What do you think?
- I support this action and will attend
- I support this action but won’t attend
- I disagree with this action
- No strong feelings
- Other (please comment)
What do you think?
Slightly off topic, but similar to the discussion in hand. I was watching the BBC’s show about plastics and got into a debate with some green activists on Twitter about using bottled water.
Now I have no issues with them doing the recent campaign in London recently which correctly raised issues surrounding the planet which directed their attention on the big corporations, but to dare to critisise people for using bottled water or disrupting people’s day to day lives when they’re trying to earn a living isn’t the right way of doing things to get people on board.
Frustrates me too.
David Attenborough, for example, created global public sympathy for the environment and wildlife – without inconveniencing a single person.
I wish XR could find a similarly positive way to draw attention to the cause. The way they’re going, they risk destroying public sympathy. They threatened to use drones to shut down airports. That would cross the line for a lot of fellow environmentalists.
Linking environmentalism with civil disobedience casts environmentalism in a negative light. Civil obedience might be dull, but it keeps society safe, friendly and co-operative.
Sky News also had an excellent strand called Ocean Rescue which exposed the use of single use plastics which used the power of television to get people to listen which led in the end to larger social awareness and the likes of McDonalds and co banning plastic straws for paper ones for example.
XR, Greenpeace and co need to really redirect their efforts into reaching the common person without being patronising and being borderline religious in their methods of persuading people to be more green as I experienced this evening, they can be as patronising without really getting anywhere to make my opinion different to theirs. Listening to people who aren’t in that bubble would be a start instead of patronising them for being different.
Catford is an absolute joke to drive through. It’s been like that for the ten years I’ve lived here. First you have the stupid light phasing that means most cars cannot get through the junction where Catford Hill meets the A205. The lights turn green and you can’t get through, because the junction is blocked. The road is constantly tailbacked. I’ve sat on a bus for 10mins plus trying to get up the road. The cars all cut through the residential roads to turn right onto the a205, as they stand a better chance of getting through the lights. There’s a yellow box on the junction, but not on the bit of the road that gets blocked. It covers the road going west onto the A205, which I struggle to see ever being blocked. I’d hazard a guess that nothing is going to change.
We all know it’s awful to drive through, awful to take a bus through and increases pollution with cars sat idling. I daresay people would like it sorted, but that doesn’t get anything changed. So I struggle to see how losing support by delaying people who are delayed every day by the road will make things worse. It may highlight certain issues and drag the council into doing something.
But, as we know, the council will tell you the roads are bad in one breath and then approve things that make it worse with the next.
So I support this action, which will no doubt make the roads no worse than any other day. Something needs to be done and David Attenborough’s public support hasn’t done anything to reduce the congestion on that isolated stretch I have picked out.
I suggest those with better ideas spend their time and energy carrying them out.
A more sensible solution will be when cars are either hybrid or fully electric. Uber, the private hire cab app have regulations on the type of cars that can be used which are mainly hybrid cars such as Toyota Priuses for example.
There will be a point when diesel, followed by petrol will eventually be phased out. Electric vehicles are getting better at covering more mileage compared to 20 years ago.
Buses have become more of a hindrance than a help, yes they’re cutting emissions from diesel guzzling vehicles and introducing hybrids. Forest Hill’s double decker routes will be fully hybrid from the end of August when the 197 replaces their diesel polluters with hybrids, yet with reduced speed limits and traffic jams have made them less reliable than before, which drives passengers back into petrol and diesel cars.
If this action takes place, what’s not to say that it’ll drive those commuters onto using their car or another form of polluting transport instead? On the other hand the XR protest in London did cut pollution down when they closed Waterloo Bridge and Marble Arch.
Interestingly, there are possibly divisions within XR; this doctor was against the drone plan:
Evening Standard - Founder of Doctors for Extinction Rebellion group ‘draws the line’ at sending drones above Heathrow
Its the old “lets annoy the people who want support from”. Then express surprise when it goes wrong.
I do have some sympathy. The South Circular is awful and the pollution is actively damaging the health of people in this area. Many Londoners do not need to make many of the short car journeys they take - so maybe it takes a shock or disruption for people to really consider changing the way they behave.
Very true, many people do not need to make long journeys, but some do. What about those on busses, alternative fuel vehicles and bicycles who will get caught up in this?
Well it’s not a perfect solution but what is? I am coming round to the idea that people are not going to curtail their car use easily so some headline grabbing activity is maybe needed.
Cars and traffic really is blight on our health and urban environment but any tiny action to try and nudge people in a different direction is met with howls of protest or excuses as to why THEIR car journey is completely necessary it is just other people who are the problem.
Who would drive in Lewisham by choice at rush hour?
I’m a big fan of pool riding. The cab app ViaVan offers this service, along with Uber Pool where you can share a ride in a hybrid vehicle and share the cost which brings the price down compared to using a normal cab.
Sharing a ride to work with a colleague is also a great idea, it cuts down on the amount of cars on the road. I’ve done it in the past and has worked out well for me in the past. It reduces the stress of travelling on public transport and helps the car owner with their fuel costs.
If Extinction Rebellion walked the length of the everyday gridlocked traffic, posting leaflets for Uber Pool to idling drivers, that would be a very positive action - helping people, rather than inconveniencing them.
The future is electric vehicles and efficiently-allocated ride sharing via mobile app. Uber is pushing both.
I don’t disagree in principle, and support the actions generally. However, they’ve yet to learn what the trade union movement (mostly) and Poll Tax movement learned decades ago: don’t hit the public where it hurts, hit the government.
Persuading the public is barely a task. They are mostly persuaded. And these events don’t persuade anyone anyway.
Hit the government in votes or income.
Good job there aren’t any hospitals or A&E departments nearby this disruption.
Well clearly some people do - we have pretty good public transport by the standard of the rest of the country or even other cities. Most of can also walk a lot more than we do.
At least make a start with using the bus and remove a 5 seater car thats often filled with one person?
Well there is the Ambulance Station behind Sainsbury’s so they need to get out either on a back rat run or onto the South Circular.
I support this action. It is annoying and it wouldn’t be necessary if governments were acting responsibly, but they’re not, so we are where we are.