Careful in Lewisham's 20mph zone - Speeding fines increase 24 Apr 2017


The same sort of arse that sits right behind you riding in the bus lane, then overtakes and pulls in immediately at a bus stop? I know them SO well.

I don’t have any issues with making a whole bunch of roads 20mph, ALL residential roads for a start. But Brockley Rise, Stondon Park, Brockley Road… seriously? And that is just a single example. I did wonder if the off peak bus timetables would be rewritten to allow for the decrease in permitted speed. Have yet to look into this further.

The average speed in London is a very awkward thing to calculate, as it is based on hot spots, and not entire journeys. Also an average speed is very different to the speeds you are permitted to travel at on a clearer road. “making up time” is the phrase most used.

The ability to drive at a predetermined speed along a long road in London and hit all greens in pretty much a thing of the past. With junctions and roads lights being controlled by various bodies, and each having a specific aim. Not to mention the junctions controlled by TfL which are frequently adjusted depending on traffic volumes and flow.

At the end of the day, the roads are a nightmare. They will never be “safe”. The sooner people take responsibility for their own actions, and take more care, the safer each person will travel. Cycling, I am torn between my #1 enemy. Pedestrians can be ignorant and bloody dangerous, crossing where they please and with no care of the dangers around them. Distracted drivers are another, but can usually be spotted with ease. But malicious drivers who don’t wish you to pass them while stuck in traffic, they are appalling, and drive all manner of vehicles.

Anyway, I digress from the 20mph limit. IMO, it is too wide spread, especially for roads which move large volumes of traffic. There are always going to be people pushing the limits, so I fear that as we get used to slower moving traffic, there is less awareness of the dangers that roads pose.


My feeling is that overall our society has become too car-centric. I have noticed that car drivers generally behave as if they should have right of way. What makes a car driver’s journey more important than a pedestrian’s? There seems to be something that happens to many people (not everyone!) when they get in a car that makes them determined to get everywhere as quickly as possible and park as close as possible, with disregard for the safety of others.

So I do find the 20mph limit frustrating at times, I can also understand the reasoning for it.


I’m often surprised how quickly some drivers want to get to the next red light.


@Daffodil and @starman - have you considered that our many local traffic “calming” measures and punitive speed limits might have the unwanted side-effect of making drivers agitated, more impatient, and more aggressive?


Maybe off topic but the south circular should be moved , it was created as a avoidance of London but London has grown and it is not fit for purpose anymore, any other country in Europe would have done that ages ago and the EU paid for it, it should be at least tunnelled at some points like forest hill or Catford , apply for grant while the uk is still in the EU


If drivers are unable to control their emotions over perceived annoyances then they shouldn’t be on the road.


If councils fail to consider the side-effects of obvious irritants on human beings, they shouldn’t be responsible for road infrastructure.

Imagining that all drivers will always be (or should always be) unflappable machines is idealistic and naive.


Agreed re south circular but re funding, one of the richest parts of the EU is unlikely to get a grant for this. Most counties in Europe fund this sort of thing via capital expenditure themselves. The local councils do not have access to the sums required, only central government can do that here currently.


That is definitely another topic and one worth starting a discussion on, if you are interested. I suspect there are people here with a wealth of knowledge about what has been proposed over the years and what has been deemed feasible and not.


Straw man


Fair point. Have edited “emotionless” to “unflappable”


In my (ahem) safer driving course following a speeding misdemeanour I learnt that in a 20mph zone driving in 2nd was a good way to ensure your car doesn’t run away with you and they made the point that you drive the car, not the other way round. In a 30 zone driving in 3rd, same principle. Fuel use differences in modern cars were said to be negligible. Doesn’t stop idiots tailgating you, but it is perfectly possible to drive at the limit- if you make that your choice.


I don’t doubt 2nd gear would help keep us at slower speeds, but is it advisible at 20mph?


My only issue when driving with the new 20mph limit in London was I spent more time checking my speed than looking at the road. Not a good thing to be doing.


Interesting to see that advice. Try it though. On a speedbumped road , think Cranston or Sunderland it works fine in my small car without unduly high revving but probably varies according to what car you drive.


Agreed, my Volvo is a pain to drive at 20mph as it is not happy in second and chugs along in third.


I suspect that if you hit some of the speed bumps on Sunderland Road doing 20mph in a lot of cars, you’ll be on here shortly afterwards looking for details for a reasonably-priced garage to repair your car.