Plea from a driver

There are lots of posts on this site from cyclists - I want to highlight a driver’s perspective.

Yesterday I had to do a hospital run to Kings during the evening rush hour. Not something that I would have chosen to do but essential at the time.

As I drove round the South Circular, there was a cyclist who was dressed entirely in black who was weaving between the lanes of traffic. Only a tiny light on the back of his bike showed that he was there.

We all have to share the roads, so it makes sense that everyone can be seen and so be safe. Please cyclists - wear something light or fluorescent so you can be seen in the dark. Thank you!

Absolutely. I am a driver and very vulnerable aware. Many cyclists don’t help themselves and don’t get me started on escooter users.

It’s terrifying the amount of cyclists you see on London Road all dressed in dark clothes. A reflective jacket is very cheap and can be easily worn over a normal jacket.

These people are called idiots and exist on bicycles, scooters, roller skates and if they could weave in and out… cars. They also have a shorter life expectancy than the rest of us, so fear not.

& now we have the e scooters batteries catching fire on the tube! The sooner they are banned by TfL the better!

You are so right. The danger is anything that uses lithium based batteries. Rather more laptops self-ignite. Maybe we should ban phones on TfL too. Bliss!

I’ll not comment on cyclists hi-viz as I drive a battleship-grey car …

But presumably your car has lights, including one illuminating the number plates?

Yes of course lawful lights on grey car and black bike.

If he had any light at all, then by comparison with many others he sounds quite responsible

It’s amazing how many drivers fail to use these!

Lights are only part of the problem. Daylight is just as dangerous for pedestrians and other vulnerable road users. It’s not seeing. Cars over 3 years old are, at least, tested every year. But not the driver. I was horrified when I went for my last eye-test which prescribed stronger lenses for my long range vision.

Being at an age when one is becoming more forgetful I asked if I would still be legal if I drove without. The answer was ‘no problem’ That’s the problem. Plus my cockpit is equipped with all the latest gizmos for hands-free communication - an entertainment manual bigger than the car manual, warm and snug and protected from the elements.

It is difficult to maintain the level of alertness necessary for safe driving. Plus the training to drive is woeful. As a motorcyclist you are taught to not trust your mirrors, look over your shoulder before turning. How many drivers do that? Near zero.

It’s very different on the outside - you have no alternative but be alert, to track a path through the congestion whilst avoiding the pot holes and trying to out-think the drivers around you. This can be challenging. Yes there are poor riders but they are mostly a danger to themselves. Poor drivers, on the other hand … and aren’t we all sometimes?

When it comes to KSIs we really must try to avoid victim blaming.

Is it me getting old or do others need a translation of the above to make any sense of sentence ?

KSI = Killed & Seriously Injured. Sorry for the jargon, does it make sense now?

Perfectly, thank you. Even Google could not solve that one !!!

It’s a standard measure used in road safety statistics. You will find it in many Department of Transport and research papers. On the road the ratio is of the order of 1:10 (killed:seriously injured) and a reminder that consequences of collisions are much greater than the headline death figures.

As an example if you had two junctions: one with one death and another with 10 seriously injured incidents. Which would you prioritise for improvement?

Whereas in air travel it’s probably the opposite way round. Important when making comparisons between different modes of transport.

But you still managed to see him and to see exactly what he was doing and wearing…

I had a few refresher driving lessons before buying my car last year as I hadn’t driven for a while. My instructor thought it was amusing that my automatic reaction when moving out was to do a shoulder check rather than a mirror check. I’ve cycled for so many years that it’s an automatic reaction.

This is a weird time of year… it’s easy to get caught out by the shortening days. You start cycling and it’s daylight and then realise you’re caught in twilight. In the days before automatic headlights, it wasn’t unusual for drivers to forget to turn them on because their eyes acclimatised and they didn’t always realise how dark it had become. The same can happen on a bike… it’s not always just a cyclist with a death wish.

I wonder what happened here.

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If you really want I’ll upload a video just from this week where I had lights on and reflective clothing and still had a van cut across me and nearly ran me off the road.

So from a cyclists perspective I’d like to ask people to get off their phones while driving and look where they’re going.

Well done for spotting the cyclist though!

Probably stationary(stopped) on a “Smart” motorway with no hard shoulder.

Right. So despite it being covered in hi-viz with big flashy lights on it AND being parked in a lane with a big red X over the top of it, it STILL got hit. That’s exactly my point.

I wish more people did the shoulder check as well as looking in the mirrors. Would save a lot of road rage from people getting cut up.

I don’t think the cyclist would be weaving in and out of traffic unless, as is usually the case, south circular traffic is at a standstill at that time.

I’m all for lights though, especially now it’s darker, it’s good to have one on your helmet and a bright one on your seat post.

I hope police do more to stop and advise all vehicles that a full set of working lights are useful, if not legally required (though I believe they now are?)

I haven’t seen any research on this but I would not assume the more lights & hi-viz the better. There is sensory overload which is not what you want when keeping track of multiple objects.

Personally I find plain reflectors on shoes or pedals are great on badly lit roads. The motion from a distance when you can’t properly see the object instantly identifies as a cyclist and the rate an indicator of speed - which may indicate you will need to brake/manoeuvre more quickly than if it were a delivery scooter. Other stuff apart from the mandatory rear light may distract.

I seem to be recall hearing that if you can rig both a flashing and a a solid light, it helps observers with both initial view and then getting a better sense of distance. I used to keep the solid one on my bike and put a smaller flashing one on my helmet or attached to the back of my jacket.

I did invest in an entirely reflective jacket at one point which was insanely bright but felt a bit ‘boil in the bag’ so it was rarely the preferred option.

Bizarre that this has turned into a car vs bike/pedestrian issue yet again.

As with most issues this boils down to an individuals behaviour, there are bad drivers and bad cyclists. I ride a bike and drive a car, I’m sure I’ve been a pratt using both but when using either I try to minimise the risk to myself and others. Given that if I am involved in any sort of accident while using my bike I’m at a higher risk of serious injury, I do all I can to keep myself safe.

Once I was in a bus stationary at a bus stop when the driver announced that there would be a delay as someone had just run into the back of the bus!
They are big and red and with lots of lights inside and outside!

A bus crashed into the back of it. An ambulance was also damaged in the crash but thankfully only two people sustained minor injuries.

No, unless it was a self driving bus then it was the bus driver who crashed the bus into the police car despite it being fully kitted out in hi-viz and having lights on. Drivers are responsible for crashing into other vehicles. Cyclists do not get hit by cars they get hit by drivers. As was noted above there are crappy drivers and cyclists all around, wearing hi-viz is not a foolproof solution. You can cause a lot more damage with a car than a bicycle so be extra vigilant around vulnerable road users and pedestrians please.

More motorists suffer head injuries than cyclists, should we all wear helmets when we drive?

Yes, and also when we enter into yet another “friendly debate” between car drivers and cyclists on the internet again

Ok let’s not debate anything. Happy to leave it at ‘a cyclist overtook me while I was stuck in traffic and I saw him wearing dark clothing so I went on the internet to complain about it’.

For the record, it wasn’t a complaint - it was a plea for awareness. Hence the title.

I’m also a Mum and dread the parents or spouse/partner of those cyclists or e-scooter riders getting that knock on the door to tell them there has been an accident.

If wearing a fluorescent sash stops that happening, then I think it’s worth a post.

There is nothing wrong with your post. At night, cyclists should have lights / reflective gear - cyclists in dark clothing with no lights and / or reflective gear are harder to spot which nobody wants.

I couldn’t agree more.

I think @RedChilli 's point is that for drivers who are looking where they are going, a better illuminated cyclist will be more visible, earlier, which should mean more reaction time for a driver.

So are you suggesting cylists shouldn’t have lights and reflective gear? We all know drivers who don’t look where they are going / are distracted by phones etc can crash, but that’s not relevant to this topic.

It’s getting a bit tiresome now, I wish there was a moratorium on this subject. All sides seem to be triggered as if the OP was referring directly to them.

Before the cyclists come for me, I was knocked off my bike in broad daylight while in a cycle lane and while having the right of way. When challenged by other drivers who stopped to help me, he said he didn’t see me. I was a very careful cyclist; wore all my safety gear (including a reflective vest at night) and had lights on the front and back of my bike. Even now when I’m out running at night, my running top has reflective stripes on it. Given my experience, I am a very strong advocate for cyclist safety.

Not all cyclists take care to make themselves seen on the roads and behave responsibly. We can’t rely on drivers to have complete awareness of what is on the road with them. As cyclists it’s our responsibility to make ourselves seen. Drivers have to abide by safety rules so why shouldn’t cyclists? If you’re riding on the road, or indeed the footpath, dressed in all in black with a tiny light then you’re partially to blame for any incidents that happen. The OP noticed this particular cyclist and was concerned for their safety but what if the other drivers didn’t notice them and the traffic started moving again?

Equally there are bad drivers out there who think they own the roads or are easily distracted, running into the back of stationary cars waiting at traffic lights. Or can’t even see a cyclist in broad daylight.

I guess in your world you call plane crashes pilot crashes as well.

Can we please avoid divisive language like ‘in your world’ and stick to responding to the points made.

In terms of press guidelines, it is recommended that human actors are described… New guidelines for UK journalists on reporting road collisions suggest banning use of the word 'accident' - Press Gazette

They also want journalists to avoid mention of helmets, high-vis or any other protective equipment “except when demonstrably relevant” and call for human actors to always be mentioned in coverage of collisions – for example by saying a driver, not a car, hit a cyclist.

Would you fly less if the headlines said ‘pilot crash’ instead of plane crash?

Note that there is no requirement for cyclists to wear helmets or hi viz either in response to some of the other comments. Cars also have lights but no hi-viz and even when they do, it doesn’t prevent people driving into them, so why should cyclists be an exception. A helmet will help if you fall off your bike but not much if you get hit by a 2 tonne steel object moving at speed.

Note also the government is introducing changes to the highway code to prioritise pedestrians then cyclists then the drivers of 2 tonne steel objects New Highway Code gives priority to cyclists and pedestrians | Autocar

The original post in this topic was fair, moderate and well liked. There’s been some good points made, but as others have pointed out, it’s getting a bit tiresome and off-topic now, so let’s move on and do something more productive with our Sunday. Thanks.