Campaign to save the All Inn One pub

perry-vale

#1

Dear Friends,

The campaign to prevent the demolition of the All Inn One pub (formerly The Forresters Arms) in Perry Vale has begun in earnest. We have a short time in which to submit our objections. If you have an objection please submit it to planning@lewisham.gov.uk citing Planning Application DC/18/109536 THE FORRESTERS ARMS, 53 PERRY VALE, LONDON, SE23 2NE.

If you do submit an objection, or want to play a role in the campaign, I would be really grateful if you could let me know via email liamcurran33@hotmail.co.uk

There are many justifications in planning rules to protect pubs from redevelopment but a good one to mention would be The Mayor of London’s London Plan Policy HC7 Protecting public houses.

There will be more information coming but it would be good to start getting individual objections in now.

Best wishes

Councillor Liam Curran
Chair, Sustainable Development Scrutiny Committee


#2

Welcome to SE23.life, @CllrLiamCurran - great to have you onboard.

I would very much like to see the All Inn One retained as a pub (although sadly without Richard and Julia I fear) and I wish you well in the campaign :+1:


#3

Did I misunderstand the planning application but isn’t a pub being retained on the ground floor elevation?


#4

May I ask if the petition could be amended - or for another one to be drawn up - to the effect that any new development would have a pub on the ground floor and the current landlords would be given the opportunity to move back in on similar terms to their existing arrangement? (Perahps I’m being naive though?).


#5

There are three issues here:

  1. Should a pub be retained on the site
  2. Should the building be retained
  3. Is the replacement building appropriate

The planning application includes the retention of the ground floor as a pub/restaurant - similar to the Greyhound, the Slyvan Post, the Honor Oak, and every other successful pub in the area. I don’t think there is an issue on the first point.

On the subsequent points there are various opinions but the building is not in a conservation area, is not listed, and has no other protection (other than protections offered to pubs but not to their buildings specifically). But that still doesn’t mean that demolition is the best solution, just that there is little protection or planning grounds for objecting.

Whether the replacement building is appropriate, and whether a hotel above the pub/restaurant is right for the site, is likely to be the main issues discussed.

For the record:

  1. I have spoken to the developer by phone on a few occasions
  2. I regularly drink and have meetings in the All Inn One

#6

I hear your other points and respect your knowledge here. On this subject of the proposed pub - the developers would have an vested interest in minimising the “pub” aspect of the development, though, wouldn’t they?


#7

Do they want to? I understood they gave it up to pursue a different lifestyle.


#8

No, they call it a pub but it’s a bar area a fraction of the current square footage and the loss of all the attendant pub facilities. It’s likely a trojan horse application that will not even have a pub in the end. I am afraid it’s a pattern that I have seen all too frequently.


#9

Hello Michael,

  1. Yes.
  2. Yes.
  3. No.

The planning application is like none of those that you cite as it removes a purpose-built public house with all the attendant facilities expected of a pub. i.e. beer garden etc. There are planning rules that can definitely be used to protect the pub and there are many grounds on which to object. These rules are able to specifically to cover those pubs that might not be in a conservation area etc.

There are enough reasons on retention alone to protect this marvellous, purpose-built, historical, landmark building that provides a fantastic community hub of enormous social and community significance.

Furthermore, many applications like this turn out to be ‘trojan horse’ applications that are followed by a new application.

Finally, the design stinks.

Best wishes

Liam


#10

I’ll need to have another look at the latest plans. The previous application had the same floor area for the pub. I was surprised and tried a few ways to measure it, and it seemed to be true. There are good reasons why a hotel would value a restaurant/pub on the ground floor - assuming the council don’t take most of the rooms as temporary accomodation for homeless people.

I’m not trying to champion the development - i value hearing different views about this proposal so that the Forest Hill Society can best represent local opinion and properly consider the appropriate planning issues.


#11

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#14

Thank you for providing the details of the planning application, that is very helpful. It makes it much easier for me and others to submit a statement of support of the proposal. I can’t wait to have a decent hotel locally. Increasing the urban density will also strengthen Forest Hill’s position as a distinct local centre and hopefully encourage other developments to follow, particularly on that side of the railway.


#16

There’s an argument that it is not the building that creates a community hub but the people who run it. There’s no point in retaining the pub just for the sake of it if there isn’t a visionary local landlord also ready to take forward the legacy of the All In One.

I can see real economic benefit to having a hotel on that site. Specifically, there is the potential to provide the restaurants and other amenities on that side of the station with regular trade spread over the week. This would allow these ventures to stabilise and flourish, surely a huge boon to locals.

There is a difference between replacing a pub with housing (although much needed) and a commercial building that should bring extra spending to the area.

This is not to minimise genuine objections that might arise from the design of the hotel and other issues, of course. But that’s a different issue from whether or not we should try to save the current tenantless building.


#17

I echo the above; it is the hard work of R&J that has made the All Inn One, and without that level of dedication and drive then this risks becoming yet another wasted space. We already have one long standing pub in FH that has stood closed for over a year once the landlord moved on, another that has changed hands numerous times and at least two more that have appeared on these pages as being under threat of closure or up for sale.

I will miss the All Inn One, it is a nice pub, good venue, and mostly I’ll miss the people, but I certainly don’t object to a development that could well add to the area.


#18

I’ve had a chance to look at the plans and there is a substantial reduction in the size of the pub (from 360 sqm to 274 sqm - a loss of 24%). This is as a result of squeezing more bedrooms onto the ground floor to keep 66 rooms when a floor was removed from the plans.

The loss of 24% is roughly equivalent of not having the dining room. There will still be something of a pub/restaurant, but it won’t be quite the same, and there will be the loss of all the outdoor space, which is also a shame.

I’m not sure if planning policies relating to pubs includes the loss of floor space or outdoor areas, or just shutting entire pubs - which I know @CllrLiamCurran has done great things to prevent across Lewisham.

In Forest Hill we have seen a successful pub open in the post office, so I don’t think it would be impossible to have a good pub below a hotel. But I’m also aware that this is the only sizable pub garden in central Forest Hill - which gives it a special character (but also makes it more valuable to a developer).

We are fortunate in Forest Hill to have a number of good pubs in the town centre and I suspect if somebody was to propose turning the Capitol into a cinema there would be few objections.

The All Inn One planning application has lots to be said in favour and against.


#19

just to clarify, are you representing the views of the Council’s Sustainable Development Committee in this campaign?

y


#20

If we are talking about campaigning to keep pubs in historic buildings, let’s put our energies into getting the Hill reopened. It’s in the centre of FH and in the most amazing building. It could be an incredible anchor for Dartmouth Road.


#21

#22

@ChrisBeach You really should stop posting links to articles in the News Shopper as if they are sound sources of information (and yes, I know I was quoted in the one about Sainsburys recently).

“Met with fury’ turns out to be one bloke who used to go to the pub twenty years ago and Liam Curran taking the opportunity to do some PR for his campaign. If his original tweet was met with so many responses, how come none are quoted in the article?

If there is a genuine groundswell of support for retaining the pub, I wish the campaign well. Whatever the outcome, we need a thriving commercial venture on that site.


#23

Posted for interest only (not necessarily endorsement), and I think members ought to be entitled to post from local news sources if they choose to.

The forum will help build a rounded view on how residents feel about the demolition, provided people feel safe and welcome to post, and are not judged or criticised unnecessarily.