The latest from the moped mafia in neighbouring Dulwich:
Our illustrious leaders tell police not to pursue these dangerous criminals, and focus finite police resources on catching innocent drivers doing 24mph instead.
How can we better influence these policies? I’m impatient at the inscrutability of it all.
On Sunday, I saw two kids with no helmets riding a scooter on the pavement in Sydenham and bumping pedestrians out of the way.
Two cars behind me was a police van.
It didn’t stop.
When are the Met going to admit that they don’t police the roads any more?
They are not allowed to chase riders with no helmets, end of. As anon64893700 says, you dont like it tell your MP to change the stupid policy.
My MP is too busy looking forward to his retirement.
Also, at what point does the safety of the illegal rider overtake the safety of pedestrians being bumped off the pavement?
Because if the police chase the moped, the rider falls off and injures themselves the police involve face being prosecuted, sacked and the poor lamb who fell off will no doubt sue. So would you chase them if you were the police.
This isn’t a hypothetical “they might hit someone on the pavement”, this was an actual they DID hit someone on the pavement.
As for whether I would chase them or not, at least if you chase them then you might actually see them for long enough that you could identify them again…
MH, I feel your pain. I have had two of these idiots attack me in the street when they tried to steal my neighbours motorbike, I have seen them trying to steal other bikes. What you and I do to them is one thing, what the police can do is another.
The local police would like nothing more than chasing and catching them, but cannot. It annoys them immensely.
I am sorry that pedestrians where hit but police in a van V scooter. The van does not stand a chance in London.
@anon93536262 Thanks for chasing this although I notice they didn’t respond to the question of if they would chase riders with no helmets. I have never heard of a stinger used on a bike, perhaps our SNT can let us know if I am incorrect.
The “Gang” were out in force Sunday afternoon on bikes, scooters and quads. No helmets, no plates and riding like idiots. I am sure someone will come along and say “we were all young once” and will hold that line until hit and they discover that the rider legs it, the bike is stolen and they have no chance of recompense.
we were all young once
Now, where is that dislike button? 
I phoned 101 yesterday for the first time - there was a group of four motorbikes riding dangerously up and down Stanstead Road (the bit that is one way only by the Coop). They would speed down the road and then come racing back either against the one way system or in the segregated bike lane. All this was taking place in broad daylight and making a lot of noise as well as being dangerous. They did this for about 4 hours, I gave a detailed description to the police of what they were wearing, the bikes, where they were and even that, after each little race, they were congregating at the rear of the estate. I was told a car would be sent out. But as far as I’m aware no one came out and nothing was done about it. These same individuals are regularly breaking the law and behaving anti-socially and the police seem to have little interest in doing anything about it. I’m very disappointed in the response.
I saw the same. Just becoming very blatant now.
The police were most likely at the cycle race.
I think the big problem for the police is at some stage people will have enough and vigilante action will take place. I remember being out with my children last halloween and a very large group of riders riding ridiculously (not on the pavement thankfully) but going through red lights at speed with lots of kids about ready to cross.
I don’t want 14\15 years old dying in crashes for stealing bikes etc, but at the same time what they do will get worse and worse. I’m not sure what the answer is as the big danger of course in chasing is the danger to others through these people’s careless driving.
As ever, the answer is not easy but the status quo cannot remain. The fact them can seemingly act with impunity is going to make things a lot worse.
Medium - long-term bike security will have to improve to make this a lot harder, short term a new police strategy is needed.
Oakr, I agree with everything you say, but “long-term bike security” isn’t really a viable option as you can’t really do much to make a motorcycle more secure beyond chaining it to the ground with an enormous chain which isn’t really an option for most.
I’m afraid policing is really the only option and strangling demand for stolen vehicles, but the police don’t seem to be interested in this unless there’s a smash and grab on a jewellery store that gets covered on BBC London. Anti-social riding (as evidenced by the above response from the Met above) is clearly not even on the list.
From experience in my street, I’d recommend everyone looks out for new scooters and motorbikes appearing in their roads - especially those without plates (bike covers may be used to conceal this).
If you spot a bike without plates, email the local police to let them know.
Bike thieves don’t stash stolen vehicles on their own property. They leave them outside your homes instead.
The police have a really tough job, regardless of funding or policy. Crims on two wheels are agile and hard to catch.
Hi Moto_Hodder
I’d say long-term it may be the only viable solution. I don’t what the answer is, but it should come from owners, security manufacturers, insurers, bike shops and motorbike makers or a combination of in conjunction with relevant authorities eg the police.
There is always a way, and eventually money will talk.
Al
Eventually an MP will have his bike nicked and then the full force of the law will come down on the little scrotes.
Are you suggesting one finds an MP with a cycle and…
I think you are right. Kill switches and tracking devices are possible now just not used enough yet or are too expensive.
I note that some remove spark plugs though this doesn’t prevent the whole bike from being lifted.
Cars used to be really easy to nick. Then eventually the insurance industry put pressure on the manufacturing industry and effort was made.
Not to say lifting a bike doesn’t still remain easy to do. But tech built in could help with a lot of the thefts.
Other than chasing bikes more vigorously, and with less consideration for human life, I am not sure what else the police can be doing? Going back to the efforts they are making, I think people get confused between what stories make it to the mainstream media, and which are never heard about. Just because you don’t see it on the news or in a paper, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen .
Trying searching Twitter for #OpVenice to see how much it is actually discussed.
Strangling demand? How exactly? A lot of these are small gangs, nicking bikes to commit crime, then dumping or disguising them when they become known.
Might be worth a read of the official statement from the Met on how they are dealing with things.
http://www.met.police.uk/documentary/moped-crime.htm
Granted this is more about the crimes than the thefts, but it’s the crux of the issue.
Chasing without authority
Had they waited the moped would have been gone… Right or wrong? Misconduct or doing their job?
Operation Venice
https://www.cityoflondon.police.uk/news-and-appeals/Pages/Police-crack-down-on-moped,-scooter-and-motorcycle-enabled-crime.aspx
Moped rider dies in pursuit.
I do feel sorry for the police, damned if they do, damned if they dont. As a policeman said to me recently, if you dont like the non chase MO by the police, lobby your MP as it is a political stance.
Car manufacturers did in the end, but is stupid is taking this long.
Saw the news story yesterday, not good at all.
I hope for plenty of Darwinian consequences from this year’s rideout, and for no innocent bystanders to be hurt in the process.
Well four down and one is a lovely Forest Hill gent
I dip into this thread from time to time to see if I see any pics others may post & that I may recognise.
One of our lovely locals that always pops in for a chat had a near miss yesterday with a fast quad bike overtaking a bus ON THE PAVEMENT outside Winkworths on D Rd yesterday, to ask if I had seen anything.
Apparently as traffic was slow or at a standstill they decided to wizz up on the pavement, overtake the bus & speed up the Road.
There was 3 in the end all with the blacked out balaclava type things covering their faces & NO HELMETS on!
Surprise surprise there then!
Sadly I didn’t see it at my end & wasn’t able to grab a pic…
He’s a bloody agile person as a dancer & yoga teacher so was able to throw himself against the shop window so as not to be hurt or run over - we had a convo about how this could be disastrous if it was a kid or pensioner- that could have been fatal!
Anyway I advised him to call 101 to report it & he was planning too.
I really think our local police are doing a great job on this & feel sorry for them having their hands tied because these thugs don’t wear helmets.
Just out of interest what is your basis for saying “our local police are doing a great job on this”? I’m not one to bash the police, they generally do a really difficult job very well and with incredible patience when faced daily with danger and provocation. However, I haven’t seen any evidence that they’re doing anything to combat this problem which I would suggest is currently THE number 1 issue of consistent illegality and public disorder causing misery to the local community. As I mentioned in a post in this thread a few days back, I called 101 about 4 particular individuals on Sunday, I gave detailed descriptions and told police exactly where they were (and at the time they were off their bikes and just hanging around) and was assured a car would come out. 4 hours later nothing, and they were still jumping on their bikes and racing around at crazy speeds often in bike lanes and against the one way system.
So unless you can tell me otherwise, I currently see nothing to reassure me that the police have any effective strategy for dealing with this problem.
@anon17648011 Twitter is great for police alerts. Recently there has been a lot of recovery of stolen scooters in the borough and arrests have been made, thing is, they don’t get into the press. Not interesting enough.
You mentioned Sunday in an earlier post and I said the police were most likely at the bike race. Lewisham police are regularly called into police outside of the borough, that leaves very few police in the borough. You will be quite shocked to find out how few police there are in the borough if a big event takes place over a weekend. Unfortunately the police have to prioritise what they respond to. It is likely what police there were available were dealing with incidents which had been classed as a higher priority to yours.
If you would like to change, go see your local MP and ask why there are so few police because trust me, the existing police would like some help.
Thanks - I will keep a closer eye on twitter. I completely agree that Police numbers and budget cuts are at the heart of the problem and obviously out of their hands. I just find it frustrating that there appears to be (and I may be wrong) an apathy towards this problem which, as I say, is certainly the thing that I consider is currently the main blight on the community (and as this thread suggests it seems others consider it a significant problem also).
All of the local police I have spoken to over the last few months are also very frustrated at the limitations put apon them. However, all have asked me to keep my eyes and ears open and report things like a moped turning up on my street without a plate or under a cover and being left for a few days. It’s either a pool bike (one which is used like a pool car by criminals) or they are seeing if it is fitted with a tracker. We need to work with the police on this one.
The police may not be able to catch them all the time but karma does http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/passenger-fighting-for-life-after-moped-hits-car-in-southeast-london-a3346146.html
Declaration of interest: I work for the motorcycle industry.
As it stands, most major manufacturers put parts marking adn RFID chips on new motorcycles as part of the industry-wide “Master” scheme (http://www.masterscheme.org/). This has had a very good impact in reducing the theft rate of higher end motorcycles. Anyone who has bought a new motorcycle from a main dealer will be aware of this scheme and you can see the stickers on new bikes.
However, we are talking about the theft of mopeds and cheaper vehicles and the illegal use of off road motorcycles on the highway (not all of which are stolen). It’s the same groups of people committing the offences, but making motorcycles harder to steal won’t prevent them stealing mopeds or riding off road bikes and mopeds illegally. The only thing that works in these scenarios is police actually apprehending criminals and taking their toys away.
Small world indeed. I’ve never looked at the M25 the same way since.
And people wonder why BMW drivers get a bad name?!
Seriously though, that’s an awesome result.
I love one of the Twatter posters saying the police were ‘OTT’.
Having read many of the replies to this post I would like to point out that moped robberies and the groups of mopeds/quads riding dangerously are probably not related. The groups riding are all part of a new phenomenon sweeping all over the UK known as ‘Bike Life’. Originally from the US it’s now taking over UK. There is a large amount of people in the South East doing this sort of riding and usually try to find spots that aren’t busy with public (sometimes this isn’t the case I know). I spent 3 months with seem riders from London to make a BBC THREE documentary on the topic which you can still catch on iPlayer called ‘Britain’s Most Wanted Motorbike Gangs?’. The police didn’t seem eager to give me any interviews on the subject but I did get to see a lot of the mentioned riding and how the guys lived their lives.
I would like to point out that I am in no means advocating the style of riding but I do feel that it should be pointed out a lot of these riders take Bike Life seriously and aren’t thieves.
@Jonny_Wright Thank you for your post. I have seen the video and posted it up here previously.
You say they take bike life seriously. Why are they riding motocross bikes on the road. Yes you can convert them and run a daylight MOT but they still need plates. No plates, no daylight MOT no insurance. So they are riding on the road illegally. They crash into Mrs Miggins from number 10 and what is the outcome?
I cant ride anymore because of a drunk driver. I loved riding, I worked a long long time to be able to afford my bike and paid a lot of money to insure it in SE London. Why dont they?
You mention finding spots that are not busy, the South Circular is quite busy. As for the American version, really! It is a bunch of people getting together in a group and feeling strength in numbers so doing what they want. I am sure you have Googled their sites, do they look like they are riding within the law?
The place for an MX bike, an MX track.
you are right Londondrz.
Vertical camera warning please 
I can’t speak for the hundreds of riders. And yes you are correct. All your questions I asked but couldn’t make the film due to time constraints and people at the top moulding the content.
I agree they do ride dangerously but my post was to stipulate the fact that the robberies on mopeds and bike life are two different things.
Quite a bit of discussion and a video on the Crystal Palace Facebook page so seems that’s where they went, after going through Sydenham:
From the posts I read it’s pretty scary if you are driving amongst them because they are going in wrong lanes, wrong directions, throwing things at cars etc.
I can hear a lot of police cars out and about tonight, so seems like something is keeping the police busy…
My father-in-law nearly got run over crossing at a green man at the bottom of Perry Rise is Sydenham last night by bikes turning into the wrong lane.
Got sent this today via email, probably best if everyone keeps alert tonight!
"Police are aware of a ride out event involving groups of motorcycles and quad bikes taking place across London during the Halloween period.
On Sunday, 30 October police received reports of a number of these riders engaging in anti-social behaviour.
Over the course of the evening offers stopped 20 vehicles - 17 motorbikes and three quad bikes - at various locations across the Capital. Eight people were arrested for a variety of offences including assault on police, failing to stop and dangerous driving.
A policing plan remains in place with additional officers deployed across a number of boroughs to tackle any offences or associated crime. Whilst we welcome the use of the public road network we will not tolerate any anti-social or intimidating behaviour. Police will take action against anyone found to be committing dangerous or careless riding, road traffic, anti-social and public order offences"
I enjoyed this …
'Whilst we welcome the use of the public road network … ’
Plod at his best.
I am pleased to see they can use Stinger on bikes. The scrotes thought they were untouchable.
I was surprised by this, I didn’t think they would. Pleasing news.
The most depressing 5 words in that story? “No arrests have been made”. Literally 50+ people openly flouting the law, endangering the public and being brazen about it before, during and after on social media. And yet absolutely no consequences.
And there’s the problem.
I have had three of my four motorcycles stolen. Can you imagine if the same percentage of cars were stolen, there would be uproar.
I too noticed that.
I think I have had virtually every single bike (push variety) I have ever owned stolen except my current lot. The only point to reporting them stolen was for insurance and as most of them weren’t insured most never got reported…
Never had a car nicked though…
This is a Londonwide problem and it is deteriorating rapidly if the stats are to be believed.
Sadly, I’ve seen plenty of illegal and anti-social riding in and around SE23, but the police seem to be disinterested and as a consequence, so am I.
Lets hope these vigilante groups which are springing up have some impact, because legitimate law enforcement doesn’t seem to be treating this with any priority and frankly, neither do the courts. I recently saw stories whereby two different gentlemen got roughly £300 fines and a suspended sentence after being caught. Meanwhile, I expect the average increase in insurance across London per rider will be far in excess of £300.
I’m not usually this pessimistic or down on the youth, but perhaps a few meeting with nasty ends might encourage the rest to be a bit more circumspect than a couple of stolen phones worth of fine does.
The VRM is the Vehicle Registration Mark, aka the number plate.
Which many don’t have and those that do are probably fake.
Just seen one in action - pulling a wheelie through a red at the lights coming from Dartmouth Road at the main London Road junction causing everyone to jump back on both crossings. Fecking idiot could have very easily lost control or a child could have moved the wrong way. No plates.
I’m so sorry I’ve pressed the icons on my phone & seem to have flagged your comment up! Now I can’t seem to remove it, hope this can be rectified 
️
I totally agree with all the posts on here & hopefully something worthwhile will be done about these worthless idiots soon.
Don’t worry @GillB, no flags appeared. It’s a two/three step process so very hard to do accidentally. You probably just opened the flag selection window and then closed it - no harm done
Thank you!
I live on Perry Vale and the number of bikes and mopeds (and quad bikes - do not start me on quad bikes) that roar past my window waking me up every single night is thoroughly depressing. I’ve genuinely contemplated - in my sleep-deprived overheated witching hours - standing in wait on the side of the road and hurling a brick at them. I wouldn’t do this (I don’t have any bricks) but I am at a loss as to how to get anyone to do anything about it.
I’ve spoken to traffic enforcement in the council, I’ve had Uber drivers rant at me about them, but the overriding outtake of the whole thing is that only when they actively injure someone - and then only if they happen to be traceable after they rip off back down the road - will anyone take an interest.
Exactly the same experience on Stanstead Road. Because it happens EVERY night I’ve wondered why the police can’t just choose one night at random and set up mobile road blocks on one or two roads in the area and actually try and have a crack down. But since they wouldn’t be allowed to deploy stingers or apparently pursue the the drivers it seems it might not have the desired effect anyway.
If they have an accident trying to avoid a child or dog or anyone who steps into the road when they’re haring round the corner, who’s technically responsible? Them for dangerous driving or the individual who dares get in their way?
(I’m not suggesting I’m about to hurl myself in front of one of these c*cknobs - I’m hoping natural selection steps up at some point and teaches them the hard way - but I think it’s an important question)
Fran you’ve said exactly what I think every time I see or hear them about natural selection. Rather one of them than a child. I don’t really understand how the police can be so ineffectual. At the very least they’re breaking the speed limit, can’t they pull them over for that?
How do they pull them over? They have no helmet, no number plates and most likely on a stolen bike. There scooters are nimble, can get through tiny gaps so what chance do the police have (if they are ever given authority) to pursue and catch these idiots?
And if they crash and hurt themselves there is a public outcry, the police get it in the neck again.
In this social media / fake news era, the public is very easily turned on the police if someone dies while being pursued by the police.
Unfortunately the reasons why they were pursued in the first place seem to get lost amongst the hysteria and activism.
To keep to the subject in hand: the fact is that it is almost impossible to pursue these mopeds in a vehicle, so it’s not really relevant here to get into the politics of that. If someone can come up with a cunning plan to catch these idiots, I’m sure the police would be more than willing to hear it.
I think the police policy is to spot and impound stolen / untaxed / uninsured mopeds while they’re at rest and parked. That seems fairly sensible. I’ve seen a few tweets from various SNT’s on this. We can all help by notifying either the SNT or the Council when we see a moped stashed on a street for later use.
While it’s a shame they operationally often can’t do much, it’s worth noting that when someone on a scooter was involved in a mugging on Brockley Rise last month, the police response was immediate and effective (though they did need air support to catch the guy).
I am slightly emotive on this subject having been attacked by two of these idiots when coming to the defence of my, then, neighbours motorcycle which two idiots were trying to steal.
Having two teenagers attack you with chains and bars is not fun so you will have to excuse me if I don’t think much of them or my opinions on how to deal with them may seem extreme.
Why can’t the police use stingers (or a series of well positioned stingers)? Surely any resulting injuries caused cannot be blamed on the police when these idiots have decided to ride these things at break neck speed without wearing a helmet. Confiscating bikes is clearly not working, things need to be stepped up to combat this very serious problem.
The Met have started to use stingers to stop stolen or other chased bikes. Needs a lot of co-ordination, though.
See plenty of police on motor bikes in central London, perhaps they need to get out to the suburbs ??
Also many of these gangs are involved in bag and phone snatches in the area.
hence the lack of numberplates.
often riding with balaclavas covering their faces as well as helmets so impossible to identify.
something must be done.
How often do you think this happens in SE23? I’m only aware of one in the last few months - for which someone was apprehended. Afternoon of 14th May, if memory serves (as discussed on the SE23 Mums Facebook group).
Perhaps this is the safest way to deal with the problem, but expensive. If a chopper is used to monitor the situation they can guide the police on the ground.
I think monitor from the air to guide ground-based police to the exact location where the bikes have stopped or can safely be stopped.
Next time you speak to any police ask them what a ‘starburst’ is and how easy it is to catch people when they do it on estates.
Just read half of the thread and wondered…the police cannot catch the offenders cause they are too fast and too quick, difficult to ID them, fake plate numbers. So, can local residents help the police? My suggestion is any resident reports the sight of these guys on scooters, one or group - does not matter. We can report on this forum in a dedicated thread. The exact place seen (as specific as possible) and time of the day, how many bikers, as much description as possible. Then a dedicated police officer or officers create a map of those gang sights with time of their appearance which allows the police to predict where and what time those gangs may possibly be. This will give them specific places to have unmarked cars to catch some of them. As in any gang group, there should be leaders - take them down, a group or groups will likely disperse. Also, those gangs communicate via messaging apps or social groups. Having in posession few phones of those moped gangsters will allow to trace most of them. But all residents need to come together to support the police to resolve this issue…if the police will be willing to take this approach.
There are a number of Twitter accounts for reporting such things now. Although not sure how interested the police are with it or how they can use the data. Be nice if it was of use.
@MopedSpotted
@StopMopedCrimes
I have often wondered how I might react if attacked or surrounded by these bandits.
The answer is in the article - one of the criminals produced and brandished a sawn-off shotgun at two plain-clothes officers.
So in those circumstances everything I have is theirs - and hope that they do not have an acid spray too.
Six years ?
Not enough by a long chalk.
Probably. But he was found guilty of “possessing a firearm” not of attempted murder. What is possibly more worrying is that the case against his alleged accomplice was dismissed. But it is difficult to form any sort of conclusion without examining all the evidence.
Given the minimum term is 5 years it does seem a little light.
Good thoughts @Michael.
However the ability to instil fear and intimidation in other people can be life-threatening in its own right. How many times have we heard of victims suffering panic attacks or worse, heart attacks, in the execution of these crimes.
And by deciding to take a sawn-off shotgun with them, their actions can undoubtedly be seen to be pre-meditated. They could hardly claim they were planning to hunt vermin.
I say again - not by a long chalk.
