“Mutiny on the trains”

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trains

#77

lol I would guess it would be for those who touched in AND out only.


#78

This is conversation I had with colleague this morning who lives out in Chelmsford. She has a season ticket. Claimed as her trains were cancelled. Didn’t travel into work later (as more cancelled or delayed etc) and we were allowed to work from home. Already has money in account. Wouldn’t make up for lost wages as only £58 if had less flexible job but helps towards huge season ticket cost. But didnt have to prove was at station (Which I believe wasnt)
Aware different train company not SouthEastern but interesting how different companies dealing with it.


#79

I may be wrong, butting seems to me that if you have a season ticket you are paying in advance for service for that period whether you use it or not. If service is unavailable, then the compensation is technically a refund on part of the price of the season ticket. Whether you actually intended to travel on that day is irrelevant. You’ve already paid for the possibility that you might.


#80

I’ve read all your comments, all valid in their own way.
I heard I think on the news that an old train in front of the one that was stuck had lost power because of the ice etc, so couldn’t proceed any further, so held the train behind up. I also heard that a young man on the train had a panic attack, wanted to get off & subsequently spooked the other passengers. I can’t say I blame them for wanting to get off, apart from it being cramped, cold, dark, they must have been also very tired & frustrated. Surely the fire brigade & NR could have got there sooner to release them.
Also on the above point I have a friend who will not go anywhere near a packed train, or go on tubes at certain times as she knows she will get in a panic, so if she had been on there as she just had no other means of getting home that night, she would have done exactly the same thing. I like to think she just wouldn’t have got on the train when it wasn’t so packed, but these situations just can’t always be avoided when you are tired, cold & just want to get home.


#81

I am exactly the same, not a nice feeling at all.


#82

Full of admiration for those on the train who managed to remain as calm as they did for as long as they did.

In the 80’s I was involved in a shunt at Kensal Rise.

I was on a local train which ran into and over the back carriage of a stationary underground train. Some of you may remember the rather dramatic pictures.

Many lives were saved that day by the prescience of the underground guard who had walked back up the track and spotted the oncoming train, ran back to his unit and rapidly evacuated everyone as far forward as he was able.

But back on topic - it took me more than a year to re-learn to remain calm any time a train stopped outside a station for more than a few minutes and to convince myself there was no danger.

So once more, fair play to those who maintained even a modicum of calm.


#83

This would suggest serious questions are going to be asked. And seemingly, the right sort of questions.


#84

Have received an update that RAIB will complete their Preliminary Examination Review and the outputs will be considered by a senior panel today. This panel will decide on what course of action will be taken next.

Their decision will be published later this week.

On a point I raised myself earlier about witness engagement, RAIB have already collected evidence published on electronic media by witnesses/passengers. Accounts of events linked to this forum have been examined also.


#86

Fantastic news, the findings will be interesting for sure.


#89

In trying not to pre-judge RAIB outcomes, i was not as clear as I should have been.

The outcomes could take one of three courses, - decide to conduct a full investigation, decide to publish a safety digest (a briefer summary of recommendations based on known facts) or make no further enquiries.

I have no foresight as to any decision that will be made today…


#93

RAIB have announced formally this afternoon (13 Mar 2018) at 15:00 that they will investigate the events following the stranding of trains in freezing weather, near Lewisham, 2 March 2018.

Following a preliminary examination of the circumstances surrounding the events near Lewisham on Friday 2 March 2018, the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) has decided to launch a full investigation. Further details of the investigation and its scope will be published on the RAIB’s website within the next fortnight.

Link to announcement here:

Investigation into the events following the stranding of trains in freezing weather


#94

Cheers for the update.


#95

Interesting angle on the matter. Sure to infuriate some.


#96

Very interesting - another version of events from a single point of view.

This will test RAIB to sort out the conflicts in these reports - but that is what they do.

Noticeably the SE tweet on the News Shopper piece is timed at 21:15 and refers to the train leaving Charing X at 17:10 some 4+ hours earlier. That’s a long wait.

If you page back to SE tweets on 2 March - they make their first report of ice forming on the on the third rail at 11:16 - some six hours before the departure of the 17:10.

The investigation will draw up an authoritative timeline - the RAIB will also look at the News Shopper report and probably enquire as to the accuracy of the SE statements made to council.

It has been said before - let the investigation be made and report be written.


#97

Whatever the report says its a little disappointing our labour councillors seem to have prematurely fallen on the side of big business rather than the stranded commuter without hesitation.


#98

It’s not as simple as “big business” vs commuter.

By most accounts it looks like “selfish commuter” vs “trapped commuter”

The train company tried to restore power five times in order that trains could move - on all occasions, passengers trespassing on the tracks meant the power could not be restored.


#99

As I said in my earlier post, I went back to look at SE tweets on 2 March.

I had recall of seeing this one embedded in Robin Clarke’s blog.

I cannot see it now on the SE history.

Am i mistaken - have I gone word blind - or is SE selectively altering what the published record should show.


#100

It’s a matter of interest what they post on Twitter, and what they delete. But deleting tweets is not the same as falsifying official records.


#101

Did not use those words and it is worth repeating I could be mistaken.


#102

The comments from that councillor do present as being that simple and my concern is that its something for a newspaper or forum to prejudge the output of a report but our elected representatives should not be.

With regard to the wider issues I personally think its important not to judge either side too harshly or too early in this relatively extreme situation. Doing so risks unintended consequences such as no trains on snow days.

Without having been on that train I cannot say I wouldn’t have done the same thing, and we cannot realistically judge the health and safety risk from the comfort of our keyboards. Maybe conditions were so bad on the train they were indeed better off evacuating, only people on the train could make that judgement. Maybe they weren’t, either way it clearly felt that way to people.

Equally I can’t say the rail companies did a bad job or shouldn’t have run trains. Would it have been better to abandon these people at London bridge? Should the trains have not run at all that day? Of course not, we can’t stop everything just because of some snow as people still need to get to work and if we cancel things because there might be an issue people will be forced to take a bigger risk by driving into work.

As with every incident there are lessons to be learnt but I’ll struggle to accept the blame being put onto passengers (customers would be a better word). Whatever actions they decided to take (right or wrong) were a consequence of the conditions they were in and the communications they were given. Given you can’t lock people into carriages the only way we’ll avoid the repeat of this is to address those two issues.