shown a map that journeys would become faster to all other Central London destinations. That sounds like a worthwhile benefit to me. Trains would be tube frequency as well including weekends, so no more need to check the timetable. Bromley will eventually get behind once someone has explained to them the uplift on property values…
Anyhow, this is proper long grass stuff, I guess must of us would be retired by the time it opens. It’s in TfL’s queue behind a hand full of other tube lines to sort out, with repeated suggestions that TfL got no money. Still worth drumming for support, this would be once in many generations opportunity for South East London.
I quote " DfT plans for the future of the Hayes line could see the end of Cannon Street National rail trains by 2022, with the terminus of these services moved to Victoria."
I have only just become aware of this. I think the franchise is going out to tender with the replacement of trains to Cannon Street with trains to Victoria.
Apologies if I have misread the material that has been published by TfL.
Most of my journeys are to and from Charing Cross. We used to have direct trains to Charing Cross from Forest Hill before the Overground came.
I have never know tube journeys being quicker. They stop at every station. Some mainline trains go directly from Ladywell to London Bridge.
Currently my journey from Catford Bridge to Charing Cross takes 24 minutes.
TfL are saying the journey will be 14 minutes quicker. Therefore, I can expect to get from Catford Bridge to Charing Cross via the Bakerloo extension in 10 minutes.
The advantage of replacing the Southeastern trains with Bakerloo line ones outweigh those who wish to go to London Bridge. If people really prefer to stay overground, they’ll be able to change at Lewisham and continue to use Southeastern or whoever the TOC franchise goes to by the long time it comes to Lower Sydenham with a much more frequent service than now on the Hayes branch.
I heard that they wanted to send the Cannon Street services to Victoria before 2022 (instead they went via Sidcup). Now while it sees a cut in the service to LB from 4tph to 2tph, there will still be frequent services by changing at Lewisham, while adding new connections to Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill from Lower Sydenham. There is of course still a frequent service to London Bridge from Forest Hill and Sydenham.