Hard-leftists disrupt Lewisham East hustings

Agreed. I rarely look at this forum anymore as it’s just a political mouthpiece for an agenda it seems. A pity as I enjoyed the local info.

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No at all. It’s a perfectly valid sory to share. For the record I’m not one bit in support of the portestors actions.

Bias could be interpreted in the headline, the sources from which David Kurten’s biog has been selected and the tweets selected in support of him. (As a UKIP member many would consider him a ‘hard-rightist’ but there’s no mention of this). Also, this is not an isolated type of post as others have mentioned, which compounds the bias in my opinion.

As mentioned I’m a great fan of this forum and it largely works well (a smashing job) but to be so aware of its founder’s strong political standing could alienate some members. I hope you appreciate I’m trying to be constructive.

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Fair comments - but we are all free to post whatever take we like on these events.

We could focus on painting Kurten as a “far-right” person (which IMO, having met the man, would be a gross mischaracterisation) - but that would hardly be fair in the context of these events where he was shouted down by a white women who claimed he was racist.

There may be other opportunities you could take for attacking Kurten’s character - but in the context of last night, the real story here is the behaviour of the protesters, surely?

While definitely an event of local interest, I might not have chosen to quote this story directly from the far right website ‘Westmonster’, where the headline and video for this thread appears to have originated. The story in Westmonster, understandably for an extreme right viewpoint, placed the blame on ‘left wing thugs’ because it would play to their usual narrative and appeal to their readers.

from a different perspective, the story published by local media was that the disruption was by anti racism protesters, whose aimed to deny a platform (yes , I know…) to a well known extremist and alleged racist who planned to speak at the hustings, and who both Conservative and Labour candidates found themselves unwilling or unavailable to share a platform with.

The anti racist organisation in question presented the story thus:-
http://www.standuptoracism.org.uk/far-right-anne-marie-waters-for-britain-stopped-by-anti-racists-in-lewisham/

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So just to be clear, you’re criticising what you imagine to be my sources (incidentally, I did not quote this story from Westmonster - the video was on Twitter), but you’ll post an article whose rhetoric includes:

Due to the threat of violence from these alleged “anti fascist” protesters, Anne Marie Waters had already withdrawn from the event. So there is little justification for them to disrupt it as they did, causing it to be shut down. It was a peaceful event. Kurten was not preaching hate. I notice the woman who stormed the event actually singled out the Lib Dem candidate for abuse too. Completely unacceptable IMO.

I advise everyone to watch the video of proceedings rather than judging based on the rhetoric from either side.

apologies - I spent a minute looking for the source and Westmonster popped up immediately- guess it found its way onto Twitter too.

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Dear Chris,

Thanks for forwarding your posts. I’m glad they liked my speech - I tried to carry on in the face of all the heckling. it is terrible that the mob of thugs outside closed down an election hustings - we are in new territory not seen since the 1930s I fear - and Labour is heavily involved…

Best wishes,

David

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I agree, everyone has the right to be heard and the scenes on the video are unpleasant and over the top. Though freedom of speech does not give freedom from the consequence of what you say.

In this case I may have been in a more peaceful crowd that day:

“The latest scientific studies show that incidence of homosexuality in adults decreases with age, so it is unlikely to be fixed at birth.Study after study also shows that the incidence of homosexuality is much higher among people who have been sexually abused as children”.

This is bonkers. It almost doesn’t warrant a response - it’s the stuff of the dark ages and yet he is given a platform and fine British voters back him.

Finally and more on topic, despite his questionable outlook on life, he spoke reasonably well - but as ever for UKIP, much rhetoric about needing to leave and regain control of laws, there’s no indication of what our destination is and what laws we will overturn.

Hi David. I thought you did very well to keep your cool in such a threatening (and distracting) environment.

Whilst I find it heartening that a lot of leftists agree that the mob was wrong - I am still concerned that people aren’t clocking the SWP connections here.

As I’m sure you know, the moderate Labour Party (which is dying a sad death under Corbyn) once proscribed the SWP, which has an awful history and reputation.

Under Corbyn and his goons in Momentum we’re seeing tacit approval of the hard-left and their ugly tactics (although at least they seem to be working in favour of Brexit, for some small consolation!)

For “Stand Up To Racism” to claim that they are “anti-fascist” is laughable. Storming a peaceful hustings event to shout down any party they disagree with - that’s textbook fascism.

Stay safe David.

There are plenty of people with much harder and more unpleasant views on homosexuality. For example:

Would you “no-platform” half of all British Muslims, @Nylon?

I’m concerned at this idea of “consequences of what you say “ as a natural limiter to free speech.

It means free speech for some , up to a point , which I’m sure Anne-Marie Waters would have alluded to had she spoken.

Trying to disrupt the process of local democracy by threatening and intimidating behaviour is no better than what we see in some of the worst human rights abusing countries and it highlights the mess that the left is in . I doubt anyone at those hustings were actual “ racist scum “ and in need of being “ off our streets “ though I suspect some of the demonstrators fit that profile did they but know it .

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A few thoughts on this thread.

  1. The fact that there is, yet again, an agenda being pushed on this forum couldn’t be any more transparent if it was the Crystal Palace reconstructed.
  2. Yes dialogue is better than shouting people down but when our national democracy consists mainly of MPs shouting and hollering as loudly as possible other each other its hardly surprising.
  3. [quote=“ChrisBeach, post:18, topic:9503”]
    but that would hardly be fair in the context of these events where he was shouted down by a white women who claimed he was racist.
    [/quote] … I don’t understand why the fact the woman calling him racist is white is a relevance?
  4. Even if you’re right and Kurten doesn’t hold any racial prejudices - his homophobic (anti same sex marriage, LGBT education in shools etc…) and misogynistic views (reduced abortion time, ban the sale of the pill etc…) are surely enough reasons to expect him to be held to account in a hustings.
  5. The fact that chose to pull out a statistic about Muslims and their views as justification for Kurten’s views is both completely irrelevant and a worrying trend after your fervent defense of Conservative Councillor Karen Sunderland’s right to call Muslims the ‘new naziism’ is worrying. I dread to think what impression Muslim members of the community must think when they read these arguments.

These styles of threads are very depressing to read and completely detract from sense of community that SE23.Life initially set out to create.

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There are several different viewpoints being expressed by different people on this topic. A viewpoint is not the same as an agenda.

Parliament is a lively debate. That is not the same as mob intimidation, and certainly does not justify it. I find it worrying that people can be so blasé about what happened at these hustings. Democracy depends on freedom from intimidation.

That’s not what I said, or what I believe.

Yet you skirt around the fact that half the population of one of our fastest growing demographics in this country (and no, I’m not talking about a race) hold far more extreme views than David? Why?

SE23.life set out to create a platform for respectful debate.

It is not “anti-community” to write in support of free speech, and peaceful hustings for the benefit of local people.

On the other hand, getting offended on behalf of other people is not conducive to a healthy debate. Everyone is free to participate here and to correct any factual innacuracies in my posts or others, if they find any.

When you’ve twisted what I actually said about Karen into that shape it certainly does sound worrying, I agree.

I’m not sure in what way I’ve twisted anything? Unless I dreamt the whole thing you made many posts supporting her right to make the comment?

I would quote/screenshot but the posts have all been moved now to a thread I can’t access.

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Here’s what I said:

And as if my comments on Godwin’s law needed reinforcement, the article posted in support of the protesters by @ThorNogson compared the hustings attendees with Hitler.

As with Karen’s tweet, I don’t think they should lose their jobs for saying that.

But anyway, this topic should not be turned into a discussion about me and my views - let’s get back to discussing the events of the hustings, and the people involved in that.

Evidence that labour in any way supports this behavior please?

Perhaps you missed David’s post?

I didn’t and was in fact in the process of checking if that picture in fact relates to the events in question. The hysterical implications he used have already rendered sensible rebuttal difficult.

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