Ignoring the Southern Rail pain of the last 12-18 months. What is the London bound commute generally like? Bearable level of busyness on trains or intolerable. Thinking between 7:30 and 8:15am to London Bridge or Canada Water.
@Joey_H is your man for this 
Never do the London Bridge route, but trains never seem too busy around 7.30am or before (I tend to get an overground train between 7am and then).
I never get a seat on the Overground (from HOP, FH maybe, no idea) - standing room only and gets busier then empties out at Canada Water. I think (and this is an assumption) that the trains starting in Crystal Palace are less busy than the West Croydon ones.
I think getting an overground at 8.15am will be very busy \ rammed but others can comment. On the rare occasions I’v done it I remember it being a bit of a squeeze just to get on \ letting trains go by.
Hi I am using the London Bridge service daily between 7:30 and 8:15 and so satisfied with it, always a seat, nice modern clean trains hardly ever cancelled and even during strikes services from forest hill usually running, same on commute back, afraid I hate goon on the overground to Canada Water and avoid it, victim of its own success
Early is definitely better if you can…
When i’m not cycling in, I tend to get to 6:55 into London Bridge and have yet to be delayed*, or not got a double seat to myself. Back when I was dropping the boy off at nursery first, I’d aim for the 08:10 and have an approximate 1-in-5 chance of getting to London Bridge by 09:00 (either through late train, last minute cancellations or long waits outside London Bridge for a platform) and spend the whole time squeezed like a sardine - maybe that’s gotten a bit better as the LB works have progressed.
I tend to get the Overground home from Whitechapel @ around 5:30 - 6:00pm, and it always staggers me the sheer volume of people that get on at Canada Water, as Insight says;
*I’ve probably jinxed myself now - no doubt i’ll spend the next few weeks standing at Forest Hill wondering where all the trains went.
I’m quite happy to let the overground trains leave the station without me and wait for a Southern train with plenty of seats. I’m also one of those people who get the 7:12 or 7:20 or 7:31 trains and arrive in work before 8:30am.
The southern strikes have rarely impacted our services and we don’t have guards on our trains. On occasions (two or three in the last year) when Southern trains weren’t running, the Overground was very busy. At Forest Hill we were able to get on trains (at least before 8am) but by 8:30am at Brockley people were queueing round the block to get into the station, and even then had little chance to get on a train.
However, we are lucky that we have two separate train operators serving our station and that saves us from the worst disruption. And when sink holes develop under the track there are fast services from Catford Bridge and a good (but slow) bus service to Waterloo and Victoria, or the P4 connecting us to the Victoria Line and the DLR.
0731 FOH to LBG is my favourite commute. Although I have to use the Jub Line, I’ll often take the LBG train just to be able to sit, with a choice of seats, and enjoy my coffee.
Took the 0752 FOH to LBG train the other day and didn’t get a seat. Fine margins!
You’ll always get on an Overground train, but don’t expect to get a seat…do expect people to huddle in the doorways (grrr) just so they can get a jump on the rush at Canada Water, which is frankly horrid.
I work in South Kensington, and my fastest route is Overground to Canada Water -> Jubilee to Westminster -> District to South Ken. But if I do that route I NEVER get a seat on any of the trains/tube. Instead I usually time it so that I get on the Southern to Victoria which is practically empty at Forest Hill so I always manage to get a seat with a table. Then change to the district at Victoria. Even though this increases my commute by around 7 minutes or so, it is much more peaceful since I only have to change once and always get a seat.
Similar to others above, I get an early (either the 06.45 or 06.54) train from FOH to LBG. I then take the 421 bus from LBG to Aldwych. Traffic isn’t really an issue at that time of the morning. Never any issues getting a seat on either train or bus. This gets me into my office for 07.30/07.45.
Which then means I can leave at 16.00. The commute back is a little different. Because of the Kingsway underpass, there isn’t a bus stop for the 421 between the Southside of Waterloo bridge and High Holborn, so I tend to do the Waterloo/Canada Water/FOH commute home. Even at 16.00 in the evening, this is not pleasant. It’s bearable though. And there’s never a seat to be had. The interchange onto the Overground at Canada Water is just a bunfight. If I could avoid it, I would. When the temperature rises in the Summer, the Tube is horrid so I try to get a train at Waterloo east and change at London bridge to get a train to FOH. It takes a lot longer to get home though… but at least I am not a sopping wet mess of sweat like I would be on the Tube.
London Overground trains are generally fine at any time until you reach Brockley when hoards of people get on and it usually becomes very uncomfortable until Canada Water (this is during peak times between 8-9am). On the evening commute home Canada Water can become dangerously overcrowded between about 1730-1830 on the southbound platform.
My one big gripe with Overground (which perhaps Joey_H might be able to explain/address or even solve!) is this: LO trains have air conditioning but it almost never seems to be on, or it kicks in too late. I’m going to assume the answer will be it’s on some auto setting and kicks in automatically when the temperature reaches a certain point. That may be the case but if so it’s simply not doing what it’s supposed to. Many many many is the time I’ve stood in an overcrowded sweltering carriage praying to hear the sound of it kicking in only to finally hear it when we get to Surrey Quays (i.e. 30 seconds before 90% of passengers are getting off). With summer approaching and temps already high on LO trains (where there are no windows that can be opened) if I find a magic lamp my first wish is that the sort out the a/c.
According to travel advice sites, my quickest route to work near Charing Cross is the over/underground option via Canada Water. But for reasons well described I don’t bother with that during rush hours (or most times). I take Southern from FOH to LBG then a quick change of platform to CHX. In the morning there is a CHX train leaving LBG about every 2-3 minutes.
In order to miss the main rush I generally take the 8:45 or 8:52 trains. I always get a seat on Southern, and then when I switch to Southeastern at LBG. Any earlier train including the next earlier 8:22 is pick and mix. Half the time I get a seat… the other half no. Plus there is a much greater chance I’ll be packed in standing on one of the ancient Southeastern trains for the final part of the journey.
So if you do go later, my sweet spot to start is the 8:45 from FOH to LBG. Forget overground.
Thanks all for your info. Appreciated
One other thing to consider, on the overground anyway. On the rare occasions I have got an overground past 8am, it is quite often a few minutes late, and runs late due to taking more time at each station, so you need to allow for an extra 10 mins for a 20 minute journey to be generally safe.
@Bolgerp, why don’t you take the 176 bus to Aldwych, or Jubilee Line to Waterloo? First is less stressful, second easier and quicker.
The other benefit of the Southern service is that it is £400 cheaper for an annual ticket than it costs for a travelcard needed for Overground.
Since the beginning of this year my ‘Southern’ ticket also works on the overground/jubilee line route apparently due to industrial action that only makes my life easier!
Double-win.
@Bolgerp means 521 not 421. I used to take this from LB to Holborn as it is very convenient.
But twenty years ago when I worked in Aldwych I would get the train to Waterloo and walk over the bridge. Again, avoiding buses saves a good proportion of the cost of commuting, and it isn’t necessarily bad for you!
The 176 takes forever to Aldwych (90+ minutes). I really don’t like taking the Tube so try to avoid that where possible. During strikes or where trains have been cancelled, I have taken the Overground from FOH to Canada Water and then the Jubilee to Waterloo. Whilst this is quicker than FOH to LBG and then bus, it’s only quicker by about 10 minutes and it’s far less comfortable.
Sorry @Michael you are correct… it’s the 521.
I now work in St Pauls and take the 521 from London Bridge daily. It’s a lovely all-electric bus and comes every couple of minutes so is hugely practical in the morning. There are occasionally serious problems with traffic flow enroute to St Pauls, but the driver generally lets me off in a jam and I can walk the remainder.
The London Bridge train is lovely. The overground is a hellish pit of sweaty rage-filled finance workers trying to get to the escalators at Canada Water before anyone else. That’s why they all stand by the door and refuse to move up into the aisle. Unfortunately I don’t have the luxury of leaving early as nursery doesn’t open til 8 - fortunately I only have to do it three times a week.
Costs three times as much to do new x gate, bus, dlr at deptford Bridge but I do it nor often than I should.
I am one and I’m definitely both sweaty and rage filled on that train 
Totally unrelated… but @Elfo29’s post makes me want to ask the question…
If sex workers are to prostitutes, what are finance workers?
I do this most days and it takes an hour. Other method 45 mins.
Morning
London Bridge - it’s Ok. Get a seat most of the time except for after 8:22am where there’s a 20 minute gap to 8:45am due to a service they removed that never came back. The journey 9/10 times takes longer than advertised due to congestion. 20-25min. But I enjoy taking it easy with my coffee.
Overground - horrible especially after 7:45. The one from West Croydon no way in hell. Crystal Palace is a bit more bareable because you can get a position in the middle of the carriage. It calms down after 9:15am.
Evening
London Bridge - awesome. Had zero problems for ages and it only takes 14 minutes to Forest Hill. Always get a seat. Only gripe is theres a 30 minute gap between 17:53 and 18:21. Service removed that never came back.
Overground - insane until about 7pm. Crystal Palace one there’s more space. West Croydon people are more desperate.
Having said that the Overground is really really liable. The air conditioning is useless though. It doesn’t kick in until after new cross gate when the train can really accelerate. Before then it’s a hot box.
Arrrgh. The only thing I hate about the return journey is waiting on the concourse for the platform to come up for a train leaving in two minutes.
And watching the late Victoria train disappear from the board when the departure time passes, only to reappear at some point when the train arrives.
Actually @Bolgerp, best route for you is train to London Bridge, them train to Charing X. Easy switch, trains to Charing X come constantly, and ride is 5 mins.
Interesting. So, why is it that a Pay As You Go fare is 20p more going via National Rail terminus, say London Bridge, than the same journey via tube & Overground?
It’s a 10 minute fast walk up The Strand to my office from Charing Cross… I’ve tried all options a few times to see which works best for me… Train to LBG and then the 521 is the fastest/easiest.
PAYG is a bit more complicated than that.
At peak the cost of the Southern train is £3.50 and the cost of the Overground is £3.30
Off peak the cost of the Southern train is £2.60 and the cost of the Overground is £2.80
So each method is 20p cheaper at different times of day - which of course is ridiculous.
If you wanted the cheapest return journey and were travelling in the morning peak, you would travel out in the morning on Overground, and back on Southern later in the day. Do it the other way round and you are paying 40p more.
These are journeys to London Bridge only.
Continuing beyond London Bridge the Overground fare does not change as you travel anywhere in zone 1 or back out to zone 3. However, if you take National Rail and then change to underground the cost would be £5.10 or £4.10 depending on the time of day.
I go to Canary Wharf and although the easiest and quickest route is Overground to Canada Water then Jubilee Line I tend to avoid that because the change over at Canada Water is so horrible. I go to Wapping and walk the two miles along the river or if pushed for time change at Shadwell and on to the DLR.
I have to say I find the Overground OK - I tend to get it at around 8am - it is crowded but not unbearable and as people say it tends to empty out drastically at Canada Water.
Ok, whatever works for you! I find the 521 down Holborn so slow.
Since a few people have mentioned the temperature on London Overground carriages at peak times and the inexplicable refusal to use the air conditioning that all trains are equipped with, can I suggest regular passengers take a moment to raise this either on twitter @LDNOverground or by filling in the passenger form on the TFL website https://tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/contact-us-about-tube-and-rail
Maybe if enough people point out the idiocy of passengers suffering in sweltering temperatures in overcrowded carriages when the trains concerned are all equipped with the means to alleviate that problem, then something might be done before the mercury climbs over the next few weeks.
Thanks for the info - always appreciate you taking the time to provide some insider knowledge. I did say originally I suspect it’s an automated system so my comment about refusal wasn’t aimed at drivers but that, as a passenger, even when the weather is hot, the A/C seems to be off far more often than it’s on, which suggests the automated settings are not fit for purpose.
Your comment that the system works fantastically in summer I need to take issue with. There are at least 4 separate posters in this thread who have commented on the temperature (or alluded to it by the fact that everyone is sweating!). For some reason the system seems to be NOT working more often than it is in my experience (and I’ve used it every single day for the past 2 years). I think part of the problem is a greenhouse effect - the sunshine through the windows directly onto passengers can make them very hot and uncomfortable even if the ambient temperature in the carriage is only (say) 20C. It also just seems to take a long time to react. If the temperature inside the carriage is 20C but then 50 people cram into a carriage at Brockley (which happens!) then it immediately makes it extremely hot and uncomfortable, but as a couple of people have noted, the A/C never seems to kick in until about Surrey Quays (northbound) some 10 mins later.
The frustration as a passenger is knowing how effective the system is WHEN IT’S ON, yet standing on sweltering trains most morning wondering why it’s not on?!
Two reasons I think personally.
The air-conditioning is rated to “European Standards”, which basically means they aren’t very strong. This is to make them more energy efficient and probably cheaper to install.
Like a car, the air conditioning doesn’t really kick in hard until you really get going / rev the engine. Between Crystal Palace / New Cross Gate, the train only accelerates for a very short time before coasting to the next station. Whereas after New Cross Gate there is a long uphill drag / fly over which really gets the engine going.
I travelled from NW London back to Forest Hill on Wednesday, taking a slightly different route than normal - getting on the Overground from Whitechapel rather than Canada Water. Although the platforms appear to be covered, in fact rain was pouring in and it was difficult to find somewhere dry to wait. This was the case at Whitechapel, so I took the first train (New Cross) to the next station intending to get out and wait somewhere dry for a West Croydon or Crystal Palace train. But Shadwell and Wapping were also inadequate for offering the waiting passenger somewhere dry to stand. Rotherhithe was OK. It is extraordinary what we put up with in this so-called Global City.
Reading this thread reminds me why I cycle into the City every day instead of taking any type of train - thanks everyone! In case anyone’s wondering, it takes less than 30 mins to the City or Canary Wharf and even the West End as we’re pretty much equidistant from everywhere up in town. And it’s free. And it keeps you fit 
Which directive/regulation are you referring to?
Can’t remember. Thats what some London overground employee quoted me when I emailed them. I can’t find the email.
I think our public transport in London is amazing, world class in fact. Yes, improvements can always be made and a comment made at the right time would help.
Thanks for checking Hollow. After discovering how much was blamed on European law leading up to Brexit, I’m on a mission to fact check each statement to see for myself from now on!
My preferred route (to Millbank) is to walk to Crofton Park and take the 8.43 to Victoria and walk, or go to Catford and pick up a Charing X service and walk from there. The overground is unbearable and usually have to wait for a few to go by to get on at Canada Water on the way home, CP a much better option though you do have to switch at Denmark Hill on the way home.
I take the overground between 8-8:30 ever you day as I do nursery drop off so can’t avoid it. It’s usually fine, it’s busy and you can’t get a seat until Canada Water but generally I consider it a good journey - it’s far far better than many tube lines I’ve lived on
Reading through all of this I am so thankful that I work in Dulwich and ride a bike. My commute generally takes over a few hills and through a few parks. Ok not so nice in the middle of January but a really nice ride when the Sun is out.
The London Bridge trains are generally OK at those times you mentioned. Often standing room only but not veal crates like the Overground becomes by the time you get to Brockley. The worst times to hit Canada Water are between 8.00-9.00 when the Jubilee trains are so packed only a handful get on at a time. They have adopted a double queue system at each door and that queue can be 15 people deep sometimes. Also worth mentioning that the escalators from Overground down to Jubilee are very very inadequate so expect to queue there too.
The Victoria train every half hour is far more civilised but gets packed by the time it gets to Streatham Hill. Change at Balham for the Tube or to jump onto the Milton Keynes/Shepherds Bush trains that take you over to West London.
It has to be done though unfortunately.
YES - what its it with the LO aircon? It’s always gets switched on at certain stations but not before. I know the one from Clapham Junction is off until Imperial Wharf when suddenly the cool air comes flooding down.
I switch between various routes. Into work (leaving FHill at any time between 7.30-8.45), I almost always take the London Bridge service – Overground is a cattle truck and, on the rare occasion when I can’t get a seat on the Southern train, it’s still not as much of a crush as the Ginger Line as the aisles/handholds only allow single-file standing. Depending on how crowded the Jubilee Line is, I’ll change at Waterloo or Green Park for Oxford Circus. At the end of the day, I’ll either walk to Charing Cross and change at London Bridge (while fondly remembering the old direct services to FHill). I may also get a train at Victoria to Forest Hill – it’s a longer journey, but with less faff. Just grab a seat, relax, and give the dinosaurs a wave as you pass Crystal Palace Park! I only use the Overground to get home if I’m able to catch a train a lot further up than Canada Water, or if I’m travelling a lot later than rush hour.
Thanks Joey, that all makes sense, although hasn’t it been a while since coal-fired steam was used?
Do you mean covered? I could find nowhere without water pouring through the ‘roof’, but it was a heavy storm.
I agree re New Cross Gate - a tiny bus shelter-style cabin on the new platforms, totally insufficient and it leads to passengers sheltering on the covered stairs, which blocks access to and from platforms …
OK so the covered areas are the issue - ‘covered’ but not rainproof, something like an ecological sprinkler irrigation system to keep commuters from drying out. As you suggest, it’s probably some listed engineering heritage that can’t be touched …
When is the time right, and to whom should the comment be made?
When you experience the issue. Did you report this to TfL and/or LOROL?
No. I would not expect anyone I would have access to at TFL to know whose responsibility this might be.
I had to look up LOROL to check the acronym. Again I expect to be dealing with front line staff who’s job it is to make me feel tired and give up and keep me away from decision makers - who generally answer to …