Is HOP being ripped off by TfL?



This topic has been bumping along for 3 months during which time I contacted my MP, Vicky Foxcroft.

People may be interested to learn that she contacted Sadiq Khan on my behalf and he has replied.

He writes, “I have no plans for zoning changes. This is largely due to revenue impacts and concerns raised by National Rail Train Operating Companies and the Department for Transport, who would need to agree to any changes”. He mentions his manifesto commitments to freeze TfL fares blah blah etc and that the existing zonal map has its roots in the 80s. “It sought to place stations into concentric zones, fitting into the geography of London rather than distance from the centre”.

Sadiq’s letter also mentions that the most recent instance of re-zoning was the Stratford stations, which was considered a key element to secure the Olympic legacy because of the increased value of land.

The upshot is that unless a big campaign were to get organised and had broad support from SE23 locals and councillors (both of which is unlikely) then the unfair distance situation is just going to have to be an anomaly that we live with and we will not get to enjoy similar increases in land values.

If someone can get a group together to fight this, get in touch with me. But I fear apathy is the real problem here.


Surely apathy could be overcome if everyone’s house prices were going to rise by 10%!!


They have already done that & by a lot more than 10%!


But they’d jump another 10% if we moved to zone 2 so that’s surely good reason for people to get on board with it?


It would be even more difficult to get on board a train in the morning as many people would go to the station for cheaper journeys into town.


Perhaps we could then introduce residents’ parking?


Residents’ parking is something completely different but equally important and equally unfair. HOP is the only station so close to zone 1, where people can just rock up and abandon their cars 20m away with impunity. I know people do this on their way to Gatwick in the summer, leaving their car for 2-3 weeks.

All we need is a 1 hour time slot when parking around the station is checked, say 12-1pm for the commuters and holidaymakers to stop abandoning their cars around the station.

If anyone is interested in this, lives close enough to the station to have a legitimate interest, please contact me and I’ll start another thread and we can lobby for it.


The council asked residents if they wanted permit parking about 5 years ago and it was firmly rejected


That was in response to my asking for one and it wasn’t firmly rejected. It was rejected without satisfactory research, possibly because one of the councillors lives outside the area in question and was against being able to drive her car 500m to access the station. Since then, the residents have changed a lot on my road, the main one affected, with older people having moved out and younger ones in and this year we are eligible to ask again. My hunch is that the tipping point has been reached.

The argument that it is unfair to residents compared to every other station of comparable proximity to central London is strong and wasn’t made last time.


It becomes a council cash cow which is why I always reject this proposal having seen the cost escalate elsewhere

split this topic #71

2 posts were split to a new private message


May I suggest that you should be grateful to even have received such a detailed response to your request, and let the matter go. Not only would it prevent energy being wasted barking up the wrong tree, but also let the public sector workers getting on with the actually important work they’re doing on all of our behalf.


Lewisham are actively carrying out a democracy review as they want more participation in local democracy. I think we should be grateful when people take time out to do something for their area even if we don’t agree with it. The councillors and public sector works are there allegedly to serve us and if things have changed in 5 years then it is reasonable to revisit it. Interesting to see the idea that there is this big gap between the old and the young in their opinion on an issue that you would expect would unite people who live on the same road.


6 houses on my road have changed hands (that I know personally) and in all 6 cases the sale was an older person retiring selling to a young family and in each case the vote has swung from not wanting parking control to wanting it. Very few people who pay £700k+ for a house would object to paying £150 a year to park outside it.


My response was in relation to a comment on Oyster fare zones, not the parking. Interesting that local democracy is mentioned though - surely there has to be some careful consideration as to what sensible choices are for the public to have a direct say on. The colour of the bin lorries would probably not fall into this category. And neither would, imho, fare zones.

The parking permit problem is actually an interesting one. Firstly, if there are that many commuters who park locally to catch a train, then surely the parking pressure can’t be that high as otherwise they would have long given up and looked elsewhere. Secondly, I suspect that the difficulty of finding a parking spot differs from one street to another, with hypothetically the busiest streets being the ones closest to the station. Assuming that this is indeed a pressing issue here, and that there is a majority of streets further afield where there isn’t a lack of parking at all, I wonder whether a plain democratic approach would actually be fair to the minority that is affected. There is a further point, which is that I fear that introducing parking permits may convince more to replace flowers and hedges with concrete paving - something we appear to strongly condemn in another topic.


These suppositions about commuter behaviour are not well made. Commuters don’t have to have driven from Tunbridge Wells to park here! For those of us who live in the affected area, I can assure you it’s an issue, that we can’t park outside our houses with children in prams, shopping etc. I happen to know that people who live literally 400m away will drive, especially in bad weather, to park nearer the station.

The area that was “consulted” last time was I seem to remember an area within a 300m radius from the station. I would say the initial consultation area should be 150m circle. My house lies within that threshold and I can hardly ever park anywhere near the house.

There is a large majority amongst the residents I know to have a CPZ implemented for reasons explained elsewhere. But to be fair I do know mostly new house owners.


* I have actually done this… twice :kissing_closed_eyes:


This post was flagged and is temporarily hidden.


Problem is it doesn’t £150/year, when I moved within 150m of the station the parking issue was apparent so it was considered in my decision making.


The process off how the decision is taken is indeed laughable due to its lack of transparency. I will do my best to make sure it’s as fair as can be this time.

What happened last time is a few leaflets were distributed to some houses, there was a councillor involved who declared to me a vested interest, and the results were counted in secret. This is not acceptable.

It must be seen to be impartial and accepted by everyone as such.