Unsafe crossing for pedestrians, Honor Oak Rd and A205/London Rd

Is it just me, or is the pedestrian crossing at Honor Oak Rd and A205/London Rd (on the petrol station side) super dangerous? I don’t understand how with the amount of foot traffic there to get to the Horniman, there isn’t a proper pedestrian crossing light. The number of times I’ve been scared for my life, dragging two kids across that rd… and I’ve seen big groups of school children running across with their teachers too. Is there anything that can be done? Or is there a better way to cross that we’ve all missed?

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Yep - I agree. They redid the layout recently (summer or last summer) but made it so that as a pedestrian at the Honor Oak Road crossing you can’t actually see the traffic lights and they also removed the ‘red/green men’ indicators too.

I’m guessing it follows the thinking that pedestrians will be more careful of themselves if they aren’t given green lights, but the problem is that children may not be so careful and so having a green man is a good idea. Allowing the pedestrians to be in a position to see the traffic lights, or repeated lights, would at least be some help.

I think there was a consultation for the changes here: https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/streets/a205-london-road-and-honor-oak-road/

In my view, they totally failed to improve the crossing and have made it significantly more dangerous for pedestrians, especially those with children.

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There’s definitely a bit of a knack to crossing that road, at one point when the lights kick in you have a 5 second or so gap where there’s no traffic - lived on Honor Oak Road for about 9 years and it wasn’t always easy.

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I got involved in a right ruckus with someone at that crossing about a year ago when a pedestrian stepped out in front of me on my bike (lights had just changed to go for me)
Could have been avoided if there was a ped light…

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It’s a bad situation for everyone isn’t it? As a driver too, it really freaks me out having people jump out in front of my car

Is there anywhere I can raise this to the council? Sorry I know this kind of thing comes up all the time, but with 2 kids, the fact that I don’t forget my name sometimes is an accomplishment!

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I think you would need to take it up with TfL. Also the 2014 consultation had the following to say, (linked in my first post on this topic):

I’m not sure it was also appreciated that pedestrians also would not be able to see the traffic signals so can’t even be fully confident signals will remain at red when crossing in front of stopped cars.

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Wow. I am baffled by this. “People don’t wait for the green man anyway, so let’s not put it??? It slows traffic down??” There is a huge museum right there with so many visitors from forest hill station… how could they say that? I feel worse now than I did before when I thought it was an oversight!

And thanks for the extract btw!

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Yup, and I think the worst is that it’s probably less able persons that would actually wait for the ‘green man’ who are now in the most danger. Specifically I’m thinking of those with reduced mobility due to disability, prams or small children in tow.

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London councils do tend to use pedestrians as traffic calming measures.

I wonder if this is due to it being on the A205 and TFL prioritising the traffic flow at all costs?

I hate that crossing. If I get a bus up from East Dulwich, usually laden with shopping, that is the crossing I have to use to get to my road. I have taken to staying on the bus to the next stop. A little longer to haul my shopping back but the crossing near Sainsbury’s is safer.

I love living in Forest Hill but the presence of the South Circular and the apparent prioritisation of traffic over pedestrians really impacts on the quality of life here.

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Sorry off topic from the original post but to also add to bad crossings…

The same could be said about the Tesco’s petrol station crossing on Honor Oak Road. Doesn’t actually provide an allocated time for pedestrians to cross and there’s no “crossing man” on the lights. Terrifying for parents crossing with young children to get to the Hornimans and just truly unacceptable in this day and age. Just another example of how our high street favours cars over its residents.

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On that one there’s a little positive news. There was a consultation that agreed a new road layout at the junction with pedestrian crossings.

Although TFL were supposed to start work in 2020 so who knows when it will happen.

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Ahh finally, that junction is pretty dodgy wether you’re walking or driving.

Quite a few of those residents are in those cars.

However, I agree with you, that junction is not a good one. The summer walk through the Horniman to the school was challenging at times.

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And many aren’t. Only about half of Lewisham residents own cars and the South circular is a major London artery so many people using that junction will be driving through.

For me it isn’t an either or but a rebalancing the public realm away from the car driver more to the pedestrian.p

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The thing I can’t fathom is that as a pedestrian trying to cross Honor Oak Road at that junction you can’t see any of the traffic lights. I recall that previously (up topic) there was comment from TfL that a signalised crossing for pedestrians would slow down traffic, but that’s no excuse to design it so that pedestrians can’t even see the vehicle traffic lights from the crossing points.

It’s just such bad design, I don’t know how the design could have been approved and implemented.

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Focusing on a US V THEM argument doesn’t help. It would possibly be more productive to focus on the issue, the crossing.

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I explicitly said I wasn’t doing that.

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But you explicitly did it:

Marginalising people’s legitimate interests on the basis of them being a minority? A nasty line of thinking.

Lewisham is a climate where community leaders, councillors and their “grassroots” social media campaigns actively promote this divisive “us vs them” rhetoric against residents who own cars, so I don’t blame you specifically, Hannah - it’s just a prevailing environment of division. But we should be mindful of it.

It’s disappointing that there seems to be zero interest from the Council or the GLA / City Mayor in tunnelling the A205.

Meanwhile, if the A205 is what we’re dealing with, then there is no reason it should remain as 30 MPH through Forest Hill - especially near amenities such as the museum and the station.

Other Boroughs have reduced speeds of sections of A roads to 20 MPH. A good example is the A1 from Highbury corner towards Holloway. This stretch of A road has tube stations, University buildings, many shops and restaurants. The speed is 20 MPH and heavily enforced. Needless to say, all the pedestrian crossings are single phase with plenty of time given for the crossing the road.

Currently, vehicle traffic definitely has priority over pedestrians in Forest Hill.

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