Archived on 6/5/2022

Sourdough starter

Polly_Martin
26 Jan '20

Hello!

Often with tv chefs they tell you to ‘pop into your local bakery and ask for a lump of sourdough starter’, as it saves the two week long process of making your own. Does anybody know of any FH businesses that I could maybe buy a bit of starter from?

Beige
26 Jan '20

you can have some from me if you like. It was originally from a well known, but now shut down, bakery.

Foresthillnick
26 Jan '20

I must see if mine can be reactivated - originally it was from San Francisco (apparently)

Polly_Martin
26 Jan '20

Oh wow that would be amazing! Thanks so much. Let me know whenever you’re free :slight_smile:

Beige
26 Jan '20

DM’d you

graciech
27 Jan '20

I would like some too, please! But possibly in 2-3 weeks, if that’s ok, as only moving (back) into the neighbourhood then…

Thewrongtrousers
27 Jan '20

Have some too if someone wants some. I bake each week. Here is how it turns out

Beige
27 Jan '20

Bake off!!

Foresthillnick
27 Jan '20

Care to share your technique\recipes?
I’m not happy with how mine turn out…

Thewrongtrousers
28 Jan '20

I struggled for ages until I found this video. There is so much well meaning rubbish on the internet. Do what this guy says you will be ok. I have found that you need to be very precise with your quantities of water/flour. The smallest deviation makes a big difference.

Thewrongtrousers
28 Jan '20

Beige they look amazing.

Beige
28 Jan '20

This is how I make it:

Starter is 1 part plain flour to 1 part water. When I feed it I use 100g starter, 200g flour, 200g water and leave covered at room temp for about 12 hours Usually when I feed it I keep some and make bread with some. For my usual 2 loaves I do:

To make the levain:
126g strong white bread flour (I use Matthews Cotswold or Doves Farm)
6g wholemeal flour
134g water
54g of just fed starter
Mix, leave 12 hours

To make the bread:
772g strong white bread flour, 500g room temp water, 20g table salt, all the levain made previously
Mix it all up until well incorporated in the bowl. Leave 45 mins, fold all sides of dough inwards, Leave 45 mins, fold all sides of dough inwards, Leave 45 mins, turn out onto floured surface, cut in half, gently flatten dough then shape into ball, cover with bowl, leave 20 mins, flip dough ball, gently flatten dough then shape into ball, place in well floured banneton, cover and place in fridge for 12 hours.

Preheat oven and dutch oven too 250C. Allow dough half an hour our of the fridge. Drop dough into dutch oven (I never mastered this - I flip the banneton onto greaseproof paper and lower that into the dutch oven and leave it - I failed at dropping it centrally a couple of times and wasn’t enjoying practicing/failing with something which took me so long to make). Cut slit in top of dough, cook for 20 mins covered + 15 mins uncovered.

I have experimented with shorter / fewer of the wait+fold intervals without noticeable change in the final product. I have also experimented with using 30% wholemeal flour. This seems fine, but it’s just not as nice and I recently chose to be influenced by something i read on the internet about how the starter eats a lot of the simple carbs and therefore sourdough whtite bread is more of a ‘complex carb’ food than standard white bread.

Foresthillnick
28 Jan '20

Cheers @Beige and @Thewrongtrousers
I’ll get the old starter out and see if I can reactivate it…

Beige
28 Jan '20

Just curious, how has it been stored?

Foresthillnick
28 Jan '20

Probably too long - 5 months at a guess - in the fridge

Beige
28 Jan '20

I think it might be alright. I’m sure I left mine for over 3 months once.

Thewrongtrousers
29 Jan '20

Beige, the dutch oven is a new on on me. How do you find it compares to just bunging it in the regular oven on max heat which is what I do ?

Beige
29 Jan '20

I have never tried just using the oven, so I couldn’t say. I just followed the instructions I was given and they turned out well from the beginning - I have worked out how to save some effort, but not any improvements.

Thewrongtrousers
29 Jan '20

could you show me a picture of your dutch oven, when you have a moment ?

Beige
29 Jan '20

I have 2, both Sainsburys brand casserole dishes - I got them a few years ago on sale - they were really cheap (£10 or £15?). As the photos show using them for this purpose is pretty tough on their looks.

I think this video’s method is similar to the one I use. He makes putting the loaf into the pot look easy at 3:00 .

All this thinking about bread has inspired me to buy a new book " Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza"

Thewrongtrousers
29 Jan '20

Sounds like a ripping read. I have never heard of baking in a pot before. What effect do you think it has ? Surely it cant get hotter than the oven, so there must be another reason. Do you know ?

Beige
29 Jan '20

I just meant for the bookshelf.

Agree it can’t get hotter. I think it keeps any moisture inside the pot, which helps make a nice crust. Also i think the physical contact with the pot having high thermal mass helps it cook faster at the beginning, which somehow helps it rise.

bigmacca1
29 Jan '20

Wow that looks pukka ? If only you could buy something like this REAL bread locally?

The last time i see Fresh loaves in Borough Market you needed a second mortgage??

Someone mentioned the Budgens shop in Brockley sell proper fresh uncut bread , but

haven’t managed to track it down ? Anyone know ??

Beige
29 Jan '20

Bona and agas both sell decent loaves. Bona is their own, baked on site and I think agas is(/was) brick house or blackbird bakery.

ThorNogson
29 Jan '20

In large traditional woodfired bread ovens, the stone walls floor and ceiling all got a massive injection of heat from a bonfire inside. Then the fire was raked out, the stone floor swept and the oven left for a while to ‘soak’, meaning to even up the heat across all the surfaces. Then all the village loaves were put in to cook with an even, radiated heat coming from all sides, very high to start then slowly cooling, with a crusty base in direct contact with the stone. The cast iron Dutch oven to an extent replicates that radiated and even heat in a small modern oven.

marymck
30 Jan '20

I haven’t ever used a sourdough starter, but Elizabeth David’s book English Bread and Yeast Cookery is my bread bible. Recommended to me 20 years ago by Paul Rankin no less!

It’s a beautifully written history of all things bread, as well as explaining the science of how things interact and oh just everything really. My own history of wholemeal bread making falls into two categories: Before Elizabeth David = bricklike, heavy, best served with a Rennie and a hacksaw; Post Elizabeth David = flavoursome, moreish, glorious texture.

Thewrongtrousers
30 Jan '20

Well i have just popped my dough in the fridge overnight. i will bake it in my le creuset casserole tomorrow and see how it turns out.

Alex18
31 Jan '20

Hi, I’ve just seen this and am wondering if the offer of some starter is still available? I’m no baker but my 91 year old mum is very keen to have a go at some decent bread! Thanks.

Thewrongtrousers
31 Jan '20

Yes Alex, any time. Send me a PM with your address and I will drop you some round.

Thewrongtrousers
31 Jan '20

Hey, what you got in the pot ?

Thewrongtrousers
31 Jan '20

Oh, that looks promising !!

Yes folks - its my first go with the Dutch oven - not too bad wouldn’t you say ?

oakr
31 Jan '20

Looks great!

Alex18
31 Jan '20

That’s really kind, thanks - how do I send a PM?

ForestHull
31 Jan '20

I just created a PM for you @Alex18 and @Thewrongtrousers so hopefully you can communicate :slight_smile:

Note: Private messaging is automatically enabled when you have participated in the forum for a while. Alternatively you can fast-track this by getting your profile verified .

Thewrongtrousers
5 Feb '20

And another …


! I think this dutch oven makes it too easy - if only you could smell this photo !

ForestHull
5 Feb '20

Looks great!

Out of interest, what is it that seems to reliably cause the concentric circles around the outside?

jonfrewin
5 Feb '20

The pattern is from a proving basket - you can see one up-thread in item 20, in the still from a YouTube video.

Thewrongtrousers
5 Feb '20

true that

Foresthillnick
5 Feb '20

Well I have tried to awaken the monster in the fridge.
I think it is vaguely alive but certainly it isn’t vigorous.
Ill give it a few more feeds to see if it wakes from its slumber…

Beige
5 Feb '20

Does it have better texture or taste than you achieved without the Dutch oven? Or is the improvement purely aesthetic?

Thewrongtrousers
6 Feb '20

Good question. I think the texture is much the same inside and the taste is much the same. The crust is better and the there is a crispiness and a crunchiness that I could not get before without burning the outside. Personally, I don’t mind if its a bit dark and almost burned on the top but not everyone feels that way, “her indoors” to name but one. Without the dutch oven the bread was cooked in no more than 45 mins and i had to turn it down to 200 for the last 15 mins. But with the dutch oven i have found I can cook it for just over an hour full blast with no ill effects. I enjoy the added crunch to the base which I did not get before.

Also, now and again I used to get the loaves spoiling a bit due to having a massive air bubble form under the crust and they would deform. There would appear to be this impressive rise, but when you cut a slice there would’ve be a large space between the body of the loaf and the crust. Bit disappointing. it has not happened yet in the pot but it is still early days for me. Did that ever happen to yours ?

By the way, I am surprised that you struggle a bit with emptying the contents of the banneton into the hot pot and you had to resort to the greaseproof paper and lower it in. I just turned it upside down and plonk it in like the guy in your video. I am not claiming to have any great skill here, i just bung it in. I have probably been lucky so far !

Thewrongtrousers
6 Feb '20

it should bubble Nick, and smell sort of sweet

Foresthillnick
7 Feb '20

Seems to be getting there - good load of bubbles last night so I will have a go this evening.

Thewrongtrousers
7 Feb '20

Sounds good Nick, be sure to let us know how it goes !

Foresthillnick
21 Feb '20

It lives!!!

Thewrongtrousers
22 Feb '20

Looks like a mighty fine loaf you baked there Nick. Can you let us see what the inside looks like ?

Foresthillnick
22 Feb '20

Cheers - it isn’t as open as I would like. It is tasty but the texture isn’t quite as I want.
The dough was quite wet so I would have hoped for better but plenty of time to practice…
Any thoughts… I went 500 flour, 290 water and 150 of starter.

Thewrongtrousers
22 Feb '20

I think you need more starter. I can do no better than to refer you to the video i posted where the guy gives the proportions as a percentage formula that you can use no matter what the size of the loaf.

I have finally arrived at the following proportions which just happen to suit the size of my banneton.

524 of flour comprised of 324 white flour, 100gms wholemeal and 100gms of rye. 8gms of salt. 500gms of starter which is 60/40 water to flour content. Then I add between 250gms and 270gms of water. If my starter seems quite thick and gelatinous then I use a higher water content, but if it has been out all night and i start my mix later in the next day, it can go more thin and watery, and so then I will tend to use less water. You will get a feel for it if you keep doing it each week. That is a truly splendid first attempt of yours, really well done ! - keep going until it is as you want it to be.

Foresthillnick
23 Feb '20

Cheers! It rose really well - albeit slowly but lacked that oven bounce.
I’ll try some different combos and go back over the video

Thewrongtrousers
23 Feb '20

Keep going Nick, you will get there.

Foresthillnick
24 Feb '20

So years ago when I first started there was a lot of advice online about using minimal amounts of starter to get an authentic sourdough taste. But looking now it seems I am using way too little and most recipes are similar to yours or the one in the video… I’ll bulk up the starter this week and go again!

Billie
24 Feb '20

I love that this thread has now clocked up more than 50 contributions! It’s such a lovely “slow cooking” story. Very tempted to give it a go. Thanks to all for making this so interesting.

Thewrongtrousers
24 Feb '20

You should Billie. If I can do it, anyone can do it !

Billie
24 Feb '20

Thank you Thewrongtrousers - I will message you when I get round to it. Thanks.

graciech
20 Mar '20

Hello! would you have some sourdough starter to give away by any chance? Cheers, Grace

Beige
20 Mar '20

I thought you already lined me up to supply you! Perhaps his loaves are the more appealing now :cry:

graciech
20 Mar '20

oh hello!! i couldnt find the original post on my phone and seriously thought i had imagined it! would love some from you too! im 33w preggers so in self isolation. thinking this would be a good time to work on some baking experiments. i just mixed some live kefir with flour and have left it on the counter to see what might happen…

Jmarshall
21 Mar '20

Hi there. I like many others at this time am looking to start making my own bread. Some of the loaves here look incredible. I have had little success with making my own starter. It seems to end up smelling very vinegary.

Would anyone here be able to help me out with some lovely starter? I can collect it but will respect social distancing so I guess it may mean leaving it somewhere safe for collection.

Thanks all.

Foresthillnick
21 Mar '20

Hi all,
I am happy to give away some starter if anyone wants some. I’ll need a few hours to bulk mine up and activate it a bit but I am happy to leave some on my path tomorrow if anyone wants it.

Thewrongtrousers
21 Mar '20

The truth sometimes hurts Beige old pal !

Thewrongtrousers
21 Mar '20

I am sure that both beige and I both have plenty of starter to give away. All ready to go. I am in Crofton Park. If anyone wants to come and get some just let me know and I will give you my address. You only need a spoonful to get the ball rolling.

depeche
21 Mar '20

Yes please!

Beige
21 Mar '20

I’m just off the far end of woolstone road and also have starter to give away if that’s more convenient for anyone.

depeche
21 Mar '20

Actually realise I have some in the freezer, gonna give that a go but will be back if it fails!

Foresthillnick
21 Mar '20

Mine has been fed and I have some going if anyone wants any.

Thewrongtrousers
21 Mar '20

The starter is only half the battle. It’s getting hold of flour that is proving to be the issue. No one seems to have any and i have tried about 10 shops today.

Foresthillnick
22 Mar '20

I got a sack from here this week but everything is now out of stock.
Might be worth checking in every now and then though…

@Thewrongtrousers if you are stuck you can a kilo or whatever of mine to tide you over.

Thewrongtrousers
22 Mar '20

Thanks Nick. thats a really kind offer. I have not given up yet, but its good to know you might have some if I get really stuck !

Jessie
22 Mar '20

Been reading this with interest - really keen to make some sourdough and now I’m self isolating I feel like I’ve got the time to commit to it! The advice so far is really useful, just wondering if anyone has successfully made a starter from scratch? There seems to be a variety of methods online…

Thewrongtrousers
22 Mar '20

yes its easy to do. Just mix some flour and water together, and leave it on a shelf with a lid on loosely and after a few days it will start to hubble and bubble ! each one is a bit different because they utilise yeast from the air. So what is floating around your kitchen will probably end up inside it. Not something to do if you have the dreaded virus, I suppose.

Jessie
22 Mar '20

Sounds easy enough - I’ll do that! Haha no don’t have the virus thanks goodness, god that would be awful to have a sourdough full of CV!! Thanks :blush:

Thewrongtrousers
22 Mar '20

Get mixing Jessie !

anon5422159
22 Mar '20

Given the different varieties of yeasts and baking style, I think an SE23 sourdough bake off competition is in order (post-Corona).

In lock down I find myself craving fresh bread. This thread has really sparked my interest in baking my own

ForestHull
22 Mar '20

I’m sort of thinking this might also be a good activity with children - though for my little ones I wouldn’t count on it not just devolving into ‘messy play’ followed by ‘Dad cleans up’.

chamonix
23 Mar '20

If you like bread worth checking out Hollys post about community bread making in Forest Hill.

Jmarshall
23 Mar '20

Thanks to @Beige. First loaf has been made. Very pleased. Thanks for the nice easy to follow steps too. As others have said, I’m now struggling to find flour but hopefully it will start coming back into stock soon.

image

Thewrongtrousers
23 Mar '20

looks like one tasty loaf !

Foresthillnick
24 Mar '20

That looks great - you are a natural!

Foresthillnick
27 Mar '20

If I make a standard yeasty loaf I would always add oil but most sourdough recipes don’t mention it.
I though the oil was supposed to help keep it fresh longer.
Does anyone add it to sourdough?

ThorNogson
27 Mar '20

I’ve always followed Dan Lepard’s method, and he does not use oil. Also, I find that sourdough seems to last much longer than other breads before either going hard or blue - do you find the same?

His method, including making your own starter, is here.

Foresthillnick
27 Mar '20

No I find it goes stale quite quickly which is why I wondered…
Cheers for the link though I’ll take a butchers

Jessie
13 Apr '20

So, first attempt of baking using the starter I started just over a week ago, and pretty chuffed with this! Thanks for all the inspiration and advice here, most useful!

Foresthillnick
13 Apr '20

That looks great for any attempt let alone a first go!
I made a right old hash of one yesterday, it’s tastes ok but it is a little on the dense side!

ThorNogson
13 Apr '20

Looks great, every reason to be chuffed with that.

Jessie
13 Apr '20

Thanks @Foresthillnick and @ThorNogson :grinning:

Thewrongtrousers
13 Apr '20

You are an instant expert. It is so much better than my first go.

Jessie
13 Apr '20

Too kind! Thank you though :blush:

ThorNogson
14 Apr '20

Here’s a sourdough tip I read this morning. Untested by me but sounds a good step in quality control.
‘Homemade bread can be very solid, especially sourdough (Russell’s tip: make sure your starter culture is lively enough by dropping a spoonful of it into water before you start; it should float).’

Foresthillnick
14 Apr '20

I just watched a video with that tip in!
I think I made the simple mistake of making bread first thing in the morning and got my ratios all wrong…
Must wake up properly first!

applespider
23 Apr '20

I’m so happy… Sainsbury’s had bread flour this morning so I can revive Sammy, my sourdough starter, from his enforced fridge hibernation!

On the liveliness quotient, I’d be wary of the spoonful size. You only need 1/2 teaspoon’s worth to test it rather than a big lump - although you can, of course, use the water you are testing it in as part of your hydration in the recipe.

Perkiest starter I ever had was when I converted Sammy to Sami (with a heart over the i), a sweet starter, to make panettone but it looked very dense although the panettone themselves were the lightest I’ve ever eaten.

Foresthillnick
23 Apr '20

Just got my starter out of the fridge to try some sourdough muffins
If I had know you didn’t have flour I would have dropped some off for you as I have a sack!

applespider
23 Apr '20

Thanks Nick. I did see your post and thought about asking you but then figured that I couldn’t say it was entirely essential as I had bread in the freezer. Thanks for offering though.

You can save your discard from feeds and use that for crumpets… v fab!

DevonishForester
13 Jun '20

I’m finally going to try making sourdough, including starter. The starter seems like the easy bit. I am puzzled by the pictures of starter I have seen which use air tight jars. That seems fine for the fridge, but wouldn’t it explode if it’s lively in an airtight jar?

Any recommendations for banneton/basket ?

Foresthillnick
13 Jun '20

I keep the starter in the fridge all week and then i get it out Thursday evening and let it get to room temps before feeding it. Then I just leave it over night with the lid slightly ajar as it does it business. The Friday morning I take about 120 g out and put the rest back in the fridge with the lid on. I give the bit I have taken out a bit of a feed. I mix the flour and water and then leave everything for 2-3 hours. The starter is then lively and the bread\water mix has autolysed. Then mix the starter in…
I use of one these but going to get a longer one because while a round loaf is lovely, the slices can be huge in the middle!!

applespider
13 Jun '20

Mine’s in a plastic lock n lock container. Sealed in the fridge, lid on loosely when I’m feeding.

Before I got bannetons, I used a variety of bowls and even an upturned sieve lined with a linen tea towel/muslin sprinkled with flour (rye or rice flour doesn’t seem to stick as much)
If you’ve got an empty 4l milk carton, you could cut it lengthways perhaps?

DevonishForester
14 Jun '20

Thanks for all the suggestions. It’s day three and a lot of bubbles + fruity smell.

marymck
15 Jun '20

And if you can get hold of a copy of Ray Bradbury’s S is for Space, read the short story Come into my Cellar and be afraid. Be very afraid.

:scream:

DevonishForester
16 Jun '20

It’s interesting how many methods there are: some starter methods require discarding 50% of the starter every time you feed.

The method of mixing up the final dough seems to have a lot of different methods also. Does anyone mix the starter with water before combining with flour?

Foresthillnick
16 Jun '20

I don’t but there are many ways of making a sourdough loaf. I have seen a vid where a guy just mixes the water and starter together, adds the flour and salt and sits back - maybe folds it once or twice, I can’t quite remember. I don’t discard any starter either but I do recall seeing that mentioned when getting the starter going in the first place, I think on the grounds that you would just end up with too much!

applespider
16 Jun '20

Until your starter is actually usable (7 days or so after you start) then it’s sensible to throw half away, otherwise, if you are feeing equal amounts of starter, flour, water then you’ll end up using a lot of flower very rapidly. Once you’re using it, then you just incorporate the feed into the amount you need and you have less waste.

When I’m baking, I do add the water to the starter first and then the flour/salt. That’s just how I found it easiest to incorporate it. That way I know it’s throughout the flour… when i added the flour first, it all seemed to get a lot sticker and clumpier initially. I leave mine alone a lot of the time - just a few stretch and folds rather than lots of kneading.

DevonishForester
17 Jun '20

Apologies for monopolising the thread with the narrative of my first sourdough … well, my dough has been ‘resting’ for 18 hours. But it seems to be very restless - a bubbling fizzing blancmange, four times the size of the dough ball I left overnight.

I combined 250g of starter with 500g of flour.

Foresthillnick
17 Jun '20

Well it is obviously alive and kicking - that is quite a rise! I suspect it may deflate a bit if prodded though…

applespider
17 Jun '20

As a feed or as the start of a sponge for a recipe?

My usual recipe for 500g of flour, is 200g of starter, 310g water and a tsp of salt. I feed the starter with 100g of flour/water the night before, mix up the dough in the morning, stretch/fold over the course of the day, shape mid-afternoon and bake in the early evening.

If you just mean that you’re still feeding to stabilise the starter, that’s generally why they suggest throwing some away… 500g of flour is a lot to feed with. In theory, you’ve now got 750g of starter… which is a lot of loaves…

Foresthillnick
17 Jun '20

Just for comparison my recipe is very similar.
500g flour, 350 of water, 200g of 50/50 starter and 12g salt. This gives a workable hydration of something like 72% (I dont have my spreadsheet to hand!).
I have no idea how people handle 80% hydration dough as mine is on the limit for me…

DevonishForester
17 Jun '20

The intention is for this to be the dough for a loaf. Still very sticky though, difficult to handle and I’m leaving it in a bowl for now (hoping it will dehydrate!) because I think it would stick to the tea towel I was planning to to use inside a colander.

The recipe was from Marriage’s (flour mill) website, but the amount of starter is much higher than others e.g. Borough Kitchen which specifies 180g starter relative to the same ingredients as Marriage’s i.e. 500g flour and 300g water.

applespider
17 Jun '20

This one from the kitchen side of their website which is similar to Nick and mine. Or the 'bakery’ one which seems to make a lot more so has greater quantities.

18 hours feels a very long time unless you’ve had it chilled for some of the time - you might end up with a pancake as the dough will over-prove and have nothing left to rise with.

One tip that I got from a Dan Lepard book was to lightly oil your hands and work surface when working with a wet dough… it can make it feel less sticky.

Doughs and flours are funny beasts. I bought some from Sainsburys a few weeks back and used it for the first time in a pizza dough recipe. It really didn’t work well with my usual recipe/quantities. Just didn’t develop and stayed ‘pastey’ rather than turning into a good dough.

DevonishForester
17 Jun '20

I saw the Bakery recipe which I combined with Borough Kitchen. But the Marriage’s Kitchen recipe looks good, clearer instructions and shorter period for resting dough.

I probably gave myself extra difficulty by going for 50% rye wholemeal. Anyway it tastes great but is quite flat.

Not sure I could have done it without the advice and support on this forum!

applespider
18 Jun '20

Congrats! If it tastes good, that’s a win! I think it’s a rite of passage, that virtually everyone’s first sourdough loaf ends up a bit flat. Mine still sometimes comes out less than perfect. I sometimes just cut chunks and slice them lengthwise :joy:

I suspect that trying to amend recipes did make your life a bit harder - particularly around timings etc. Did you slash your loaf when you put it in the oven? It also looks a bit like there was nowhere for it to rise to?

PV
20 Jun '20

Does anyone know of anywhere local that sells rice flour?

applespider
20 Jun '20

I got mine from Waitrose as I was getting a delivery. Sainsbury’s list it on their website so guessing Bell Green should stock it. If not, I’d think that some of the Chinese supermarkets or Khan’s on Rye Lane would be likely sources.

dansus
21 Jun '20

Anyone still looking for a starter, Bread Ahead in Borough market will sell you a tub of it for £1.50. They also deliver home baking kits.

dansus
21 Jun '20

My recipe is pretty simple, havent got time to mess about with it too much, but it works for me. Start mixing about 4pm.

Mix 100g of starter with 300g of water, 50g of rye flour and mix till combined. Let it rest for 45 mins.

Add in 5g of sugar, 10g of salt and 400g of strong white flour. Mix until combined fully and leave it to rest for 45mins.

For the next 3 hours, once an hour, stretch and fold the dough and place back in bowl. Wetting your hands with water helps.

Final stretch and fold, shape the dough and place in your proving basket (banneton) seam side up.

Pop it in the fridge uncovered, overnight.

Next day, heat oven to 220c. If you using a dutch oven, you can put it in cold, works better this way.

Turn out the dough straight from the fridge onto a peel and score the top with a razor blade.

Bake on a stone with a water pan for 25mins, then turn down to 150c till done. (another 10-15mins)

dansus
21 Jun '20

Tip for storing your starter without using up loads of flour.

Save just 20g of starter after making bread and store it in the fridge, when you want to bake, feed it 50g of light rye and 50g of water and store it somewhere warm like on top of the fridge. In the summer, it will be ready in about 4 hours.

I call it the minion method.

DevonishForester
22 Jun '20

Do we need a new thread on Baking Tech?

I was browsing bannetons online and read this: “Before first use, spray the inside slightly with an enzyme-free releasing agent to protect the rattan, and dust with flour.”

Anyone using “releasing agent”?

Foresthillnick
22 Jun '20

A new thread is a good idea!
I just give it a clean and dry it after use - then dust with flower when I need it. I didn’t get on with the cloth insert thing as it seemed to make it stick even more.

applespider
22 Jun '20

Yikes… I’ve always just dusted mine in either rye flour or rice flour - and then, at the end of day, knocked out any surplus flour and left them to ‘dry’ out.

I did use cloths for a while; linen scrip or muslin seemed to work. I wrecked a tea towel or two…

Beige
22 Jun '20

I leave my banneton to develop a continually thickening coat of dried on flour - it’s not as disgusting as it sounds and the dough is less inclined to stick.

DevonishForester
23 Jun '20

In the link, he doesn’t specify times for the dough (maybe more details in his book). I find it difficult to understand the differences between 1) leaving the dough to rest 2) proving in a banneton. Some recipes also have a third in-between period of laying on a table after shaping but before putting in banneton. Anyway I’m making a second attempt tonight.

With a yeasted loaf you can ‘prove’ in a tin, why does sourdough need a basket?

I guess I’ll just have to find a method that works for me. And the flours all vary a great deal. My sense is that I’ll probably settle on a predominantly rye starter with the main dough made with T65 or white stoneground.

applespider
23 Jun '20

My timings are mix ingredients, wait 10 minutes, stretch, 10 minutes, stretch 10 minutes, stretch 30 minutes, stretch 1 hour, stretch 1 hour, stretch 2 hours. Shape for final prove - somewhere between 2-4 hours (the warmer the weather, the shorter the prove) and bake.

You can prove sourdough in a tin and get a regular tin shaped loaf but I think traditionally it’s always been boules or batards so that’s what people shape for. I suspect also that you might end up with a lot of ‘burst’ from the top of a loaf tin as the dough would only have one direction to expand in?

DevonishForester
23 Jun '20

I did have some anyway -

The period from mixing the dough to putting in the oven, about 9 hours.

Better than my first attempt, but still needs refining - a little underdone.

What’s the reason some recipes go for overnight in the fridge? The fridge slows everything down; why slow this process down? Does the flavour benefit from the extended time together of all the ingredients, even if there isn’t much happeneing?

Foresthillnick
24 Jun '20

Yes - the flavour is said to develop if you leave overnight although sometimes people do it because it fits in with a schedule… I have seen some videos where it takes 48 hours from start to finish.
I try for minimal effort but I need to be around for the best part of the day which is difficult if you are working and want bread for Saturday morning. So I used to get up early Friday and make up a dough and leave it in the fridge to rise and then I would come home and prove and bake. It wasn’t overly successful given my penchant for a couple of beers on Friday night!
I have a system now but I still struggle with the last bits so I might try a few different things. I think that is part of the appeal for me - you can mess around with techniques till you find one that suits…

dansus
28 Jun '20

I spray on some water and dust with rice flour.

Beige
26 Aug '20

I just produced the most inedibly sour tasting crumpets from my starter. Do you have any tips or a recipe, pls?

applespider
26 Aug '20

Haven’t made them for a while but seem to recall adding something to sweeten them (sugar, agave or honey), a pinch of salt and a little bicarb. And to pour off any liquid from the top rather than mixing through.

applespider
18 Feb '21

Does anyone have a sourdough starter that I could take a spoonful from please?
I had to be away from home for a while to bubble with my vulnerable mother and now I’m home, my Sammy sourdough is no longer bubbling despite my best efforts to revive him.

I can, of course, start from scratch again but thought I’d ask if anyone had an established one so that I could get straight to the bread making.

Thewrongtrousers
18 Feb '21

I can bring you some over if you like. Its V good stuff. PM me and i will peddle over with some in a bag in the next day or so.

PV
18 Feb '21

The sourdough starter community is my favourite thing about this forum :man_cook:

DevonishForester
18 Feb '21

I would be happy to give someone a couple of spoons of starter. I do let it run down at times when i’m not baking, then I pour off the clear liquid before feeding it. A while ago after a few weeks break from baking, the surface looked a bit grey, so I discarded that top layer. After a few feeds it soon perked up.

BTW if you have too much of the stuff, don’t throw it out, it’s very good fried.

Beige
18 Feb '21

I often don’t use mine for 2 months, stir the repeated liquid all back in and give it a feed and. It’s fine. Perhaps I have a hardy one.

Thewrongtrousers
18 Feb '21

Fried !! are you serious ?!

applespider
18 Feb '21

Thanks @Thewrongtrousers. I’ve PM’d you.

Fried - hmm… I’ve made my into drop scones and crumpets before but haven’t tried actually frying it… How do they come out, @DevonishForester - like little sourdough crisps?

Foresthillnick
18 Feb '21

Yeah it makes a sort of pancake or drop scone…

Thewrongtrousers
18 Feb '21

Yes, a ‘sort of pancake’ sounds about right.

DevonishForester
18 Feb '21

This guy gave me the idea. From 2:15

les28
18 Feb '21

Yesterday’s effort…

Thewrongtrousers
18 Feb '21

Now that looks good Well done. What’s your secret to getting those fab big holes ?

les28
18 Feb '21

Following the Tartine recipe. First method I have used that really works.

Foresthillnick
19 Feb '21

Would this be the Tartine recipe?. My recent efforts have been a bit lackluster so looking to liven things up.

les28
19 Feb '21

Here it is…

Thewrongtrousers
19 Feb '21

splendid !

Philippe
19 Feb '21

Home sourdough as well, using a starter offered by a neighbor.

I’m mixing wholemeal (which I feed the starter on), malted seeded flour and strong white for lightness.

ForestHull
19 Feb '21

I’m loving the re-emergence of this topic - did all you bread makers know it’s real bread week starting tomorrow?

Philippe
19 Feb '21

I found the 15 mistakes… video linked up very useful, but honestly I’ve simplified the process quite a bit, still with great results.

For one, I feed the starter (at room temperature) every couple of days instead of daily, and I don’t do the shaping/turning with cloth and instead put the dough on baking paper inside a container covered with a film and leave for a few hours before putting in the oven.

Also not using a Dutch oven: I’m just using a round roaster (thin metal) as it was all I had :smiley:

Thewrongtrousers
19 Feb '21

Dutch oven every time for me now. Makes a lot of difference to my own loaves.

DevonishForester
20 Feb '21

Agreed, I think there are many ways to make sourdough successfully. Some methods seem unnecessarily elaborate.

applespider
21 Feb '21

Thanks @Thewrongtrousers for some very lively starter. Had a successful bake today…

Thewrongtrousers
22 Feb '21

Looking good there Dom. and we enjoyed the beer - Cheers !