Good spot, @BrockleyCentral. Viva Automation!
Wow! A potential for up to 17 more trains an hour to be delayed!!!
What might happen is more trains to New Cross, and possibly an extra terminating platform at NXG (there is space to the east of the station) to allow for more trains in the core. The problem is that the excess demand is south of NXG, not north of NXG. So it would only really make sense to upgrade the core if they were taking it south of NXG.
This would be a good solution to the reduction in Southern trains on our line, as they are twice as long as the Overground replacements. It is possible that the pressure we have been putting on rail providers on this issue have forced them to find a better solution than just replacing Southern trains with shorter Overground trains.
To clarify, are you talking about the East London Line that has now been incorporated into the ‘Overground’ orange line? If so, considering Southern Railway…it’s an absolute God-send. However, it’s so popular, it’s an absolute nightmare. I feel it’s still seen as an ‘over ground’ train…but in reality, due to public demand, it’s a prime tube line. It’s heaving. I must have been intimately acquainted with every deodorant ever sold to mankind due to most of the armpits of London being hard pressed against my face on all journeys I ever take on it - and no need for a pole to hang/hold on to…the human squeeze of bodies is my scaffolding. Sometimes I have to wait 15 mins at Canary Wharf for a train home, because only 2 out of 4 go via Honor Oak (if you can squeeze on when it does finally arrive - oh, the fractious squabbles). The Mayor - who has so deeply let us down on his promises of affordable housing (see today’s Evening Standard "8 out of 10 new London developments confirmed as sold to foreign investors and sitting empty"
However, like Ken Livingstone back in the 80’s, he still has an abiding passion for his old haunt…transport. The Mayor and Govt. need to see that the ‘orange/overland line’ is now used as heavily as any Central/Northern/Piccadilly etc. etc. line… and those lines get trains every 2 mins. However - it’s all about 'who owns the track/signalling etc. etc. it’s very financially complicated, political, greedy, tendered out to the highest bidder and carved-up (hence why Southern has long been pushed out of ever terminating their trains into Charing Cross - which, in the past, at least they could do out of rush hour and at weekends) - trust me, I’m not singing the praises of Southern, I’m just saying… It’s a mess.
Plus - I’ve just checked my bank account - one day my journey cost £6.60 contactless…but the next day at exactly the same time - £7.70. And all because I jumped on the Southern train to my Jubilee line connection at London Bridge, instead of waiting 2 minutes for the tfl Orange Line connection at Canary Wharf. This may not seem so much money to some, but if I did this return, every day of the working week - that’s an extra £2.20 a day, £11 extra a week, based on a working year of 47 weeks a year, that’s £517 extra spent on taking Southern. If you are blessed enough to have an alternative route via tfl - take it and don’t fill the Shareholders pockets of Southern.
In general I find the overground an awful experience every time I am forced to take it and wish we would get more Southern trains than overground trains, always get a seat in the mornings and hardly delayed or cancelled
I remember it’s first few months as being empty trains then, Boom.
To clarify, that is 24 trains per hour between Surrey Quays and Dalston Junction. We’d get an extra 2tph bringing it up to 10tph between New Cross Gate and Sydenham.
However as been mentioned before, there is a caveat to this improvement, we’d lose two Southern trains per hour in the morning peak to London Bridge to slot these services in from December 2018.
The other service that would receive improved services is the Clapham Junction line which will go up from 4tph to 6tph.
I remember when there were Southern only trains to London Bridge - what a joy that was, not getting on some trains, and then not getting on the connecting tube at London bridge where the gates were often shut due to overcrowding.
Then the Overground started, and it was brilliant, virtually empty, air conditioned!! and fast.
Unfortunately many other people realised this, many other people moved here because of it and now it’s nice and busy! I usually get in to work for 8am so if you can do an earlier shift that is a lot better, but going in for 9 is more difficult (though always much better post Canada Water).
Dependant on where you are going, cycling or the trains to London Bridge should be an option?
If the Overground trains weren’t so crowded, more people would use them…
I’m here till Tuesday. Tell your friends.
But seriously, for those of us who remember having to stand crammed in the guard’s van of the doorslammers, the Overground is still a luxury.
Hi Gillipops, just trying to understand this. Is the reason for the different charge, that Southern charges more before 9.30, but the Overground does not?
BTW I enjoyed your poetic description in your earlier post of sardine life on peak-hour trains.
I was actually surprised at how quick the change happened, in terms of the Overground filling up and the trains emptying.
All the above posters proof the point that we need a balance and cutting more trains just will force more people on the overground my fear is that we will lose all train services into London Bridge one day which would isolate the area more than before the overground arrived
Changing between National Rail and London Underground at London Bridge (or Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross or Waterloo East) always increases the fare. For example:
This image shows fares from Forest Hill to Kings X. If you travel to Highbury and then 1 stop on victoria line to Kings x, it will cost £3.30 at peak times, or £5.10 if changing at London Bridge.
Yes I get that but what about if you get to Charing Cross ? My weekly ticket is £24 rather than £40 for using tube
My season ticket to Waterloo East has been allowing me to travel via Canada Water whenever I want. Much better than paying 50% extra for a travel card.
I used to love going by Southern, because, as you say - their trains emptied out in favour of the Overground and I could luxuriate in a seat, reading my free Metro and check whether I’d got lipstick on my teeth (although I was ignorant that it was costing me more because it was before 9.30am compared to tfl). Their trains are still ‘civilised’ compared to the Overground crowding, but I never get a seat any more. Plus, when you take as long a journey as I’m doing right now, it’s the ‘interchanges’ that can make your journey extra pleasant or extra hell - especially when you have 3 changes, as I do at the mo. When I pounced like an opportunistic coiled spring onto the Southern train to London Bridge, I couldn’t believe (at the other end) the new ‘foot journey’ in the underground passages to the inter-change. You used to get off the train at London Bridge, traipse like a glazed-eyed morning zombie to the ticket barriers, come out onto the concourse, stumble maybe 20 feet to the escalators (that did all the work for you), perambulate a little way through the musty, atmospheric bowels of the old brick (exposed) arches with the odd shop inside selling bags of decidedly undesirable ‘healthy’ dried fruit and nuts and straight to the entrance of the Northern/Jubilee line… to usually find the shutters down due to over-crowding on the platforms below. But at least it was a 4 min journey from the Southern upper platform down to the Jubilee/Northern. Since the trillion pound renovation of London Bridge station that has taken a quadrillion years to do - you slog through an underground ‘interconnection’ maze that takes over a quintillion years to traverse…to get exactly back to the entrance where the shutters are down, due to over-crowding.
As I discovered that I’d just circumambulated this maze - the old Benny Hill ‘chase’ music was playing in my head… [parody version]
Not sure I agree, unless you think shoes on seats is ‘civilised’. The Overground trains have solved that problem by having all seats side-facing.
I love the overground when its not super crowded. I just start work 30 mins earlier.
Made me reminisce about the days of Connex when I would get the fast train from FH to LB, without stopping at HOP or Brockley.
Even when the train was crowded there was usually space in the luggage wagon for twenty or thirty people with little to hold on to, or jammed in as close as possible in the gangway outside the 1st class compartments.
The trains have definitely improved since last century.