Extension of ULEZ to South Circular in Oct 2021

sadiq

#1

So it looks like plans to extend the Ultra Low Emission Zone out to (but not including) the North & South circulars - effectively bisecting Forest Hill - is underway, and TFL are currently running a consultation on the plans set by Sadiq Khan.

Any vehicle which doesn’t meet the below emission standards will be subject to a daily £12.50 charge.

Vehicle Type Minimum Standard
Motorbike Euro 3
Car (Petrol) Euro 4
Car (Diesel) Euro 6

Further details and a link to the consultation forms can be found here: https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3b/?cid=airquality-consultation

Whether you agree with it or not, it’s definitely worth a read and submitting a response to the consultation back to TFL.


Meet Sadiq Khan’s air pollution advisor - 29th Jan 7-9pm
#2

The implications on local traffic could be serious - people will be forced to drive through Forest Hill to avoid entering the ULEZ.

Also very disappointing to see filthy diesel black cabs exempted from the charge.

Related discussion: Mayor plans to introduce Ultra Low Emission Zone in April 2019


#3

Absolutely - but great for Honor Oak Park though!
The Sth Circular Road would be the carrier of traffic which would otherwise use Honor Oak Park, Honor Oak Road, Wood Vale, Forest Hill Road and Brockley Rise etc; and the already over-stretched Dartmouth Road, together with many the roads round Perry Vale, Kirkdale and Sydenham Hill, would become major arteries feeding traffic around the periphery and onto the Sth Circ, which would need to be renamed ‘THE STH CIRCUMVENTION’ [of the ULEZ].
This would be unsustainable to Forest Hill.


#4

Don’t large vehicles already use the South Circular as their main route? I can’t see it having a massive impact because currently there’s not a shorter way to get around? I could be wrong.


#5

Is there any discount available for people with older cars who either live within the south circular or just outside it?
It would seem unfair if different rules applied if you lived on Rockbourne Road rather than Westbourne Drive.


#6

We are not proposing any sunset period for residents living in the expanded ULEZ area. All residents living in the ULEZ, up to the North and South Circular roads (including central London), would need to comply with emissions standards or pay the daily charge from 25 October 2021.

They have improved the car lookup service to see if your car qualifies or not and mine doesn’t…
So for me it will cost me £12.50 to drive to my allotment! The car or the plot will have to go or maybe it is time to think again about that move elsewhere. At least I live outside the area so I will be allowed to drive South - just not North - everyone inside the area who will be liable has some serious decisions to make…


#7

Just checked my 2015 Mazda diesel and it’s within ULEZ rules. Phew.


#8

By not offering a sunset period they are proposing earlier implementation for residents than in the original ULEZ. This info is in the discounts and exemptions guidance:

Discounts and exemptions
Residents
Registered residents who live in the ULEZ will be granted a time limited 100% discount to give them more time to change their vehicle to meet the ULEZ standards
The discount will be available to those who live in the ULEZ from 8 April 2019 to 10 April 2022 and will only apply while they live within the zone
From 11 April 2022, residents must pay the full daily ULEZ charge to drive a vehicle in the zone if it does not meet the ULEZ standards


#9

Part of the proposal is to reduce the grace period for the original ULEZ (for which those discounts would apply) so that it expires on implementing the extended ULEZ In Oct 2021. At that point no residents within the ULEZ (either in the original or extended zone) recieve any discount of any kind.


#10

Ah, thanks.


#11

My car wouldn’t be meet the requirements so I’d have to pay or get a new car (or can you retrofit old cars? my car is old but good condition), But I’m supportive of this. Something needs to be done about the air quality in London and it’s going to take lots of small changes - car by car, tree by tree - to get there.


#12

Like you I am not opposed to this but I think it needs to be thought through and other options considered.
Personally I drive very little - mainly the odd trip down to Portsmouth and then a few short journeys around London mainly to the plot which is three miles away. I have had my current car for about 9 years (SAAB Sportswagon) and I average less miles than I do on my bike so even though my car does not meet the standard I actually pollute far less then the average driver.
For me buying a new car could result in more emissions when you take into account the externalities associated with production.
I also think that this will create issues for places like FH which are on the boundary as drivers avoid the tax and switch roads - maybe even driving further and creating more pollution.
In short I think it is a blunt sword - I can pay the tax and drive 20 ft into the zone but for the same money I can drive in it all day so the price is not related to the amount of emissions I create.

Naturally like all base taxes it is also regressive.

I don’t know what the answer is but I am not forcing people to buy new cars is necessarily it.


#13

This is an interesting article


#14

My car wouldn’t qualify either. I could see myself having to pay the charge whether going to Dulwich Park or just taking my son to a match in the local football league which stretches from Kent to Southwark. I wouldn’t get many benefits as many of the cars driving/idling round where I live would not need to be compliant. I would prefer to see it extended to the M25/TFL road jurisdiction as I am going to be affected by it. I’d prefer to be in it and get the benefits of it rather than just outside where I would get no benefits but just additional pollution from those trying to avoid it.


#15

Save the planet by making more cars.

Oh yeah… and hit motorcyclists who contribute less than 1% of NOx in total, but will now have to indirectly support the manufacture of even more machines.

These things should be done nationally, not locally imo. I see Islington are introducing a £2 per hour parking surcharge on diesel cars from January too (saw a planning notice last week).

I really do think air pollution needs sorting, but we need some joined up thinking and some serious action, which is going to impact everyone on a daily basis as far as I can tell. A complete change in the way everything is done…

As it happens, I saw this coming and we recently upgraded to a larger car due to growing family and I refused to invest in diesel or older vehicles, despite the huge range available on the second hand market. Would have liked to consider hybrids, but there simply isn’t the range or affordability.

So… I’m alright Jack. But my son still has to play in a playground by the Bell Green gyratory, breathing in those fumes into his body, which will not likely change with this extension and could become worse.

To think, we knew about all this when I was a child and I’m now in my 40s and nothing really seems to have changed. In fact, whilst taxing motorists for polluting and telling everyone diesel buses and taxis are the green option, we are fracking more fossil fuels out of the ground to keep the CO2 flowing.

And of course, we recently discovered that these vehicle emission standards may not actually result in reduced emissions, other than on paper (Volkswagen).

It’s easy to see how people might feel it’s just a money-making scam (I’m not saying it is). What a mess.


#16

@ChrisBeach appreciate you’ve just fixed my link but feels a bit weird that you’ve edited my post without asking me. Perhaps this should have been done as se23life not your personal account.


#17

Apologies @fran - I do normally PM people before making any changes to posts (which I do rarely).

In this case I just inserted a new line to ensure the link showed in a nice preview box.

I will, however, PM in future before editing.

I think it’s important that all moderators use their own username for any interventions so that we are personally accountable.

Note to all members - any edits to your posts will appear in your notifications so you will always be made aware.


#18

I only recently came across this BBC article:

How toxic is your car exhaust

Very interesting reading, and to me suggests that the targets being set aren’t going to help.

For the record, my car won’t pass. It’s a diesel, quite old; and I only looked at getting a diesel due to the prevailing government advice. Grrr.


#19

As primarily a cyclist myself, I voted strongly for extending the ULEZ to the south circular, and for bringing forward the date of the proposed changes. But looking at some of the other feedback and considering the fact it’s likely the A205 is just going to become a dumping ground for non-compliant vehicles, I somewhat regret my decision now!

That being said, while it’s a blunt sword, it needs to happen - it just sucks for me because I live right on the A205. A friend with asthma has had to shell out for an air purifier to try and improve her health; hopefully it won’t be as necessary in 5 years’ time.


#20

I also live just off the S Circular too just inside of the proposed ULEZ extension. I took part in the consultation and voted for the extension, mainly because something needs to be done about the air quality. I did think about what it might do to the S Circular itself, but I’m not sure there is scope for it to get much worse than it already is. Those who need to drive into the ULEZ regularly will start switching to cleaner vehicles. As other people have pointed out, the roads that feed into S Circular outside the ULEZ like Dartmouth Rd will probably suffer a bit.