Lewisham Council proposing to purchase Catford land for the traveller community

Click below for more details over on SE6.life:

https://se6.life/t/lewisham-council-proposing-to-use-taxpayer-money-to-purchase-catford-land-for-the-travelling-community/123?u=chrisbeach

Aren’t councils supposed to provide land for travelers so it make sense to me that they have to pay for the land if no e is available

That’s really interesting. I had no idea.

Is that the same thing as Lewisham is doing now?

Councils are only being asked to identify land that Travellers would have a chance of buying. They are not being asked to give the land to Travellers.

It looks as if most of the current guidance was established by DCLG between 2012-15.

Lewisham Council:

No mention of the travellers funding the purchase.

Also something I find troubling:

I know. Which is why I was wondering the relevancy of the 2005 policy set by Prescott. It appears to be a different policy then that which is now used.

Thanks for the info - do you have a link that summarises the current law?

After Insight’s insight I googled these… only skimmed the surface myself.

https://www.local.gov.uk/gypsies-and-travellers

Actually there’s a good Commons paper which outlines the legislative changes since 2004. Can’t copy the address for some reason but Google

House of Commons Briefing Paper: Gypsies and Travellers: Planning Provisions

Got it, ta:

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN07005

Haven’t yet found any detail on a council’s obligation to use public money to fund land purchases

This might be helpful.

Looks like there is a pool of central funding that’s available - although incredible that it would be used to purchase expensive land in inner London?

Makes sense to me - travellers need places to live too.

It’s only for six sites, so is hardly another Dale Farm.

I’m also very sceptical about placing any weight on these so-called nature “conservation areas” in Lewisham - they mostly just look like a pile of old scrub which are replicated the length and breadth of the country. Incidentally, I note this piece of land is already being used as a “scaffolding yard” and is inaccessible to the general public - hardly a beauty spot worth fighting for, and I’m sure it looks a right state. Surely it is better to turn these pieces of useless scrub in, as you say, “expensive inner London”, into badly needed housing sites.

Most of the past and proposed sites (Thurston Road and Catford Greyhound stadium etc) have been turned into large housing developments. There is little spare land in Lewisham for a designated site, but it is every council’s duty to provide appropriate space. The alternative is that Perry Vale car park or Girton Road car park (or local parks) get used illegally and without any of the appropriate utilities available (not much is required, but it makes a big difference for the Travellers and for local residents).

But the council has made plenty of money from property development from other sites, so they should find a suitable site that can be used. If you don’t want them buying a site that they half own already, then you should be prepared for the council to use Perry Vale car park to meet their legal obligation, as has been previously proposed.

What’s wrong with the Crystal Palace caravan park. All the amenities already there and not that much per day.

Pretty sure that’s in Bromley, not Lewisham

A post was split to a new topic: “What on earth is Lewisham spending all that extra money on?”

It may well be but it’s pretty close and a heck of a lot cheaper.

I might be wrong, but I think that site is owned and operated by the Caravan Club so they may have something to say about the matter. As for price, cost is about £40-50 per day so might not be as cost effective as you think. I’ve always thought the site got a lot of leisure business so there might not be as much rooms as you think. Maybe good for a short term solution to meet demand but not the best long term solution.

You ever seen traveller driving a rubbish car with an old caravan? No council tax or mortgage/rent. £50 doesnt seem a lot compared to setting up a new site and the amenities. Maybe this is a way forward. Hundreds if not thousands of caravan sites all over the UK ready to take travellers. Why wouldn’t sites want them?

In looking for some information on the legislative issue yesterday evening I found a couple of interesting pages seeking to debunk traveler myths. I’ll try and find them again and post later. But the one thing I found surprising was that a lot of travelers owned their sites, a trend begun from Prescott’s 2004 planning changes noted here.

However, like many in our society not all travelers can afford their own land and need to rely on social assistance from the state thus, I guess, the need for local authorities to provide land on occasion. Given this is a land only deal with perhaps some services, seems still a lot cheaper than building new social housing.

Actually here is one that I was reading last night.

https://www.cheshirewestandchester.gov.uk/your-council/policies-and-performance/equality-and-diversity/gypsy-and-traveller-myth-bust.aspx.

Of particular interest.

Who is going to pay?

There are two options:

• Public provision - in the recognition of the importance of the need to provide sites, it is possible to apply to the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA) regionally for grants to cover a percentage of the costs for new provision; this is a similar process to how affordable housing for the settled population is funded.
• Private provision - the land would be identified in the Local Development Plans that could be purchased by individuals to meet their family needs or self manage, but not all Gypsies and Travellers can afford to buy and develop their own land.

Do Gypsies and Irish Travellers pay taxes and rent?

• All Gypsies and Travellers living on a local authority or privately owned sites pay council tax, rent, gas, electricity, and all other charges measured in the same way as other houses.
• Those living on unauthorised encampments, generally speaking, do not pay council tax, but they also do not generally receive services. There are occasions when basic services, such as a toilet or a wheelie bin, are provided and the Gypsies and Travellers might make payment for this service direct to the appropriate local authority.

Update: the Lewisham mayor has just agreed this plan.

There’s now an online public consultation where you can have your say:

https://se6.life/t/lewisham-council-purchasing-catford-land-for-the-traveller-community/123/6?u=chrisbeach

“Residential Traveller” = oxymoron

Yes - that’s what I thought - they have bricks and mortar housing, but they want to go back to caravans. So the council is obliged to take a site of nature conservation and give it to them? Doesn’t seem right at all.