[CANCELLED] European Winter Market 9 Dec Forest Hill School


Is this to celebrate the state of our relationship with our neighbouring nations?

Or just a woke Christmas market?

Hi @ThorNogson, I noticed the finish time on the poster shows as 7.30pm so I’ve amended the calendar details to match.

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Is it a big surprise to discover that the UK is still in Europe, just not in the EU? Is it also a big surprise to discover that many religions have holidays in the Winter around the same time as Christmas, or indeed that not everyone is religious?


What do you mean?

I assume this is what in this country has traditionally been called a ‘German Christmas market.’ I would be surprised if that name has ever offended non-religious people. On the other hand I suppose it might give a message to people of other faiths or those from non- European backgrounds who didn’t know what it was that there would be nothing on offer there to appeal to them.

People bleating on about “snowflakes” and “woke” seem to be more easily offended than the people they seek to ridicule. How does anyone have time or energy to get upset about a “winter market”?


I can imagine that would make some people concurrently both happy and irate :slight_smile:

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Christmas if you want to use it, but apparently using Winter instead is ‘woke’ - does this assume someone changed it from Christmas to Winter - what if they were just using Winter all along :man_shrugging:

The Americans have been using ‘Happy Holidays’ since before I lived there in 2000 and if they can manage, then in 2021 we probably can too.

Given that Christ no longer figures in most people’s Christmas in this country, I have often thought it would be sensible and avoid confusion if the Christian festival and the non-Christian midwinter festival with its traditional accoutrements (holly, greetings cards, Santa, Rudolf, decorations, trees, eating, drinking, watching TV, shopping, European winter markets etc) were clearly separated and given different names. ‘Yuletide’ might be a good name for the latter - it is a historic English one, and could be presented as a manifestation of traditional English culture. ‘Christmas cards’ would become ‘Yuletide cards.’ The name ‘Christmas’ would be reserved for the commemoration of Jesus’s birth and would continue to be celebrated by Christians. Christmas carols, Handel’s’ Messiah etc would be sung as part of the celebration of the (Christian) 'Christmas. Not sure whether the Queen would deliver a Christmas message or a Yuletide message - I expect she’s prefer the former.


I like the idea but would one be allowed to sing Christmas carols around a Yuletide tree?

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A lot of sense, and would we also need to refresh the back catalogue of the high street shop playlist?
Last Yuletide, Driving home for Yuletide, White Yuletide, Do they know it’s Yuletide? I wish it could be Yuletide every day.


In answer to Michael’s query, yes, of course. Although all that stuff about the Godhead being veiled in flesh and the Virgin’s womb not being abhorred doesn’t sound very Yuletide-y to me.


Of course not, it was intended to be a reference to how, given the most recent disagreements with France over the Aukus pact and fishing licences, Britain’s relationships with the mainland may be entering what could possibly be described as a ‘European Winter’.

Also, of course not.

I was wondering if this market is of a traditional Christmas market theme but is branded as ‘European Winter’ (for reasons of increased inclusivity being what I meant by ‘woke’ @starman ). I would not be surprised, particularly given FHS’s Stonewall award.

I did not intend the term ‘woke’ to be read as a pejorative one. Perhaps that ship has sailed.


Great, if the local school has a Winter Market, and the local Bonhoeffer Church has a German Christmas Market then everything seems wonderful. Sorry, it’s quite easy to misinterpret the W word as it’s usually used in the media to imply some kind of intentional war on Christmas or whatever.


Here’s a thought. Maybe the school decided to call it ‘European Winter Market’ because it’s not strictly a German market as other European countries may be represented. So many German Christmas markets in the UK which have nothing German about them apart from the name.

As for ‘Winter Market’. It’s on the 9th December so maybe they didn’t want to offend the ‘Christmas is getting early every year’ group.

Who knows their thinking. It’s a local school trying their best to fundraise and bring some joy to the local community.

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I see the term ‘Christmas market’ used much more often than ‘German Christmas market’. ‘Christmas markets’ have been held in several European countries other than Germany for hundreds of years.

15 days before Christmas Eve… 9 doors on the advent calendars are open… Supermarkets have been selling Christmas items for 44 days :wink:. But yes, no doubt some would say this is to early.

Interestingly, it seems before Christmas markets we had ‘December markets’.

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Perhaps ‘progressive’ would have been a better choice.

And in Germany too. A few years ago I went to the Munich Chridtmas Market and bought a traditional German hand carved wooden shooting star ornament. It wasn’t until I got it home that I noticed “Made in Italy” stamped, in English, on the back.

Bit like the disappointment when I spotted the “Made in China” label on the Spanish shawl I bought in the old Alhambra shop on Kirkdale.


It was probably made in Tirol in the Italian alps - they all speak German there anyway and they’re just as big on Christmas too. The China thing would annoy me more TBH!

To sort of answer your question, I believe the event has some involvement from the languages team at the school, so I assume (and it is an assumption) that is where the European bit will come from.

Either way, I guess it will double up as a fundraiser for the school so hopefully will prove a success.