Nuisance Neighbour on Devonshire Road

Hi all, just wanted to see peoples opinion on how to deal with an extremely annoying neighbour here on Devonshire Road.

He lives just opposite Benson Road and it looks like he seems to be running a car washing business from his front drive way / roadside, but for some reason decides to blast music out whilst cleaning the cars, at levels that literally shake the windows in our house… There are also big breaches of social distancing measures as he is meeting multiple people every day, shaking their hands and interacting with them for long periods. Today multiple cars turned up and were blasting extremely loud music, doing burnouts in the street (black tyre marks are still there to be seen) and revving their cars at levels comparable to a jet engine. All this went on for about 4/5 hours.

Multiple neighbours have gone up to him to ask for the music to be turned down only for it to go back up again minutes later. I have reported this individual to the police before for the noise level and we saw a van of around 5 officers come and speak to him a couple of days ago, but as soon as they left he turned on the extremely loud music again. This is not a one off event but a continuation of long running anti social behaviour.

He needs to be dealt with, not only because he is a nuisance to the whole neighbourhood but because now he is a danger to the health of others. Is there anything that can be done…

This sounds horrible. I suppose if neighbours continue to call the police, eventually something may happen. It must be a matter of being persistent. Easy for me to say sitting here; harder for you and your long suffering neighbours. Not sure what else you can do - but do please keep us updated on how this goes. Low life behaviour is on the rise and it could effect any of us so it would be good to know what works and what doesn’t.

You need to contact cer@lewisham.co.uk (environmental enforcement) and report him. Then they will normally ask you to keep track of time’s and record if possible.

Tried this, emailed them about it 3 weeks ago and they said they would get back to me in 2 days… Nothing yet

Try making phone calls. A person’s voice and direct questions (when?) is a lot harder to ignore than an email.

persevere !

If he is breaching social distancing on a regular basis daily I would report to the police, I suspect you won’t get much from the council at present. I think there is an online form you can complete for the police - maybe ask your neighbours to as well to add weight - they may prioritise based on number of reports.

I would contact the council to be clear and keep a log as mentioned above and ask your neighbours (respecting safe distances also) to - if many of you complain and have logs of behaviour it would likely have more weight behind it, maybe try to contact your local councillor as well.

Good luck I really feel for you, people like this just have no respect for anyone.

Thanks for the advice all, will try ringing the council tomorrow. Actually got a pretty quiet day today!.

https://www.met.police.uk/tua/tell-us-about/c19/tell-us-about-possible-breach-coronavirus-measures/

Got a response from the council after following up with extra info and a video. Shame they dont really want a part of it even though the car noise is only part of the issue.

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Next stop: complaining to a specific councillor?

Yes, and keep on at the police too. This may not seem like a great big deal in the scheme of things, but I think it totally is. It’s the ‘broken window’ theory. If louts do this sort of thing, drive at whatever speed they want when they want, smoke and deal drugs in the street, ride scooters on pavements, go wrong way up one way streets, jump over barriers at train station in full view of passengers and staff etc, etc, etc, and nothing happens to them, it starts to erode our way of life and normalises a culture of transgression.

Any in particular you would recommend?

And yes going to keep up with this. He seems to now be running his business later in the evenings / night…

Found his “business” page online which clearly shows him working all around London at this time but don’t want to “expose” him here yet

sorry, no idea. Out of interest - is the set-up new? Because there you really have 2 unrelated complaints which should be dealt with by different avenues - (A) the appropriateness of the business during the lockdown and (B) the appropriateness of the business being run at residential premises. I feel that (B) is stronger because rules for these issues have been around ages and are more established.

Just got this tweet so you are quite right, keep onto the police.

Yes it would be nice to see them doing something about villains like this this lot as opposed to making life hard for law abiding tax payers who sit down for a while in the park on their own or in a family group. I suspect the latter group represents the low hanging fruit.

I’ve actually seen this guy on my evening walks - at the beginning I just though he was a guy washing his car until he seemed to be washing it every single time I went past and then I started wondering if it was some kind of business. Seems there are three issues with three different routes of escalation - you rightly outline 2 but it’s probably still worth pursuing on noise. So the council for the noise nuisance and change of premises and the police for the social distancing breaches. And actually if he employs anyone in addition to himself, HSE is responsible for enforcing social distancing in the workplace.

Oh Is this on the junction of benson and Devonshire road? I walked past these 3 guys yesterday. They were blocking the pavement with the car and equipment so I had to walk in the road.

Yes it is - it’s quite annoying to have to walk around them.

Yes I have seen this too. I think the coronavirus lockdown limits getting anything done, along with the Council being expected to do too much on ever decreasing budgets. Guidance is given on a government website:

The government just gave councils a £1.6bn bonus on top of their existing funding. I think we should expect them to provide existing services with funding taken into account. I suspect the problem is more with staffing and logistics.

@anonSE23 I’ve just seen on Next Door that a few days ago PC Gillian Pearce who is one of the dedicated ward officers for Perry Vale ward posted that the manager of the car wash on Waldram Park Road had been issued with a fine for continuing to work during the lockdown period and that he was told to close up and go home. If you haven’t already done so I would suggest logging all the details relating to your nuisance neighbour on the met.police.uk website so the details can be passed to the Forest Hill ward team to investigate…

£1.6bn is a nationwide figure. This averages to about £4m per council. Lewisham faces £40m budget cuts. So in other words the “bonus” merely reduces the cut by 10% or, turning that round, still leaves 90% of the cuts.

Bit of an update, heard absolutely nothing from either council or police even though mentioned to met.police.uk at lease twice. They said it was being passed along to Forest Hill ward team to investigate but not hear from them either.

He continues to operate the car wash and it seems to now be a hot spot for “car enthusiasts” to congregate, as people have said they block the road doing filming and photography and obviously breaching social distancing rules.

Not really sure what route to go down now. Had a word with some neighbours who are rightly fed up as well and all have confronted him only to be ignored.

In this case I don’t think it’s got anything to do with the virus. It’s more likely that the opposite is the case, that Environmental Health Officers have no restaurants to inspect so they might be freed up for other work like noise enforcement.

Try one, wait 7 days then try another.

Yup thats the same guy, I honestly think he believes that is his equivalent of clapping…

Looks like the cops paid him a visit today though as a few of his mates turned up and they were all just hanging out on the street. Music still persists though, but in much shorter bursts.

Hi all,

I’ve written to officers about this - will let you know when get a reply (this may take a little longer than usual as many officers have been re-asssigned to ensure the continuity of ensure services and hope vulnerable residents during the pandemic).

Thanks,
Sophie

Amazing, thank you very much Sophie. I wonder if its just a coincidence but had a very quiet weekend for once, which was very welcome!

lets hope it continues

I live very close to this nuisance. This has been going on for at least 4 years. I raised this with the council several times and had no response. I finally threatened action against the council by going to an ombudsman and they finally called me (however I was on the way to the airport and never returned their call). Expect Lewisham council to do absolutely nothing! As they have done nothing all these years with regards to this particular person. I also reported him to the environmental agency and they did send me a form to keep a diary but honestly the noise from his property is everyday!! Why can’t the council just evict him by now he is an absolute nuisance! I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night from the sound of his car leaving the property! My house also shakes from his music and I’ve just about had enough of it! Let me know if you get anywhere!

That’s a very depressing picture. I get the sense that this sort of behaviour is becoming normalised in these parts, and once that happens, it will be you who will get evicted for trying to impinge upon his human right to do what he wants when he wants to do it

Well he seemed to disappear for a couple of weeks but he is back now and back to his old tricks. Flat is currently shaking with the bass from his car stereo…

I have had zero response from police, zero response from noise complaints submitted and the only action that seemed to take place was from Sophie above. The area is full of young families and people working from home that surely also are being disturbed by this individual, but surely they have submitted complaints as well so I am completely out of ideas

Have you tried reporting on Fix My Street? Such a public posting might shame the Council into doing something?

Resorted to reporting him to 101 at the weekend as my eardrums were actually starting to hurt (no exaggeration). Was told “you’re not the first person to report him today”. Police were going to send someone out and then Sod’s law, after 5 hours of our house literally shaking from his music, he stopped so they probably didn’t catch him in the act.

With this hot heat we need to keep our windows open and it means we just cannot hear a single thing other than him. Our enjoyment of our home is gone. I’m at work now but have heard that he is very much playing the same excruciating level of bass today. It’s not even the music level, apparently the music isn’t too loud when up close it is the bass making our walls shake.

It’s just so selfish! I feel really sorry for you and hope it gets sorted out.

Thank you.

My advice to anyone who is disturbed by him is to report him to 101. When I’ve called them before they wouldn’t do anything as it was a domestic disturbance. The weekend was the first time they acted and most likely because of other complaints. The more complaints to them the more seriously they will take our grievance. Lewisham council are completely useless with this matter.

Can you check the address to see if it’s registered at companies house, if not HMRC may be interested if he’s taking in cash. If there’s any kind of tax evasion going on you’d be surprised how quickly they sort out revenue issues.

9 posts were split to a new topic: Post moved from ‘Nuisance Neighbour’

That is grievous

Personally I’d mind my own business, and to be honest let’s face it by the sounds of it your currently fighting a loosing battle with the young gentleman in question.

But what you’d need to think about is your doing all of this behind his back…I wonder if he knows that there is a whole forum thread about him. Let’s look at the facts nothings been done about it so clearly that must mean there is bigger things going on in this current climate for the police & council to be dealing with than petting after you because your windows are shaking from time to time…

And the funnier fact of all this your posting all this from a anonymous account…
Must not have the audacity to confront him with your nonsense…

apparently not

Yes, but does that mean we should ignore other things? It can also be true that what is a big thing for one person is of no consequence for someone else. Someone may feel violated by a neighbour’s music shaking their house, whereas you or I may not mind or may enjoy it if we like the music.

Yep, definitely nothing more ‘nonsense‘ than trying to work from home with windows shaking from a neighbour kindly sharing their excessively loud music. Really helps the concentration.

Hi @BigRarsclart, welcome to the forum. You seem somewhat familiar with this situation, so perhaps you could ask the gentleman in question to represent himself here (under whatever anonymous pseudonym he likes) so he can get to know his neighbours and perhaps help build a more amicable relationship with them.

I don’t think anyone holds anything against him personally, they’re just concerned about some behaviours that would be pretty easy for him to stop if only he realised the serious problems it is causing to those around him.

“Serious Problems” nothing’s more serious than COVID-19 at this moment in time though.

Just a thought…

Imagine if society could only solve one problem at a time.

And it’s not that I’m familiar with the such situation in question, but I see the post pop up thought I’d have a look and share my opinion like others have in here.
Personally I’d of tried to be a good standing neighbour and tried to resolve this like grownups. Rather than acting like big baby’s in a forum

Is there a link to this video, I’m rather intrigued to see what exactly is it your being subjected to.

Well by the looks of it, this is another addition to the list of irrelevant problems that’ll probably never get dealt with

I will come and introduce myself tomorrow if you want? Like the 3 other neighbours that spoke to you today (if anyone is confused Steppa is the individual in question) Every time today that someone came and asked you turn down the music you turned it back up again 5 minutes later.

Who’d have guessed…

This is actually hilarious, trying to pretend you aren’t signed up with the same name that you have literally written on the side of your car…

You realise the people that came up today and have come up previously are trying to solve this like adults, and you are the one acting like a big baby and saying its your “right” to play music that loud. I think you need to show a little respect to the people around you.

Steppa is this individual in question…
How can you confirm this please?

No!..what’s hilarious is it that YOU think the person your talking to here is the person in question…

I’m familiar with the act of digging an ever larger hole for myself… it never ends well!
(friendly advice)

Your right…
It never does.

Feel a bit strange posting an update knowing that the individual in question is reading this post however I had a couple of call backs from the met today including the forest hill safer neighbourhood team. Due to the number of complaints they have recently received they will be pursuing action against the individual, dont want to post specifics here though

don’t worry, he denied it was him. Glad you got a response from the Met. I hope this is as simple as the business owner being spoken to, simply turning down the music and getting on with running his business.

I think everyone is just trying to be supportive, and find comfort within their local community.
This forum certainly isn’t belittling any of the problems the world is facing at present. Quite the opposite, I feel.
In a time when its so important to be good, kind humans and neighbors, when we are all locked down in tiny London flats together, trying to keep business’ and jobs afloat by working from home, whilst caring for our loved ones, something as distressing and intimidating as noise that shakes our homes and effects our health on a daily basis can be ten times more damaging and depressing than normal.
Personally, I am reassured, and feel a little better after finding and reading this forum, to know that I am not alone, and to know that my neighbors are there also, trying to bring a little peace to the neighborhood in these sad, crazy times.
The message thats being said in the forum is being said to him too. Any anonymity people have, certainly for myself, is because the situation is intimidating and upsetting, and perhaps people dont feel brave enough to reveal any further details.

This post was flagged and is temporarily hidden.

Welcome to the forum - great first post, thanks.

To be fair the business seems to have moved elsewhere, no longer washing other peoples cars in the middle of the road, just playing his music whilst pretending to wash his own car for 4 hours straight. Thats the main issue right now.

Nobody wants to shut down your business here, they are just asking for the stereo to be turned down as it’s disrupting their own ‘working from home’ and it’s intrusive - it clearly affects quite a few people. One would assume it’s possible to wash a car without sound.

I wouldn’t worry about tax evasion, they’re too busy going after Amazon and Google.

What’s wrong with using headphones? Can then play music as loud as he wants and disrupts no one.

Funny you say that, he is constantly wearing his airpods just doesnt seem to actually use them for anything other than a fashion accessory…

Probably just in there to take calls…

To add to this - it’s not just affecting people working from home. I work very long hours and have gone into work throughout lockdown as a key worker. So when I do get home late in the evenings and at weekends I would like to be able to enjoy my home (in peace). The small time I am currently having at home is being ruined by this individual.

Now then !

Probably covered elsewhere in the thread, but if this is a persistent problem then looks straightforward. This from Gov.UK:

Councils must look into complaints about noise that could be a ‘statutory nuisance’ (covered by the Environmental Protection Act 1990).

For the noise to count as a statutory nuisance it must do one of the following:

• unreasonably and substantially interfere with the use or enjoyment of a home or other premises

• injure health or be likely to injure health

So the former, definitely.

This is all no doubt true. It probably is unlawful and the council probably have a statutory duty to act. However, that does not mean that the authorities are really all that bothered. Consider all of the low level law breaking that we see every day and write about here week in week out. Pavement cycling/scootering; vandalism at One Tree Hill; appalling intimidatory driving/motorcycling;drug dealing right there out in the open ( (certainly round my way). I post below a picture of what has recently happened to the front of Saka Maka my lovely local indian restaurant. The owners are delightful and try and run a nice business- or they used to. They do not deserve their premises to be treated in such a way. In my view the reason all this happens and continues to happen is because there is a rising culture of transgression and there is a high level of tolerance both by those whose duty it is to act and by those of us who shrug it off but ought to know better

IMG_09453264×2448 2.35 MB

I hear all of that, but the big difference with this is that when you’re in your own home, pinned by continual excessive noise, it’s insidious. You’re trapped. No escape from it. It’s utterly selfish, thoughtless, and deserves to be stopped. We all live cheek by jowl and it’s unfair and disrespectful to treat your fellow neighbours in this way. He needs to stop dominating people’s lives, turn his choice of music down and start being a fully grown responsible adult.

I asked him to turn it down, and he said it’s the lowest it goes. I said can you please disconnect the bass as it is rumbling my house. He just said no!
I thought I was starting to lose my mind and thought I was the only one until I just found this thread.

Hey [anon], you are definitely not the only one and actually you were the third person yesterday to go speak to him! Really grateful that you have actually confronted him face to face, would’ve hoped he would see the impact it is having on so many different people but seems he is just as rude in person as I expected.

I once lived in the ground floor flat with two inconsiderate neighbours above me in two separate flats. I recall that the fashion was for taking up carpets and having bare floor boards so all noises were magnified. The couple who lived above had one of these mega cinema effect TV’s with separate bass woofer things. Their view was that they had spend a lot of money on it so they had the right to enjoy it. I know what it is like. I can remember it almost drove me mad.

Yes I studied law and remembered statutory nuisance which is why I told the council this was ruining enjoyment of my home. If it really came down to it we could make a civil court case against this person. But obviously that’s extreme measures and I don’t want it to come down to that. However it isn’t completely unknown for these types of cases to end up in court.

This particular property is also owned by the council as far as I know so the council have an even bigger duty to act in respect of their tenants.

For anybody not versed in legal matters I’ve posted a link below if you wish to read it.

I have also collected lots of evidence on this matter over the years so if push does come to shove…

…However I would like to think we can be kind, considerate neighbours!!

https://www.richardbuxton.co.uk/the-law/nuisance

Lewisham Council really need to take action, in that case. To think that you’re all subsidising this person’s rent (while having to pay your own, fully) makes it all the more galling.

I’ve put a tweet out from the SE23life account, with the council mentioned.

If he is a Council tenant, I think he will be in breach of his tenancy agreement whether or not he is committing private nuisance.

It is for the Council to take action.

If you get no joy from the police or the council then consider making a formal complaint to each of them. Experience has shown that large organisations must take complaints seriously because they are obliged to investigate them and this takes time and resources which they do not like. I hope things are improving for the O.P. but if not, then this is a route you may want to consider taking.

We need to find a way of making this happen in Lewisham. They say they can’t do their job because of cuts, but as you say this is a statutory responsibility.

I understand that the Council has used up all its reserves!

Other Councils in London, including Labour Councils, have run noise enforcement services despite suffering the same drastic cuts as lewisham.

7 posts were split to a new topic: Music on Ebsworth / Bovill Road

Quick update on the actual topic that this post was trying to address. The council sent an abatement letter to the address, police were notified and I was asked to take a “disturbance diary”. Seems to have worked as the individual in question has kept 99% quiet for the last couple of weeks (apart from the odd bit of noise as he comes and goes).

So if you are reading this, then Thank You! Personally it has helped a lot with working from home and I managed to get two more job interviews done in the period mentioned which have resulted in me landing a new role. Please keep it up

Congrats on getting a new role!

Woo hoo !!

Lockdown again and at home all day and night. The nuissance neighbour continues to come and go several times a day and my house windows are shaking ! I am no buzz kill but when having to do zoom calls and also putting baby to sleep and he comes back with exhaust popping and banging and windows wobbling it is driving me mad, he has such a lack of respect for anyone but himself, the police are not doing anything and wanted to ask if anyone else is getting frustrated with this noise several times a day every day ?

Hi @J_C, I can’t help you with this, but looks like you might need to do as @anonSE23 did below, if talking to the person will not work:

I’ve also tagged in the people who appeared to live close from the thread in case they miss your update @Naomi @Lj @Local @anonymous as well as @SophieDavis who is very proactive in these matters and posted further up - in fairness I’m not sure it’s her ward and she has plenty of other issues - sorry Sophie!)

Good luck!

Yes I am!

Hear him every sodding evening. What is he doing out in his car in the rain every evening for an hour?!

@ModTeam please can you set up a DM between myself and @James_Cornwell?

Sure thing!

@oakr @J_C It is in my ward! I’ve written to officers asking them to intervene again.

As with everything at the moment, please bear with us - many of our officers are once again re-deployed to deal with COVID so response times are slower than usual.

Thanks Sophie. This person has been a pest for at least 5 years.

It would be great if there was a “10 strikes and you’re out rule”.

Definitely tempted to stick a banana up his exhaust pipe.
And no, that’s not a euphemism!

The ignorance, lack of respect and consideration this person has for their neighbours just beggars belief.

Hi @SophieDavis This is really getting out of hand now. 5 cars have just arrived, Sunday 17th January at 15:30 hrs, they all congrated (Needless to say without any social distancing) and then started racing in a group down the road. What would happen if a child ran into the street as they were going 50/60 MPH down the road ? The police would then say, we will review the last 5 years worth of complaints that were not actioned ? It is Sunday, I am with my family trying to relax and cannot hear myself think with the racket going on. I understand another person in this group tried complaining to both the council and police but with no success. What can I do to stop this noise ?

I just heard this group now as well. Unbelievable!!!

A potato would be better !!!

@J_C I’m sorry - it sounds incredible frustrating (and dangerous). I’ve referred it to both our officers and the Police. I’m hoping they’ll be able to act soon & will keep following up (I just know that on both sides, they’re stretched incredibly thin at the moment).

Bravo Sophie !