Continuing the discussion from Dartmouth Road Improvements:
Over on the Dartmouth Road thread, we shared some useful general information and suggestions on parking in Forest Hill - worthy of their own dedicated topic. I will move them here, preserving links to and from the Dartmouth Rd topic.
As is the Sainsbury’s car park.
Do you mean the Sainsbury’s car park, @Michael?
yes. two hours free and rarely completely full.
Wouldn’t a similar arrangement at the PV var park help the businesses along Perry Vale though? Thought this was something the Forest Hill Society was keen on.
If it stops idiots parking outside Finches then all for it.
As a permanent measure it makes sense, but I doubt it would make much difference to Dartmouth Road businesses as a temporary measure.
Personally I tend to park at the coop, if I’m passing by and want to purchase some fish from Waters. Coop is closer than the PV car park.
Yes sorry, should have made clear I was referring to a permanent measure. I see your point.
Indeed!
As you know, I’ve been banging on about this for years but the period of disruption was the Trojan Horse which could facilitate the initial temporary concession that we could, hopefully turn permanent.
My theory as to why Sainsburys car park is rarely full is because Forest Hill as a shopping town is running at well below its potential - both in terms of the quality of our offering and, as a result, footfall.
So why is it not at its full potential?
Because a lot of serious businesses don’t give us a second glance.
And why’s that?
BECAUSE THE PERCEPTION IS THAT WE’VE GOT NO POXY PARKING!!!
These business people don’t know about Sainsburys car park.
Many locals don’t even know about it!
Please trust me - I’ve dealt with many sound business people who’ve turned away from this town because of the perceived parking problem; and I can assure you that if they could have been persuaded that our ample parking resources at Sainsburys and Perry Vale are available and well promoted throughout the town we would have a more-varied and interesting offering than we do now.
1.5 minutes walk from the entrance at Perry Vale car park to W.H.Smiths.
The perry vale car park used to be chocker before it was chargeable but I think full of park and riders using FH station. Despite it being free for 30 mins it is now virtually empty all day - or at least it has been when I visit. I think people fear the ticket warden if they over stay (they are quite zealous) but it is pretty handy for most of the shops so I wonder what can be done to promote it. Longer free stays? Better notices?
It needs longer free stays to be useful for the town centre. Thirty minutes isn’t enough. They are very zealous at giving out tickets and if I wanted to, say, go the Post Office and do one other thing, I might easily go over 30 minutes. Definitely not long enough to stop for a coffee. So even though the Perry Vale car park is more convenient for me, I use the Sainsbury’s one instead.
I agree Foresthillnick.
I have offered to pay for posters, leaflets and stickers to go in all the shops so that everyone who walks anywhere or goes into any shop or the pools or library will be made aware that the town offers 2 HOURS FREE CAR PARKING within a short walk of the town centre.
Once people are told about this resource they will use it.
Then, when people are using it there will be more people spending time in the town.
Which will get the shops’ tills ringing.
And new businesses will come-a-knocking.
BUSY MAKES BUSY!
I see us with a very similar scenario to @RachaelDunlop, we might be tempted to pop in a shop/cafe on Dartmouth Road or Perry Vale when picking up a parcel but rarely do due to the time limit.
@Anotherjohn All totally true IMO but it is the council we would need to convince and I think this is just too strategic when they are so cash strapped. Perhaps a more accounting type argument would be conducive…
I wonder if anyone has a handle on how the parking wardens are allocated? It strikes me there must be a pretty much all day patrol in order to police a 30 minute limit zealously. If it was a 2 hour limit, you would only need perhaps 3 or 4 visits in the day. With a currently mostly empty car park, and provided you could more usefully station the warden elsewhere at other times (e.g. Dartmouth Road), this could be income/expenditure positive over a year.
If there was any sense in the world parking fines would be earmarked to pay for better car park signage in the town centre. I agree that signage for car parks is a problem for businesses and shoppers in Forest Hill.
It is easy to forget that you can park under Sainsbury’s and come out through their main entrance onto London Road. Very useful for a trip to the teapot or the library!
I am afraid I have given up on trying to help people park. I see many many people struggling to pay on Waldenshaw Road and many people parking in the CPZ. I have tried to tell people there is free parking in Sainsburys but get “it’s too far to go” even though they are going to Sainsbury’s. I gave up trying to tell people people parking in the CPZ that they would get fined the third time someone told me to f*ck off.
Some people cant be helped.
The Sainsbury’s car park is signposted, the signs are not very large and not very noticeable but they are there.
Yes Brett - this is why I made a very polite plea to Cllr. Maja Hilton on this very thread yesterday evening.
Unfortunately though, she’s chosen to ignore this minor matter in favour of a pie-in-the-sky 5-minute-wonder flippin’ ice poxy rink!
Reading through the last few threads there seems to be a general acknowledgement of the fact that too few people know about the 2hrs free parking at Sainsburys, which brings you out opposite The Capitol in seconds. My idea about punting this fact in every shopfront in FH will change this - and then when that car park’s full, Perry Vale will be needed.
PLEASE MAJA HILTON - WAKE UP TO THIS!
I expect to be at Council on Tuesday. I have taken it on board. Apologies for not acknowledging the request.
I always park in the Sainsbury’s car park now. The wardens are usually patrolling so you have to be careful, last time I was there someone got a ticket for being in a disabled parking bay (the sign was faint but still visible) and a few other cars had tickets.
I wish they would put some of the money into repairing the ticket machine though, the middle button 5 has been broken for months making it very difficult to input your registration number. The parking warden told me to input just the letters of my reg instead until I pointed out this was impossible as the 5 was also the button for the letters I needed too…
I think it would make sense for the Perry Vale car park to be the same as the Sainsbury’s one - 2 hours free.
30 mins doesn’t give you time to do anything. With 2 hours I could pop to WHSmith, Waters, beer shop
etc.
The parking at the Co-op is only 30mins and it’s often hard to find a space.
Thank you Maja - honestly, I really appreciate you taking this on board. Please feel free to contact me about this and I will give you any amount of time and effort as is necessary to make this work. I’m also prepared to put some money into it as well.
By the way, on the ice skating thing, I’ve been selling skates and ice hockey equipment at Streatham Ice Rink for 37 years so if you’d like to pick up on your old pastime again I will give you a pair of skates as a thank you.
You’re not allowed to bribe councillors 
(And I’m sure you didn’t mean it to be)
Oops!
It was only the skates. The mention of money was for advertising through leaflets and posters etc.
You’re skating on thin ice, there, @Anotherjohn.
Oh, look. Here come the Too Obvious Puns Police!
Thanks for the offer @Anotherjohn but I will respectfully decline it. Briberies do not need to be money and this if accepted would certainly be seen as such given the circumstances. It is good to have a local recommendation where I can purchase the skates though.
I’m sorry, I didn’t know about all this.
I think you’re partly right, but I also think that locals DO know about the car park, but have various reasons for not using it:
If you live inside the South Circular, you have to get on to that infernal road for the sole purpose of coming back off it into Waldenshaw Rd. That is no fun and takes time.
There is ONE route into the car park but THREE roads out. The approach is uninviting, and then you are faced with out-of-order machines.
Possibly Davids Road would be better changing the direction of its one-way traffic. Turning right into the South Circular from Davids Road is dangerous, and the left turn is very sharp - difficult to avoid crossing the centre of the South Circ into oncoming traffic. A left turn from South Circular into Davids Rd would be easy and safe. But to change the one-way direction there would need to be a new mandatory right turn into Pearcefield Ave for vehicles coming down off Manor Mount.
[This is off topic, but IMHO traffic is a major problem in Forest Hill. The Council has a very conservative ‘nothing we can do about it’ attitude, which is unacceptable. Other boroughs are canny in discouraging or diverting through traffic out elsewhere, but Lewisham seems happy to provide free roads for drive-thru commuters at the expense of residents.]
Operative word ‘many’.
But I’m being pedantic. You’ve got your beef, which I respect, and I’ve got mine.
I’d lived here ten years before I knew about the Sainsbury’s car park. And even when I became aware of it, I didn’t realise it was actually a council car park for general use.
Now I know where it is and how to get to it, I honestly don’t find it particularly onerous. It’s not like driving in London in general is free of odd diversions and slow traffic.
Even though exiting via David’s Road would usually be quicker for me, I don’t do it. You need to get all the way over to the right to swing a mid-sized family car into the left hand turn without crossing the carriageway. So I just go back via Waldenshaw. Again, it adds a bit of time, I might sit for a minute in traffic somewhere near the Capitol but again, I don’t find that too high a price to pay for two hours of free parking.
I tend to use the car park on weekday lunchtimes and it is usually at least half full. Does that count as underusage for that time of day? More concerning is that I can usually park there quite easily on a Saturday as well.
There are two parking-related perception issues for businesses and potential businesses in the area. The first is the perception that we’ve got no parking, as discussed above. The second is how much trade actually comes from car traffic. A study in Bristol found that retailers on a local high street overestimated the proportion of shoppers arriving by car at 41% compared to the real 22%. I’d be interested to hear from our local retailers what theirs views are in this respect. I would guess it varies considerably depending on what’s being sold (e.g. sweets vs furniture).
As well as that, there is a large body of research showing that people arriving by foot and by bike spend significantly more than people arriving by car (one TfL report showing 65% greater spend for walkers vs drivers).
Although the Dartmouth Road improvements aren’t particularly revolutionary, I think they will improve the image of the street and, because of the removal or problem parking (I hope), perceptions of safety. Both of these factors should boost footfall to the benefit of businesses.
That’s a really interesting and helpful analysis brencud. Thank you.
You have exploded part of my myth - but I wonder how may of these ‘potential’ businesses would be aware of this data?
Many of you will know that I’m unsophisticated and old-fashioned in the way I perceive things so it’s usually just black and white to me.
I do know - and this is illustrated by RachaelDunlop’s post -
that I am right about even relatively local people not being aware of the 2hrs free parking in the town centre and I’m sure that greater awareness would help and improve both the levels of footfall and, very importantly, the length of time that people will spend doing their bit’s and pieces at a more leisurely pace.
I also believe that if it were advertised at the Horniman Farmers Market it would bring some of their punters (who might otherwise park around the park) into the town centre, whereas many local traders used to moan because it took business and footfall away on market days.
Bad drivers like me hate the Sainsbury’s car park, particularly the under cover bit. Very tight manoeuvring is required and I’m always afraid I’m going to hit something.
Aha, robin.orton, so would YOU use the Perry Vale car park if it offered 2 hours free parking?
I’m no expert on town centre economics, but I would guess that the nice new restaurants/cafés etc we have and the small independent shops are not particularly dependent on drivers. Worth remembering that (for example) 45% of households in Forest Hill ward have no car - that was 2011 census and it was an increase from 40% in 2001 so it may be even higher now. Some of those will be deprived households, but many will be young professionals who get public transport to work, have high disposable income and simply don’t feel the need to own one.
As to footfall - I think we have a pretty good offering now given the relatively low number of A1-A5 units compared with other local centres (Sydenham, Catford, ED etc). I think it is right that the focus should be on improving the town centre environment to make it appealing to potential visitors, but any attempt to really push up footfall is always going to come up against the constraint that we are a small centre.
Just by way of observation. Waldenshaw Road, which you have to drive down to get to Sainsburys, is car free during the day Mon through Fri. Packed on the weekends and most nights.
Sure. But the most obvious fact about cars is that they occupy a lot of space for not that many people, so you can have neighbouring streets full of vehicles which don’t necessarily contribute a huge % of footfall. But like I said, no expert. (Have there been surveys done?)
I have suggested before that by reducing the parking charges in the PV car park it would be more utilised the result being less is more. Today I picked up a parcel from the mail depot at 11:52. Quick count 71 parking spaces empty, so if perhaps there were some 30 minute users and parcel collectors that at least 75 empty spaces from which the council receives no revenue. Conversely Dacres Rd and others were full and all available space on Perry Vale was taken.
Simple maths £3.00/day from 75 cars is better than £5.00 from 26 simplest?
But we don’t want to encourage too much more all-day commuting parking. When the car park was entirely free, it was full by 7:30 and entirely unavailable for local parking.
Make it a 4 hour max parking.
4 hours is not quite enough for me if I go into town, have lunch with a friend, do some shopping, come back. 5 hours would work.
When you say town, do you mean Fh or London?
Unless absolutely necessary why not use public transport?
I can’t get to the station except by car, for medical reasons.
‘Town’ always means London.
So no complaints the about people Street parking in roads adjacent to the station and the town then?
Turn the whole area into a CPZ which increases council revenues as well as commuters forced to use the car park and pay (yet more money) Yah! reduction in council tax as money pours into council coffers 
In that case and because of your need for the car I agree. If it was free from 10am to 4pm that would put off most commuters from doing a free “park and ride” and blocking up the space for shop users.
The CPZ we were in was approved by the locals ten or so years ago, not so much the more recent one near Dartmouth Road.
Brendan I would probably say from my point of view as a trader the majority of my customers come on foot, however on a weekly basis I have people say they wanted to pop in on other occasions after being to another (if they had more than 30 mins parking outside) or if they found a parking space in the first place. I point them in the way of Sainsbury’s car park with 2 hours free & most don’t know about it.
My thoughts are that if more were aware of this it would get more people browsing & hence using more independent shops/cafes etc if they were aware of the 2 hours free parking.
This is my personal opinion & not as FHTA 
I just noticed there is a big car parking sign on the side of Sainsburys but only visible traveling north. There is another one at the junction of Waldenshaw but covered in moss.
Probably why most miss it John
Good point! And no easy way of correcting your mistake if you miss it (which I’ve done a few times on those occasions when I’ve forgotten I need to go to Sainsbugs on the way home).
Or, for that, matter, there’s no way of even knowing that you’ve missed it!
It’s only been there for 14? years 
Ahem. Yes, but I was meaning anyone new coming through FOH from Dullitch direction - if they don’t know about the left turn for Sainsbury’s parking, they wouldn’t know that it’s there.
There is one on the left, just opposite the bus stop,
??? One what?
Parking sign for Sainsburys if you are coming from Dulwich.
My mistake. I thought when you said…
that there was no visible sign when travelling south!
That quite OK. I had not noticed the very large one high up on Sainsbury’s until yesterday.
I’m sorry to keep banging on but I’ve got an idea (apart from my leaflets and window sticker in every shop and business premises plus the leisure centre and library).
What about if all businesses etc put a map and blurb on their website to tell their prospective clients about our wonderful 2 hours free parking at Sainsbury’s (and Perry Vale (please)).
The signage for the Sainsburys’ car park is rediculous. And, even if you know that there is a car park located behind Sainsburys, it is difficult to find.
I haven’t noticed any new signs and use Google streetview to demonstrate my point, but the images are from 2016, so please photograph new signs that have been put up since.
Entering FH from the Horniman, you need to turn left here (see photo below), but there is no indication of the presence of a car park at the requisite left turn, and there has not even been signage for the car park beforehand.
If you are going out of Forest Hill (and probably not looking for a car park) then there is a very small sign, see below.
However, if you are luck enough to turn into Waldenshaw Road, at the end you will see a further sign when you reach the T-junction at its end, below, middle of image.
You correctly identify the right hand turn and proceed down Manor Mount until you get to the point shown in the below image where you need to turn right, but there is no sign. Carrying straight on leads you down a one-way road back to the S Circular.
There IS a sign to tell you to turn into Priestfield Road. It is on the left just before where you captured that last image. My issue with most of these signs is that they are too small.
Completely agree!
I think it would be good to have a separate thread for FH parking issues as there are some good ideas and observations here that could contribute to a push for change, should anyone be up for starting a campaign!
2 Hours free parking at Perry Vale has been requested, together with better signage.
Thanks Maja
Thank you Maja - I really appreciate it.
I’m with you RachelDunlop
In my view the better signage is actually more important than the 2 hour free parking in Perry Vale (although it would be welcome).
With on-going roadworks, decent signage to the two car parks would help prevent clogging of local roads with parked cars and people looking for parking. Hopefully any signage would be permanent.
This is an example of what we need as cars come into Forest Hill from Lordship Lane, Waldram Park, Perry Vale, and Dartmouth Road:
Yes, making people aware is key.
Better signage, together with other measures (such as those I’ve previously suggested) will help businesses here.
After a period of pointing people towards Sainsbury’s car park I believe it will used more, hence, Perry Vale car park will be needed to take the overflow. Plus it will provide an option for people coming in from the other side of the tracks.
This may be too much to hope for… but I’ve seen communities that provide signage with real time notice of # of spaces available from multiple parking sites in the location. That would be cool.
Yup too much to hope for I think. There would need to be entry and exit gates to do this.
In case (like me) you never knew this option existed:
Pearcefield Avenue car park, which offers 2 hours’ free parking
DO NOT forget to get a ticket even if it is free. It gets very expensive otherwise.
If there are no spaces in the Sainsbury’s car park next time I go, I’m blaming @anon5422159!
I think the clogging of local roads with people parking and looking for parking will do more than signage or 2 hours free parking to get people to use the local car parks. People will try to park off Dartmouth road, find themselves stuck trying to negotiate their way up and then find they spend 5 minutes looking for a space that is over 5 minutes walk away from Dartmouth Road. It will become quicker and a more pleasant experience to park at Sainsburys or PV and walk.
I occasionally go to Beckenham where the parking sign shown is and I’d say the reason people use the car parks there is no free on-street parking. I think it probably works better for the shops and the local residents as shoppers make the decision to go into town for the shops and a coffee and residents can park on their own streets. I don’t think the Spa as a swimming pool suffers from people having to pay to park there.
There is a lot of parking around Dartmouth Road which residents and shoppers can’t park on because it is taken up by commuters, traders in their silver mercs (okay only one ) and loads of white vans. Should we not be looking at some solution that gets rid of these people as well as well as using our car parks more efficiently?
OOPS, the quote didn’t work. I wanted to highlight a suggestion for 10am-4pm free.
I’m sorry, but I honestly think that anything longer than a 2hr free duration would be counter-productive for the businesses of Forest Hill - i.e the ones who I had targeted to benefit from this idea.
Agreed 2 hours would be ideal any longer would mean more Shopping! I would even agree to 50p charge to sweeten the deal, in fact spend more than a tenner and get your 50p refunded
Nice idea but that sort of thing works better at somewhere like the Sainsbury’s car park rather than the one on Perry Vale. Sainsbury’s could refund the 50p as you suggest. That’s what they do in Eltham (don’t ask - I’m still in therapy). But the Sainsbury’s car park already gives you two hours free parking, I believe.
If you park in the Perry Vale car park, which of the Forest Hill shops is going to give you the refund?
If traders are engaged then any of them, how about a window sign saying we give your 50p back if you spend a tenner. After all this post has been about drawing customers to town. Perry Vale car park would attract footfall to Dartmouth Road as no need to negotiate umpteen crossings just turn left.
I’m just about to email the FHTA exec to arrange a quick meeting before we arrange our next FHTA meeting to go over our agenda etc, so I’ll add this to it
ETA Not a bad idea at all @Wynell 
I like your positivity and enthusiasm Wynell.
Your idea is good one but I think it might just be a little difficult to execute. The problem being that the ticket machine would need to give a 2-part ticket, one part being the 50p redeemable voucher.
I’m 100% with you in spirit though.
This might be possible by showing receipts from independent shops/cafes/pubs etc though the logistics would be much harder to work out.& probably a lot of paperwork for all of us. But never say never Mr, sure we can look into it & see if it’s a possibility
ETA @Anotherjohn shall I forward your the email I sent & add you to join us to talk to us about your ideas on parking & also because you have offered to pay towards publicity for this xx
Showing them to who? None of our car parks are staffed. @Anotherjohn is right: the local authority car park beside Sainsbury’s in Eltham (ugh) does it that way: a two-part ticket. Sainsbury’s is a big enough retailer it can easily take the hit given that so many of the parked cars are for Sainsbury’s. For the Perry Vale car park, the retailers/restaurants nearest to the car park will bear the ‘hit’ of refunding the parking charges.
Easiest thing to do, I suspect, is to reprogramme the machines for 2 hours free parking.
I would have thought they would share the ‘hit’. Obviously one retailer has to process it, but they could settle up perodicially.
I did suggest that the refund would come after a tenner spend or a fiver but no sale no refund simple really. In Croydon and Kuala Lumpur they sell scratch cards at local shops that you scratch off the date and the time arrived and get parking. So local shops sell the cards getting people in the door. A small margin could go to shopkeeper the rest to LC if the cards cost a few pounds and gave you say 10 x 2 hour parking slots.
Just to add free parking is not going to excite the council so in addition we include the Sainsburys car park and on the cards we print directions to each car park. I am but a mere simple soul surely with the brains out there we can come up with some good ideas. I do think we need to prompt the council in some way and money/revenue works best. There is still the facility for long term parking as the machines would stay and Sunday/Bank holidays and after 6:30 will remain.
In fact rather than a poster campaign to ‘sell’ the car parks give away a parking ticket so you can park and then go and buy you parking scratch cards. I would be happy to volunteer in the town to promote/distribute the first ticket and word of mouth and this forum would do the rest. That’s it sorted!
I’m sure your ideas and efforts will be instrumental in making this thing work - so I am very grateful.
Thank you
Brilliant, being Perry Vale side of the centre we usually go down to Bell Green if we need to do a supermarket shop as it’s more of a faff getting to the Sainsbury car park in FH. We’d be much more likely to got to central FH and visit the other shops there if the PV car park was free for two hours.
Just a quick note 100,000 scratch cards would cost between 4 -6p each so even at 20p a ticket that’s 14p profit sell all the cards and that’s £14,000.00
That’s equivalent to 2800 cars parking at £5 a time or approx 12 cars a day which is about the average currently (Mon-Sat). My figures are rough but the idea is supercalafragalisticexpealadociuos
Or 10,000 car parkings of up to 3 hours, since the charge for up to 3 hours is £1.40
(I make it 32 car parkings a day)
I am still waiting for 2 hours free, but it has been acknowledged as an idea.
Thank you
My thought was that ‘free’ might not be accepted hence the small cost you probably have access to exact numbers of parking. Look forward to hearing what happens.
But - you park in the Perry Vale car park. You then walk how far to a shop to buy a scratchcard? You then walk back to your car to put it in the windscreen. Or how else do you demonstrate to the traffic enforcement officer that parking has been paid for? You then walk to the shops…
How does this work elsewhere???
As proposed we handout one free card during implementation which gets scheme moving and then perhaps a 2 week amnesty to pick up the stragglers. Word of mouth and forums are wonderful things. Alternatively you pay £1.40 for 3 hours… but you probably only do that once.In Malaysia it works well and because the cost is reasonable no one minds buying a book of tickets.
2 hours free parking obviously is best but is it likely to get approved? Council budgets are stretched. Plus I thought popping in to buy tickets would encourage footfall if only small shops sold them.
That’s so sweet (scuse the pun) I think most Traders wouldn’t have a problem with being paypoints so to speak on this. But I would have to run it past all
The council website notes that the Perry Vale car park is still free for two hours. Is that the case?
It was the last time I popped down there a couple of weeks ago.
A great option when visiting Havelock Walk this weekend if Sainsburys car park’s busy.
And even for Horniman’s Xmas festivities.
I don’t think the council has any plans to change this and is using it as a reason not to increase the parking times on Dartmouth Road. I think the idea is that if you are driving to the swimming pool or any other shop that may take more than 30 minutes, you should park in Perry Vale or behind Sainsbury’s. It makes sense and if you were shopping in Bromley you would happily walk the 5 minutes to the shops from the car parks. Sadly making sense does not always fit with people’s driving and shopping patterns.
My personal opinion is that 30 minutes is too short for Dartmouth Road parking restrictions (40 minutes in Sydenham), but I have been unable to persuade anybody with the power to change these things.
I’ve just visited Sainsbury’s in Forest Hill, and note that both ticket machines are now covered over with a fabric covering, telling you to use the RingGo app or dial a particular number to pay for your parking. Of course, 2 hours is still free… oh except for the 20p admin charge for using the app. Am I being a bit unreasonable to feel mildly furious about this?
No, not at all unreasonable. Free parking is no longer free. I pop in most days after work, that’s now £40-£50 a year, I may now choose to shop elsewhere. It’s not a brilliant supermarket but it’s convenient. You now have to have a phone to park there. Ringgo describe it as a convenience charge. For who?
If you still have the free two hours then it shoud suffice to write a note with time and date of your parking and put it on the dashboard.
That car park is operated by Lewisham Council. Not Sainsburys.
Interestingly Ringo generally seem to put the blame for the 20p convenience charge on the car park operator.
From https://m.myringgo.co.uk/help/article/17
In some areas a convenience fee is charged when using the RingGo service. This is an additional charge which has been agreed between the Council or private parking operator and RingGo, usually at the time of service setup.
I must admit that I find it hard to imagine that Ringo itself doesn’t float the idea of the 20p charge as a sweetener when pitching their service.
Their app is quite good though… mild outrage seems about right, though there should be a law against advertising something as free on the gratis sense, but then charging.
Pearcefield Road Car Park is now out of bounds to people without Smart Phones. That includes a lot of elderly people.
If it is Lewisham adding this cost, maybe a FOI request to see where this revenue is going.
I went to Sainsbury’s again yesterday… and the covers were off the machines. Curiouser and curiouser…
