Recycling in Lewisham

As a relatively new resident of Lewisham I feel that the borough’s recycling services are less then optimal. But I was still surprised to read that Lewisham’s recycling rates are among the worst in the country. Lewisham seems to only recycle a dismal 18% (2015/16 stats) of household waste, while neighbouring boroughs Southwark and Bromley perform much better with 35% and 46.3% respectively. Not great but much better.

Poking around Lewisham’s website I found the results of a 2015 consultation delivered to the Mayor and Cabinet in February 2016: Let’s Talk Rubbish. Then an interesting article in April 2016 on Lewisham’s plans to role out a new collection system.

From either, I deduct that Lewisham has rolled out the garden waste program which of course comes at an additional cost to householders. But has anyone heard about the proposed plan to separate paper from recycling (81.44% approval) or the introduction of food waste collection (66.59%approval)?

I’m writing to the Council on the topic but did wander if any gurus online had inside information.

It is arguable that incineration, which Lewisham does a lot of, is not so desirable in inner London but then neither is landfill. These aspects skew the stats:

I think it would be better for there to be kerbside food waste collection than for it to be incinerated. Sutton are in the process of building an incinerator too and the waste gases and particulates could head our way:

From the article @Brett posted:

That’s a staggering low rate of landfill from Lewisham.

We can thank the Combined Heat and Power Plant is in South Bermondsey for that, I think:

Notable that SELCHP also recycles a lot of its waste - the solid stuff that builds up at the bottom of the incinerator is turned into building materials, and metals are recovered.

But whether this incinerator is ultimately good for London waste processing depends on the quality of their exhaust filtering.

Here’s the 2014 annual performance report from SELCHP, from a Freedom of Information request:

All the emissions are within limits - or, at least, the ones they have to record:

Screen Shot 2017-02-20 at 13.13.10.png998×653 75.3 KB

But there have been one or two incidents, which I imagine are quite worrying for residents around the plant:

I remember getting a leaflet through the door about a year ago with how the new waste disposal company for LC will instantly put a recycling truck’s load into landfill if a black bag is seen in there. I’m yet to see any evidence that the colour of a bin bag makes any difference to how it’s recycled.

Hi All

New waste collections arrangements are being arranged as I write.
The contract will come to renewal and from my memory we can expect the new waste disposal to be rolled out before the summer.

Food waste was something that will be included in the new contract.

And as I talk of the contracts the service is outsourced.

The issue with black bags is that they hide what’s inside. Contamination of recyclables with other waste is a serious problem.

Thanks @Brett and @anon5422159 for the feedback. It does put the issue under a slightly different light once realised that very little waste in Lewisham is diverted to landfill. For this LB should be commended.

Thogh Dioxins aside, I would still like to see the %age of recycling in the LB increase significantly. While diversion from landfill is a major objective, we should also seek to reuse resource wherever possible. While incineration firms and councils may claim sustainability, trash at the end of the day is not renewable. Burning these resources destroys these resources for good. And producing new goods from virgin, finite resources requires energy and lots of it.

One could also argue that the reliance on incineration inhibits recycling. It is the easy option for LAs and was perhaps an unsurprising one when SELCHP was commissioned in 1991 as there wasn’t (I recall) any significant curbside recycling program in London.

So while I applaud Lewisham (and Greenwich and Southwark) for their efforts in diverting waste from landfill, I would encourage them to continue improving their recycling efforts. The two other partners in SELCHP have - both Greenwich and Southwark recycle c. 35% - so why can’t Lewisham?

That is not to say that incineration has its place… it does. But after reading the above material I cannot understand why the mix can’t be biased to recycling.

Thanks so much for that update. Great to hear that there is activity behind the scenes. Do you know if LB has a recycling target?

So happy that we will have food waste collection. I became so used to this in Southwark that it pains me every time I throw peelings, or egg shells, or meat fat in the general waste. This summer I’ll have a wormery but that won’t take everything.

SELCHP looks a great example of local authority collaboration.

Why not in other services?

These contracts usually run for a few years, and that is the reason why no changes were done in the last couple of years.

LB has to increase its recycling rates ( even though landfield is tiny). Otherwise we could face fines.

What is also masked is that LB is also encouraging people to compost and the figures for that type of recycling will not be counted as they are difficult to quantify.

Info regarding new waste collections is due to be published on Friday.

I think almost all the workshops were available only during week days so not accessible to working people. The order form for the compost bin hasn’t been working for a while. But I think the £10 bins had to be collected. Again not accessible to people without private transport.

I like that LB is focussing on composting, but I think they can do a much better job of it. Neighbouring Southwark seem to offer a much more comprehensive program.

I would really hope LB would want to raise recycling rates as it is the more sustainable option. Not because of possible fines. LB’s partners in the SELCHP have recycling rates almost twice that of LB. What is stopping Lewisham from achieving the same rather than rely on the incineration option.

Strangely very excited about this. Thanks for the update again.

Looking forward to this. Thanks for the infornation Maja.

Speaking personally, I’d say at least 3/4 by volume of our rubbish is in the green bin. There’s no reason why we’d be exceptional. So why is the recycling rate so low?

• Are people just putting everything in the grey bin? Is that because of ignorance, laziness or lack of civic pride in doing what’s right for us all?
• Do people put things in the grey bin that could actually go into the green bin if they just rinse them out a bit to clean them up?
• Are people putting the wrong things into the green bin, thereby contaminating all its contents and potentially contaminating the whole bin lorry, offsetting all the good of the recycling attempt?
• Is there some reason why recycling is more difficult in certain properties? (Eg, lack of space for bins, council flat estates’ provision of facilities.)

Not prejudging the answers or passing judgment on anyone who doesn’t recycle - just trying to understand why the recycle rate is so low.

The recycleforlewisham blog (see above) addresses this. I think plainly stated the low rate of recycling may be linked to high levels of social housing in Lewisham. Many estates have no recycling facilities.

What percentage of waste is food or garden waste. Remembering of course garden waste is a recent introduction and not a standard service?

Will the food recycling plans include all food waste to be put in a green bucket or just uncooked things like potato peelings? Are the neighbourhood foxes looking forward to silver service a la food waste caddies?

I attended a composting workshop with the wonderfully-named Ms Binns a couple of years ago. it’s true that they’re all during working hours (I was lucky to be able to go), but the workshop was great, very helpful, and we’ve been composting ever since. I think I know that institutional composting is thought to be better for managing food waste, reducing CO2 and and methane, etc. but I think personal composting is more empowering, and you can use your own compost in your garden, bringing you, as an urban-dweller, closer to the circle of life…anyway, we like it.

For anyone who didn’t know this, if food waste goes into landfill it rots and emits a frightening amount of methane, which is a frightening greenhouse gas: it’s an unseen, under-valued source of pollution. A pity also is that the soil of London can really use the nutrients that result from good composting, a shame to send it all up in smoke!

Details published: http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/news/Pages/Changes-to-waste-collections.aspx

Black bins going fortnightly. Food waste bins added (yay, now I’ll have 4 bins in my tiny front area). No changes to regular recycling.

Worried about fortnightly black bins with kids still in nappies. The summer is going to smell disgusting.

Hooray! About bloody time! Well done Lewisham. Now how to deal with the foxes!

Agreed. If the food waste bins can take all the scraps we can’t compost (or sum total if no composter) then there should be plenty of space for nappies. It could get smelly though, let’s see.

Don’t have the link but recall that food waste bins are meant to be fox proof.

Would like to know what the plan is for blocks of flats as these must make up a significant proportion of overall housing.

Indeed. It’s a mistake for Lewisham to do this. Too many bins of different kinds, and fortnightly is just not enough - and if you happen to be away for collection day, it may be four weeks … bad decision. I was living in Camden about 20 years ago and the bins were emptied twice a week.

Why is it that a ‘rich country’ has declining public services?

Expect the public waste bins to be busier.

Southwark’s collection has been biweekly for both general waste and recycling for years and works perfectly well for people who made the effort to recycle well. Even for families with children.

I think the new arrangements are great. So pleased that food waste collections are coming, and fortnightly black bin collections will hopefully encourage people to recycle more. We share a black bin with our downstairs neighbours and our black bin is usually no more than half full on collection day anyway.

We are a family of four, sometimes five. No smelly nappies, but doggy bags. Our grey bin is never full weekly, maybe ⅔ full. With the separate food collection (which I believe will be weekly), a fortnightly grey bin collection seems fine for us.

The page says only people who have their own wheelie bins will get food recycling. So not blocks of flats. Agree, there are lots of flats in Lewisham but guess logistically its too hard.

I hope black bins for flats are emptied weekly. Thinking about the bins just down from waters that service the flats above. They’re normally overflowing with waste on the floor well before collection day.

I’d be a lot happier with the fortnightly collection if Lewisham hadn’t been swapping the old black bins for new slimline ones. Where we previously barely filled the black bin to halfway (as conscientious recyclers), it’s now generally pretty close to the top after a week.

Despite having a reasonable amount of space at the front of our house, having 4 bins which need to be kept close to the footpath is also going to be an inconvenience.

These setups might work well for in the shires with big gardens, but for urban living I think they’re less than ideal.

It will be possible to request additional bin/capacity:

14.3. Additional Capacity Policy
 If the following criteria are met then households can request additional capacity:
o Five or more permanent residents living in the property (4 or more for HMO’s);
o If there are two or more children in nappies;
o If additional waste is being generated due to medical reasons (e.g. adult nappies,
incontinence pads, cardboard boxes).
 The additional capacity provided, if the householder applies, will be:
o Larger bin provided for refuse;
o Additional food bin;
o Additional bin provided for recycling.

3 flats in our house and until recently 8 adults and 4 kids. 2 recycling bins, 1 grey bin and a brown garden waste bin. 2 recycling bins usually full and the grey bin around 2 thirds full. Works for us.

Agreed, and even if the bins are not overflowing, the smell in summer especially is not going to be nice.

My youngest will probably be out of nappies by the time this comes in so it probably won’t affect us.

Ultimately if the bins are overflowing now where is it going to go if not collected weekly? Is fly tipping just going to increase?

Does no one use nappy bags these days? At one stage we had three babies using the same bins and no stink. We had one of those nappy sausage storage things. Worked a treat even in the hottest summers.

We used to have a nappy bin if that’s what you mean, but don’t anymore.

I’m not sure putting each nappy in it’s own plastic bag is a much better solution, but either way in summer in a bin for 2 weeks it’s going to smell.

Some lovely person dropped a load of fish in a bag in our bin a few years, that was horrendous after just a few days.

Food waste is weekly.

My bin fairly stinks with dog poop bags, even with weekly collections. But I can only smell it when I lift the lid. Nappies don’t smell half as bad as dog poop, so I think you’ll be okay as long as you hold your nose when you open it!

These changes always cause consternation when they first come in, but people do adapt.

The Lewisham site talks about recycling / refuse bins for kerbside properties should " placed at the boundary of your property in wheelie bins". So if you have a small front garden (common for the properties in Honor Oak area), does that mean the bins should be wheeled onto the pavement outside the property, or just left in the front garden?

Whilst it says on the boundary, I would leave them outside as they will not get picked up inside the property. Guess how I know.

From bitter experience, “on the boundary” means on the pavement immediately outside your house, and not just inside your front yard or even on your pathway to the front door - that small extra distance would seem to be a step too far for the binmen.

However, on our street, they seem to have no problem with leaving the emptied bins as far as 50 yards away from where they actually collected them…!

Far be it from me to point out again an item neighbouring council Southwark did better, or at least where I lived. The bins on my street were taken each week from inside my property boundary and then returned to my property and the same place.

More remarkable when you consider it was a different team for recycling, food waste and general waste.

In fairness, Jason… on your old street, your bins were literally arms length from the footpath and there weren’t any walls/gates etc. in the way so it was very easy for the bin men to do it. I do note the men who take the black bins on Sunderland Road do place the bin back in our driveway so they aren’t left on the street. This is not the case with the green or brown bins, though.

Often out of site from the street because of hedges. Bin men would check inside bins first. The point is the waste service firm Veolia took that small extra incremental step to make life easier for the customer. Probably also recognising that leaving bins strewn across the footpath was a H&S issue.

This works for us. A family of 5, but we still only half fill the black bin (except at Christmas!). The recycling bin is usually full though; we also have a brown bin and a compost bin in the back garden. But on bin day quite a lot of my neighbours seem to have black bins overflowing with waste, so I think some people will need encouragement to recycle more… the foxes will have a field day!

However yes we do find the bin men don’t always collect even if your bins are on the boundary edge, so we quite often put the black bin out on the street in the morning.

Of course therein lies the problem with neighbours who do not play the recycling game. I did have a neighbour who just put everything including foodwaste in either the general waster or recycling bin. The bin men wouldn’t collect the recycling waste as it wasn’t recycling… and eventually they’d start filling mine.

I reported this to Veolia and they send someone around to have a chat with the neighbours. It seemed to work. Hope they offer that here too.

I agree. I think there’s a good guy on that crew who sets great standards for the rest of the team.

Edit: I should add, I realise these guys are under hellish pressure to get their routes done on time, so that extra bit of effort is really appreciated.

Our guys are great, as discussed, under massive pressure. Bins with grab handles out, a friendly wave when you see them and the service returned is very good.

For physical reasons I’m a bin assist person, but recently bins have not been put back, especially the green bin. The person at the Council who previously dealt with this for me hasn’t replied this time. As I’ve just had shoulder surgery and they know this I’m particularly upset.

I’m sorry to hear of your physical issues. Perhaps one of the @Lewisham_Councillors could offer some advice?

Agree that many will need encouragement to recycle more.

What I am intrigued by is that the food waste will be picked by the same collection as the garden waste and will go in to the same lorry! This seems like a wasteful duplication of effort to me, on the part of council and residents (we already have a compost bin and kitchen caddy). Food waste could go in a brown bin so long as it is bagged. Recyclable bags will initially be provided but will then need to be purchased, or more likely use a paper bag or newspaper - this is another education issue that I can see some struggling with. Am assuming that the food waste collection will include plate scraps and fat etc or else there is no benefit if composting already.

DSC_2271.JPG2160×3840 4 MB

Dumped on Horniman Drive and Ringmore Road. Commercial refit judging by the small white shutters on the pile.

Wonder what it will cost the council to clean this lot?

I do believe I read that putting bins out with handles facing out and prompt return of your bins to inside your property was Required?
The latter is sadly ignored with some emptied bins left strewn across the pavement for days or until the next collection is due, Perhaps a polite notice left on the bins would Help? Also if bins are not placed outside the property boundary on collection day they should not be emptied a simple photo would suffice as proof should the householder complain.
The more efficient we make the collection the less excuse for council tax rises

Wysall, all I can say is good luck to you on that one.

Wysall not sure if this a typo or some cryptic Message?

Typo, sorry

If you have issues with the binmen speak to them and not the council. I have a great relationship with my bin men and they go out of their way to help us. That does not include putting bins back, they just have the time. Talk to people as people and you will be surprised at how nice and reasonable they are. These are the people who have to deal with your shit, day in and day out. They get abused because someone can’t get past them, I have seen grown men get out of cars and threaten them because they have been delayed by 30 seconds. Put yourselves in the shoes of the bin men and think of the job they do and give them a break.

That would be for the working from home and haven’t had to slog into work group, right?

My husband crosses paths with our bin men on his way to the train in the morning. That would be a 6:20am.

In fairness, this does depend on when you go to work and when the bin men arrive. I know streets round here where they are still collecting at 0830. I would guess that the majority who commute are gone by then.

That’s very true. I work from home (lazy slattern that I am) and have still had to contact the council about the binmen regularly leaving my bins blocking my drive because they’ve done it while I’ve been out - obviously.

I do always give them a ‘hello’ when I see them, though.

Bin men in my road at around 6:45 to 7am so easy to catch them. Also, if people have a big enough issue and leave early I am sure they are able to arrive slightly late once in a year. Nothing in life is impossible if you really want it Mr Negative

You mean Mr. Jealous.

Now lets not be picky about being picky! Working from home is hard, the silence only broken by Pop Master, the long walks to local cafe’s, lunches, sitting in the Horniman Gardens checking emails. Dire, just dire

I think my highest score is 18 - but only by adding the two rounds together!

Ha ha. I find some days very easy, other dreadful. My other half thinks I am very sad. She may have a point.

I agree, I got so lonely today that I just had to go for a lovely run down to Peckham Rye Park to enjoy the sunshine (nod to SE23.Life Strava group).

While on my run I did take some photos of what I consider to be the epitome of lazy and short-sighted recycling infrastructure by Lewisham - drum role please …

20170307_132813097_iOS.jpg4032×3024 2.59 MB

20170307_132821671_iOS.jpg4032×3024 2.27 MB

Above are two photos of typical recycling bins outside a block of flats. You will notice that they are padlocked shut and have slots in to feed recycling items in one-by-one. These bins were not particularly close to the front door, so the residents have to collect their recycling in an open container in their flats and then regularly take those containers out of their flat, down the stairs/lifts, feed the contents slowly into these recycling bins through the flaps and then return their containers to their flat. In contrast, landfill waste can be collected in black refuse sacks and thrown into an unlocked large bin. It really pains me how idiotic this system is.

The reasoning supplied by the council to me for locking the bins is that when they were left open, they were contaminated by people putting black bags in.

Neighbouring councils, such as Lambeth, distribute clear orange refuse sacks for households to put their recyclable waste in, and then have open top large recycling bins for large residential units.

When I moved to Lewisham, I was struck how idiotic the recycling system was for large residential units - the council actively make it harder for people to recycle than not.

The Lewisham page says that changes to waste collection including the introduction of food bins is going to be rolled out in October. Did I dream that it originally advised July?

No you didn’t. It has been delayed.

I wanted to ask a quick recycling question: what is the position on whether things like empty glass jars should be rinsed before being put in recycling? On one hand I’m not sure if not rinsing them somehow contaminates/upsets the recycling process, but on the other the amount of water that would be wasted washing items for recycling would surely completely negate the benefits of recycling?

[edit: I have previously googled this but there doesn’t seem to be clear guidance or agreement on the question]

I’ve wondered that too. So I save any recycling that needs washing and either pop it in the dishwasher when there’s room or hand wash if I have a basin of dishwater already on the go. Then it gets dried on the drying rack, then into the recycling bin.

Food contamination is the biggest worry with recycling. Rinsing is necessary to try to ensure that the chances of food contamination are minimised.

I am not sure that washing items for recycling would really use that much water so that the benefits are negated.

Once upon a time I was diligent in this matter. Even ensuring plastic windows were torn from envelopes and plastic film separated from pots and trays. But if my neighbours are anything to judge by, the council must do some manual sorting and extra work. Very few appear diligent in the matter at all.

PS… I have not done a late night survey by searching all the recycle bins.

I also looked on the Lewisham site and it was not clear.

I’ve always understood that the separation hasn’t been important for Lewisham. The issue with food contamination is different because once food gets into (for example) paper, it can’t be taken out again.

Good point. Which is why I never recycle pizza boxes.

Is this the best thing to do, given you can’t really control the grease?

Received this on the door step today.

20170731_1259082988×5312 1.91 MB

20170731_1259182988×5312 2.02 MB

Yes we received ours today as well!

got ours on Monday, however it’s not going to be much use to us, as all of our kitchen waste goes into a caddy already, and then onto the compost heap at the end of the garden. this sometimes includes leftovers from meals, but not often as we either eat everything on our plates, or we put the rest into a container in the fridge and eat at a later meal. the only thing maybe would be leftover bones, but these I tend to keep in a box in the freezer until there’s enough to make stock. Am I unusual in that respect? making use of as much as possible, and there’s hardly ever any food waste in our black bin.
our green bin probably takes two weeks to get full, and our black bin probably only has two bags in it a week, so would take a couple of months to get really full, but then would probably smell terrible. I normally only put our black bin out every other week as it is. We had a letter a few years ago, telling us that if the bin wasn’t full it could be left a week, so that the binmen could do a round quicker with fewer bins to empty. so that’s what we did.

It will make a big difference to people who don’t, for what ever reason, have a compost bin. I think it will also make people much more aware of how much food they waste (if they do) so may have a beneficial effect in that regard too.

we are the same- very little food waste that is not composted already. Wondering how they will want the food waste presented in the new bins - bagged or not bagged? It looks as though they may expect us to use compostable bags, since they say they will provide an initial supply.

Well, do you have one of the 240L black bins or the new (well not so new) 180L ones.

& how much are these ‘compostible bags’ going to cost? If they want us to recycle food I think they should supply the bags. We already pay for the gardening bin, which was something we applied for so don’t mind paying.

Good point. In Southwark these are provided free of charge and on request.