There’s an interesting hole in the road, near No 97 Devonshire Rd (between the junction with Ewelme Rd and Woodcombe Crescent). I don’t want to be alarmist and suggest it’s a sinkhole, but there appears to be a sizeable cavity under the road. My pictures don’t really do it justice.
The road is open to HGV’s and all other traffic as usual.
I don’t think I’d call that alarmist. I’d be a bit concerned too. Only caveat might be if it’s been checked and there’s merely a large pothole underneath?
Hi @DevonishForester, Devonshire Road is actually not open to large HGV’s - it has a weight limit that the council and TfL chooses to not police (I see larger vehicles everyday).
Have you reported to council as drivers on Devonshire often ignore plastic barriers and drive straight through them (seriously)
Holy shit! I just wandered past there. At least 4 foot deep and longer than 6 feet! Only 3-6 inches of tarmac holding up the road
Unfortunately, the prohibition is only during specified times - at night during the week and weekends except Saturday morning.
Not sure how long it’s been like that. Nothing says deep hole around the barriers. Surprised they haven’t filled it in & no one there working on it either, barriers are quite close to the hole adding more weight from cars/vans/lorries, when passing. Does anyone know when they’ll be fixing it?
When I went along the barrier was actually overhanging the hole - presumably from having been hit.
I did move it
Surely a void of this size under a road should be repaired ASAP? Not trying to be an alarmist, but what if there was a fire on Devonshire road and a responding fire engine got trapped?
@swagger we would have to call the door brigade to bring their ladders so they could climb out of the hole!
I’m surprised they haven’t closed that stretch of road completely. There have been sinkholes elsewhere in Forest Hill (in 2016 I think): on Perry Vale near the station and under the railway track just outside the station. My recollection is that both road/railway were initially closed completely while the holes were assessed and then partially reopened (single lane traffic) when it was deemed safer.
The railway sinkhole even had its own Twitter account:
https://twitter.com/se_sinkhole?lang=en
Those plastic barriers look like they’ve been hit.
I’ll go and put them on the pavement, like I did the sign, so they don’t get damaged.
Wasn’t the railway sinkhole due to a collapsed sewer? I seem to recall reading that the first time around the filled it with sand, concrete and ballast… then it came back and the sewer had to be diverted through fat pipes in the underpass while they somehow got robots into the pipes to repair the collapse and re-line the sewer.
Those plastic barriers are like a chocolate teapot.
Once when I was out cycling I mistook one for something more substantial and leaned on it in an attempt to squeeze by a bus. It gave way and I ended up in a rather deep hole in which a man was wielding a shovel. Unfortunately I was still attached to my bike by my toe clips so one of us was upside down and it was difficult to understand his swearing.
He was even less pleased so when my toe clips gave way and I fell on top of him. Luckily I saw the funny side of it even if he didn’t…
That’s hilarious, I wish I’d been there to take photos 
I laughed hysterically throughout but the man in the hole, who was admittedly working hard for his living, failed to see anything amusing about it. I have never been told to “feck off out of me hole” before or since… 
@Foresthillnick Your story has literally made me laugh out loud… 
I too wish there was video of it but very relieved that neither of you were hurt!
Hi all,
Just to say that I’ve raised again with Council officers.
Sophie
I thought these signs and barriers at the end of the road were vehicle easing measures related to Covid that they are implementing around the area. Shows how poor the signage and warnings are. Give absolutely no indication to the issue.
Those flimsy barriers are not adequate for that hole, as a minimum they should have heras fencing around the hole with concrete bases and nearby parking zoned off to prevent weight load nearby. But as best practice they should have the section of road blocked off completely with diversions in place!
This is just waiting for an accident…
The distancing signs are for the pavement works at beginning of Devonshire Rd.
The road closed sign should be further up the road nearer the hole so it looks different to the pavement works, many drivers aren’t taking any notice of it & are oblivious to a hole being there.
Can’t believe they are just leaving it like that till whenever they think it should be filled. If I had loads of hardcore, sand, cement & tarmac I’d go and fill it myself. Thanks to Sophie for raising it again with council!
Sounds like a quote from Father Ted
Please share their response with us.
As of Tuesday 7th July, The road remains open. Even without the cavity, there is pavement refurbishment going on. This means that far from expanding the space for pedestrian use, in light of Covid-19, the pedestrian space has been reduced by 50%. Width is restricted even more than that in some parts where the Council has failed to do anything about bins unnecessarily parked permanently on the pavement.
In the spot pictured below, it’s singe-file only for pedestrians.
The pavement on the other side of the road is out of use
Pedestrians could walk in the road, if it was closed.
Putting a “road closed” notice by the side of the road is not an effective road closure, as everyone knows.
Apart from the potential personal catastrophe, if a pedestrian or member of the pavement work crew gets hit by a vehicle, I expect this could be very expensive for the Council. Would your insurer pay out if you had knowingly failed to close a road that should have been closed?
Covid-19 has been with us for several months; the pavement works are scheduled maintenance not emergency works. There has been time to plan. There are no excuses.
The Road Closed signs are actually on the road but I’ve walked past a couple of times and people just drive around them. Unless the council actually close off the road off at the Forest Hill end to prevent access to the South Circ essentially making it a dead end drivers will continue to ignore the road closed signs.
I have seen cars driving in from station road the side cars come out causing issues. Some drivers don’t care about the road signs and do what they like when they like I was quite shocked to see this. Also scared!!
Hi all,
Below is an update from the Council’s Highways team:
The hole that has appeared in Devonshire Road has now been identified as a collapsed Thames Water sewer pipe. Thames will be taking over this site in the next day or so and begin works. I’m afraid I don’t currently have a timescale for the works, this will depend on what is found when they excavate the area.
The site has road closed signs plus diversion signs at the junctions with the South Circular and Ewelme Road. These signs do get moved around but our contractor does check the sight daily and return all signing to the correct position. Thames Water will be responsible for all the site barriers and signing in due course but officers will check to ensure their signing is adequate.
The pavement works taking place in the road do not have an adjacent walkway to allow for social distancing. A walkway would have to be 2 metres away from the workers and a minimum of 1.5 metres wide, totalling 3.5 metres from the kerb. This would reach almost to the centre of the road. There should be signs explaining this, showing the footway is closed and directing pedestrians to use the pavement on the other side of the road. The engineer looking after this scheme will visit the site tomorrow and check the correct signing is in place.
Lewisham Council at its worst explaining why they can’t close an already closed road!
Their point on daily inspections seems too few for a red route and an over height diversion for the biggest road in se London.
Walked past it again yesterday and the volume of cars disregarding the road closed sign resulting in the usual traffic blockage at the junction was absurd. I know it’s not the council’s fault if a driver chooses to ignore the road closure, but unless the actual junction is properly closed off the drivers know that it’s not really “closed”. They’re just not going to take a diversion when they know they can proceed straight on with their original route.
They have a solution for the volume of cars ignoring the sign. They (I presume Kensons - doing the unnecessary pavement repairs) have moved the Road Closed sign and replaced it with a road narrowing sign. Problem solved - until a lorry walls into the Caves!
Exactly - hence the need to physically CLOSE THE ROAD,
Yes, frequently, hence the need to physically CLOSE THE ROAD
And when he leaves, the signs will again be moved, hence the need to CLOSE THE ROAD
Yes it is. Car drivers have discovered that when Lewisham puts a “road closed” notice in a road, it often does not represent the facts on the ground. The Council bring their own signage into disrepute, as no-one believes their notices. If the road was properly physically closed, it would be impossible for vehicles to drive through. Pedestrians would be safer and the works crew refurbishing the pavement would be safer. In effect the Council is, as usual, prioritising vehicle traffic above safety of pedestrians and cyclists.
@DevonishForester I do agree - but remember this isn’t actually a Lewisham road - it is a TfL road and they do not give a shit because the problem isn’t on their road. (Red route stops 10m into Devonshire Road)
How would you do this aside from putting up a ROAD CLOSED sign?
If someone is dumb enough to drive down a closed road and falls into a hole then they absolutely deserve it. It’s like driving on the pavement in a company van and then complaining you get fired level of stupidity.
The same way Thames Water did it three years ago. Heavy duty fencing across the entire junction, additionally have the works crew park their vans blocking the road in case anyone needs the message reinforcing.
The A205 may not be, but most of Devonshire Road is. I am sure if there was any serious intent on the part of Lewisham, they could get TFL’s agreement as they have done previously. What possible objection from TFL? The Mayor is in favour of walking, cycling, social-distancing, It’s only Lewisham that is preventing this happening.
Yes, but the pedestrians, cyclists and work crew, don’t deserve to be exposed to unnecessary danger. It is also possible that a driver wouldn’ know the road is closed because the sign has been removed and there is no physical barrier.
I get what you say, which is exactly why I said the junction itself needs to be closed properly. But it’s still drivers fault. If a driver actively chooses to ignore a road closed sign then they need to take personal responsibility. I’m a driver, and if I see the sign then I don’t go past it.
The road outside our hose was dug up last week. There were 5 signs down the country lane leading to us that said “Road Closed”. People still drove nearly a mile down a windy country lane to find…it was closed.
I put a nice sign up on the road works saying “Yes, it is actually closed”.
Some people are a special kind of stupid.
Unfortunately when signs are used for closures that are completely arbitrary, drivers will stop taking them seriously.
I’m not justifying drivers ignoring signs, but just pointing out the human nature aspect.
When rules are arbitrary and are simply aimed at inconveniencing drivers, it’s natural that drivers will stop respecting those rules.
In this case, drivers seeing the signs didn’t know whether there was a genuine hazard in the road, or whether this was just another ideological road closure by the council.
What prevents either TfL of Lewisham Council from placing concrete barriers at either end of Devonshire road?
@SophieDavis, just wanted to say thank you for posting here. I really appreciate your updates from the council.
I know you’re under no obligation to post on this forum, and I’m sorry to see that you got an angry and shouty reply from one of our members above.
In this case the closure is necessary on safety grounds; it is not arbitrary.
That is the question I think every resident deserves an answer to.
I think Chris’ point is along the lines of the Cry Wolf story. If they make arbitrary closures then people become immune and ignore the signs in cases where they are closed on safety grounds.
@anon5422159 I do however disagree that the road closures in the link from the other thread are arbitrary. There are URLs posted there to closures being council policy to calm streets and make them safer for pedestrians and cyclists - perhaps you mean the selected roads appear to be arbitrary because the council hasn’t made their reasons public. Silverdale for example is a notorious ‘cut through’ as defined in the council’s strategy (albeit they called it something else) - seems evident that was not an arbitrary decision.
Yes that was my point. In this case, the road closure is vital. Which is why it’s dangerous that drivers have become desensitised/mistrustful of “Road Closed” signs due to the council’s recent ideological road closures.
Some boxes have been ticked, everyone can tell themselves that they’ve done their bit, moved it out of their in-tray. The reality is that the road remains open to two way traffic. The tick-box bureaucratic going-through-the-motions style of governance seems wholly inappropriate to a pandemic situation, and a dereliction of the Council’s duty of care.
Hi all,
Thanks for your comments, feedback, and the photos (they are helpful, and I have been passing them on to officers).
I understand that Thames Water will now be taking over the site (today), after which they will begin the repair works. This sort of repair usually requires a large excavation and will likely require the whole carriageway being fenced off, in which case it won’t be possible to drive through or around the site.
I will get in touch with Thames Water separately about their plans, and timelines.
Sophie
Last time there were roadworks and it was barriered off cars just mounted the pavements and drove down them instead all week. I won’t hold my breath that this won’t happen again.
It’s not a big deal as the section of Devonshire Road to be worked on can be bypassed easily using Woodcombe Crescent and Ewelme Road.
You’d think! But that’s the current diversion in place which people are also choosing to ignore. But we’ll see…
Meanwhile, the pavement refurb will continue without an effective road closure?
Does anyone know the process that goes through for approving the pavement?
There wasn’t any residents notification, it has massively over run the parking restrictions and the pavement they are putting in doesn’t match the rear of the road (or any nearby).
They are probably having to work more slowly as the Council has not closed the road for them.
Good question: the section they are doing is in the Forest Hill conservation area; did Lewisham’s conservation officers get to approve the small concrete blocks as suitable for the area? They are not the traditional style of London pavement.
Just to be clear, there are two sites. One is the cavity that opened up which we understand Thames Water will deal with in due course.
The second site is the continuing refurbishment of the Devonshire Road pavement. This work is restricting the width of available pavement at a time when all advice is to increase space for pedestrians. This is probably one of two reasons why there was a decision to close the road, the other reason being the safety of the crew doing the works. In case this has not yet been understood by anyone - although there are some notices about a road closure haphazardly placed near the works, there is still no road closure. If Highways Dept or Environmental Health decided the road should be closed, then why has that not been done? If it has been decided that the road does not need closing, then why are there “road closed” notices in the vicinity? The Council cannot have it both ways - either the road should be closed or it shouldn’t.
There seems to be no hesitation about closing pedestrian space
Because none of Lewisham Council lives on Devonshire. They only close roads where the councillors live (or deputy mayors)
We’re another week into the pavement refurbishment and still no road closure, despite the road closure notices.
On the very long thread titled Road Closures, Councillor Gibbons writes:
“Covid-19 has not gone away and social distancing remains necessary … we still need to create more space for cyclists and pedestrians. The remit and need remains.”
I couldn’t agree more, so why is there a total disconnect between the Councillor’s avowed policy and his administration’s actions on the ground? On the ground, it’s the same old default position, that it’s of no consequence to block pavements, just as long as the road traffic is kept flowing - at whatever cost to pedestrians and cyclists.
Councillors, if you are serious please can a road closure be a road closure in fact, and not a couple of notices haphazardly placed that every driver ignores.
The road signs (or lack of) are causing absolute havoc!! There is no diversion sign in place at the Woodcombe crescent junction so cars are going up Devonshire Road. Meanwhile there are diversion signs at the other end, by Ewelme Road junction, positioned in the middle of the road.
People are ignoring these signs as they can see cars from the opposite direction coming up the road so believe these signs to be redundant. This is resulting in cars carrying along Devonshire Road and having to reduce down to single file and back logging the whole road! The council need to sort this out it’s very poorly planned and executed and is just causing a headache for residents with the constant car horns and backed up traffic!
They closed the road to incoming traffic the other morning for the big grab lorry so it could take away the old pavement rubble. Then opened it up after the lorry had gone. So maybe just closing it as and when…
When the road was closed last time for major junction improvements. People still thought they could move it and drive through even though it was heavily sealed off & a large uneven road surface to drive over. Or motorbikes just went on pavement, nearly knocking a child over on a scooter one time.
Yes, we know it can be done, so why is it not being done to facilitate safety for pedestrians? (This is not a rhetorical question. I would like our councillors to investigate.) The pavements are narrow, and have been reduced by 50% where the pavement refurbishment is taking place. In some places, bins block the pavement further still to single-file only. Pedestrians have to choose between ignoring social distancing or risk walking in the road! The works crew would also have more space if the road was closed.
Hi, does anyone know when Thames Water are starting the works on the sinkhole in Devonshire Road? It’s been over 4 weeks now.
There’s a burst water pipe a little further up and they were busy digging up the road last night. Still fixing that.
Fun and games along Devonshire!
The pavement guys know the road isn’t closed for them and I have seen them put the signs into the road - the problem is drivers get out of their cars and move them
Once again another day of car horns beeping and profanity flying around by drivers who are ignoring signs and back logging the road. Would be really great if the council hurried the hell up with this sink hole or put a proper diversion in place!
I think that it’s a collapsed sewer rather than a sinkhole, so it’s Thames Water not the Council who are responsible.
Thames Water also for the nearby leak.
The Council appear to be doing the best with some demonstrable progress on the pavement replacement, but it’s still all to play for.
The works continue. It would be safer for the crew doing that work, and for pedestrians, if the road was closed.
Thames Water have come to inspect the cavity/sinkhole this morning to assess whether or not it’s something that they have to fix.
@nmsharma Seriously it took them 2 weeks to investigate a pit bigger than a Notting Hill studio flat?
Water leakage outside Drake Court Devonshire Road. Still leaking, Thames water there beginning of the week.
Now another water leakage starting outside 61 Devonshire Road. This will hold the pavement works up on that side of the road.
Perhaps we’ll need boats 
to go along Devonshire Road soon.
Let alone the hole still in the road further down from Drake Court.
Is Thames water just waiting to do a job lot?
I’ve lived on Devonshire Road for ten years and I don’t think there has been a single month when there hasn’t been a leak within 100m of my house. Thames Water do the bare minimum and hope people will stop complaining
Yes it looks like the hole in my original post, but full of water. Somewhat concerning that it’s right next to a very recent ‘repair’.
I had a text message from Thames Water this morning, warning me that they have to carry out an emergency repair in Devonshire Road. They didn’t specify which of the three leaks, within 100 yards of my house, they might be dealing with, or what time they might be working on it/them.
The owner of that car should probably move it soon in case it ends up on its side at the bottom of a sinkhole…
Fountain of youth 
& babbling brook how lovely!
Yes surprised how it’s changed over night 
It could be a cold geyser soon.
There was a huge leak around that area last year one dark evening, saw water spurting high into the air.
I think the owner is going for the ‘free car wash’ plan.
It may not be the part of the car they want washed.
If it really is a fountain of youth that car is going to end up with a 20 plate tomorrow and a much reduced odometer.
1 day later. The hole’s getting wider outside 61 Devonshire Rd. I’m assuming it’s wasn’t Thames water that have kindly put barriers around what seems to be turning into a well.
Such a shame and waste of water & money that this hasn’t been dealt with when first reported.
We had a book at school teaching children 10 ways to save our world.
It said by turning off the tap while brushing your teeth saves 18 glasses of water.
How many glasses of water will of been wasted by the time this is repaired?
I took a photo of constant tiny trickles on 25th July. It’s now 18th August.
Edit- (WHOOPS it’s 16th today.
That’s reduced my maths problem answer below by 12,960 glasses)
If any one fancies checking my maths problem
I make it 25 days from picture
Which if it were a tap’s flow of water (18 glasses per 2 mins)
Would equal 324,000 glasses of water wasted.
Happy to be wrong, it could be more or less, only did the math once.
However that is mains pipe NOT A TAP!
I have reported this and numerous other ones to Thames Water - they don’t seem to think fixing them is their problem.
Yesterday when I saw that leak the water was spurting up about 6" - seems to have calmed down
The hole has got bigger so relieving pressure of where it was escaping from yesterday possibly. Original hole has sunk into the bigger hole. I reported it too but when went to report yesterday said there is no problem at 61.
Picture Diary
25th July Tiny holes near pavement.
14th Aug sunken hole further from pavement.
15th Aug bubbling hole moving debris
16th Aug hungry hole ate bubbling hole.
Thames Water has decided this isn’t their problem and is a customer side leak!
Thames Water are responsible for the pipes on customers property as well now.
Last update I had from TW was that they are waiting for authorisation to close the road and/or suspend parking.
I hope the customer now does a land grab!
If I put some Rainbow Trout into the pool next to Drakes Court, what are the chances of seeing one of them pop up next to 61 Devonshire?
zero - within 20mins there will be 3 people with fishing lines in there!
@Foresthillbillie as far as I understand it - they don’t require for emergencies
It’s like some bizarre whack a mole game on the road, fix one leak, another appears elsewhere.
The one outside Drakes Court is fixed now I believe. It’s been tarmacked over although lots of barriers around it still. A beautiful horse chestnut tree was chopped down in the process. I guess its roots may have been in the way or the cause of the leak.
Well with all the pink barriers along Devonshire I’m sure residents could happily cordon off area for fixing & the road closed signs are still around for paving refurb. So could be done in a day by residents, if Thames Water need some assistance.
Or could fill/block the hole with the paving that is just being left on the road near Leyton Court rather than where they were keeping all the materials on Woodcombe Crescent. But that’s another bugbear. Where their piles of sand & rubble spilling over into the road. How many parts of the roads & pavement do the contractors need?
I have just reported it. Let’s see how long before they close the road, it’s in the same place that caused the road to be fully closed off before. Can’t remember how long ago, I just know I live on the edge of a colander.
Gosh you just close your eyes for one night.
Good job for reporting!
Anyone know if the cowboy paving gang is going to come back at any point?
To maybe, possibly finish the unfinished paving areas they’ve left behind - notably the Woodcombe Crescent corner which has just been left as rubble.
To clear away some of the unused materials/plant they’ve left on Woodcombe Crescent. This has created a nice little junk site for fly-tippers now too who also seemingly want in on the “let’s leave crap lying about” action. The random barriers left along the road that house nothing also are creating bottlenecks for traffic!
To finish the rest of the road. Not even a quarter of the road has been newly paved and large sections have just been completely untouched.
All round another great job by Lewisham C**tcil who consistently:
Start a job without community consultation 
Provide lack of signage/adequate traffic measures in place throughout the works to ensure optimum disruption to the road and residents
Get months behind on programme to ensure the pain is really dragged out for residents
Employ the biggest cowboy contractors to ensure all the above is achieved
@Lj You forgot:
Works in a conservation area without proper analysis if the works fit the area
Block the pavement during a pandemic
Either that one, or a new one close-by has begun a new stream.
[Edit] sorry, this one is near the leak reported at the top of this thread, near No 97, but other side of the road.
[Edit. Where’s @John_Wilson these days? Hopefully he exists and wasn’t a sock puppet]
Be nice!
Good to hear from you!
The latest leak is at No 70
Out of interest, has there always been issues (not just leaks) on Devonshire Road? Or is this a recent phenomenon? In the nearly 5 years I have lived in Forest Hill, I am astonished at how frequently the road is closed/dug up/otherwise banjaxed due to works of varying types. There seems to be something every couple of months. Traffic during rush hour on the road is bad enough but when there’s works, it’s a nightmare. I can only imagine how frustrating that must be for residents.
Maybe the price we pay for excellent water pressure?
Possibly 
Hopefully there’s not a significant underlying issue which is causing the other problems…
If there’s any “underlying issue” it’s that when it comes to repairing underground leaks, etc., Lewisham council, as with the so-called contractors they hire, haven’t got a clue what they’re doing.
Other roads in the area have frequent leaks; Honor Oak Road and Manor Mount are two that are in the top 10. Dartmouth Road and London Road almost keeping up.
Just had a text from Thames Water “It could take up to 4 weeks to complete repairs of this type in your area”. Begs many questions e.g. would this type of repair get done quicker elsewhere?
As well as water on the pavement and gutter, this leak has water streaming into an already waterlogged front garden and moving toward a house. Sadly the owner of the property - London & Quadrant Housing Association - couldn’t care less about their house and about possible consequences for neighbouring property.
Quite an impressive one in Honor Oak Road. The flow has been increasing over the past couple of weeks, some of the water making it as far as London road, Ewelme road and even Woodcombe Crescent.
