Vaccination creating rifts in the nation?

It would appear that the vaccination has caused rifts in our population. I am very happy for all those jabbed and been given a sticker. However,

It is my free will to not take it, any risk I take is on me and not delegated to the State. That is my choice, however I was called selfish for this by a lockdown zealot – someone who agrees with the shutting down of society and the way we live in its entirety in order to protect a very small and very easily identifiable group of people at risk of Covid, regardless as the astronomical cost on health, education, livelihoods, small business, mental health and civil liberties. These people could be shielded if they so choose while the healthy get on with life and support the economy to support the vulnerable. Society is NOT optional. There has been relentless propaganda as to the risk of covid, which far outweighs the actual risk. We have had 10,000s of people dying of other causes yet attributed to covid. We have been manipulated to the point at which anyone who chooses not to engage with the narrative is called a conspiracy theorist, when in fact all you have to look at is the figures.

In terms of standardised death rate 2020 was LESS deadly than every year before 2009. And lockdown deaths from lack of access to medical care and other support and the psychological impact of isolation and loss of livelihood, is estimated by the ONS to be up two fifths of the overall death toll.

Anyway, thankfully the Royal College of General Practitioners (RCGP) have opposed mandatory vaccination.

We have intelligent people wearing face masks outside, it’s a charade, a pantomime, if only the stage wasn’t promoting a needless fear. And the fear is far more dangerous than covid. Human beings are not designed to live in fear, it erodes our spirit. The fear justifies unchallenged State intervention. And has led to people taking a vaccination for a virus they have virtually no risk of dying of, which is their choice, but we have been manipulated by an unquestioning media and government opposition.

We are heading towards no jab, no job, and what if it’s then no jab and no food?

‘The impulse behind authoritarianism may be communist or fascist, or nationalist or corporate or institutional, but the methods by which it proceeds are in each case the same: the stamping out of the capacity for individual thought and freedom, not merely by physical force, but by complete denial of privacy and by the control of all information, even to the extent of policing the language in which thoughts are expressed.’
Robert Harris on George Orwell, 1984

This seems fairly insulting to anyone that’s lost their lives, loved-ones or livelihoods to Covid.

While your personal risk of death from Covid may be low, this doesn’t mean you won’t get seriously ill, require healthcare or further spread Covid to others - who may be more vulnerable than yourself.

If a person is able to be vaccinated but chooses not to be, to me it seems entirely fair that the person should be restricted from activities which may put other people at risk. This is already the case for certain professions e.g. some healthcare roles demand a Hepatitis b vaccination certificate in the UK.

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I can understand people feeling frustrated, but at this stage I just cannot comprehend the stance that we’ve gone too far and done too much. Despite the measures that have been in place there were 4000 people a day being hospitalised with covid at points in January. Whether one thinks that masks are silly, or that lots of people die anyway, is there seriously a movement that supports turning these people away from hospital to die so that normality can continue? Like practically, what should hospital managers have done if serious cases kept growing past that point as we’re sadly seeing elsewhere in the world?

But what baffles me more is how many lockdown sceptics are also vaccine sceptics - surely if you’re ardently anti lockdown the prospect of taking a vaccine (presumably on top of many childhood vaccines already swirling around in there) is something to grasp with both hands in order to end the detested lockdown. It just seems utterly bizarre that there’s such a vocal group who want neither lockdowns designed to mitigate harm, nor vaccines designed to prevent that harm occuring in the first place. “We think the measures in place to save lives are disproportionately impacting our freedoms, but we also don’t like vaccines so people should just get on and die like they would in a few years anyway, but whatever you do, don’t you dare ask us to do something to help.” :man_shrugging:

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“These people could be shielded if they so choose while the healthy get on with life and support the economy to support the vulnerable”
Whilst I appreciate the frustrations clearly felt being part of society involves recognising the impact of ones’ actions on the rest of society. Those vulnerable to Covid have lives, jobs and families too. The disabled people I work with have children of school age, jobs, families, the need for carers fo come into their homes and to have hospital visits. We can’t just lock “them” away as a nebulous ‘other’ and let everyone else go back to pretending this never happened. Those vulnerable to Covid are my friends, co-workers, elderly parents etc, people who’s lives are as important and valid as anyone else’s.

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Well I have been done today at a Lambeth vaccine centre as my GP is still in my former locale.

I am a few years under the 45 plus age group but got an invite this week from my GP - they must be racing through them.

All very quick and efficient. No effects yet but planning a very easy weekend just in case.

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When this is over I think we will remember those who threw a tantrum and refused to play their small part protecting people and helping get us back to normality.

I have just been vaccinated. I am healthy and very low risk for Covid but for vaccines to work as intended we need enough of the “herd” to take them up. I see it as my civic duty.

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Given what is happening in India right now, it seems like an incredibly poor time to resume this COVID conspiracy nonsense.

There are plenty of vaccines that practically every one in the UK takes as children. They don’t just exist to protect the person receiving the vaccination, but to provide the herd immunity that protects those who cannot or have not received it. They have saved countless lives.

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Read 1984 my friend. You are being played I’m afraid. I wish you all the positivity there is. Break the fear and you are free. Lockdowns are utterly immoral. People claim to believe in Society, but you do not. Not really. It’s something you say but don’t feel. You think it can be switched off. It cannot. We will fight, and win, for what is right. Freedom. Take care. x

Orwell made some astute observations and predictions, but I personally don’t believe they apply here, my friend.

By the way, Orwell died in 1950 of Tuberculosis - a once prevalent disease for which we now routinely vaccinate children…

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To promote thoughtful discussion on what could be a contentious discussion, this topic has been set to slow mode.

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Tell that to the people in India that are facing one of the most devastating surges of the pandemic so far.

The human suffering, like the suffering of the families of the 150,000 people dead in the UK, is horrific.

Please take your conspiracies elsewhere.

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Sigh. Hiding under my duvet? Like a lot of people I have been out working all through this in a key worker role, supporting people and organisations.

What have you done? Except spread nonsense online.

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I was told there is some hesitancy in the younger age groups so they are going down the lists. Got mine on Friday at Guys (I’m 44). More fool the sceptics, I hope the vulnerable aren’t harmed.

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the vaccines. I don’t believe an adult will be easily swayed one way or another by reading something on this forum.

Indeed they are. The faux concern gets me. No one is loving this, it is horrible. If the poster was genuinely concerned about the impact of lockdown they would be volunteering and taking their vaccine.

As others have said it is pretty bad taste as we are daily watching India descend in to hell. That is what uncontrolled Covid and an overwhelmed health service looks like and it is terrifying.

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Yeah I don’t think many of those people marching today were very normal mate…

So you’re virulently opposed to lockdowns, and the mechanism by which we can begin opening up the country without endangering the vulnerable?

Personally I think you’re completely selfish and this isn’t the first time on this forum I’ve seen this half-baked Qanon nonsense from you. You’re not fighting for “freedom” and “society”, you’re having a tantrum because you don’t like what you can’t control.

I’ll agree with you that there is a rift in society, between those with empathy and those without.

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Been taking the train into work lately due to lack of parking on site and I keep getting told on the train’s intercom that “BTP and TfL officials are patrolling the network” yet I’ve never seen any. If we’d taken the pandemic seriously from the get go then life changing fines should’ve been issued to those who protested last summer.

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I actually think that lockdowns are disasters in economic and social terms, and that should be acknowledged. An example here is me as a person based in Canary Wharf - I can work perfectly well at home, but the catering and cleaning staff in those far off towers are furloughed and in due course may be unemployed. If lockdowns carried on ad-infinitum, then there would be very bad medical impacts as well. That needs to be acknowledged.

The question is whether lockdowns are required to avoid an even worse disaster. I would argue that in pre-vaccine days, yes; now with a large proportion of the population vaccinated, then I hope that we do not return to lockdowns.

However, I cannot not deny that opening up will not lead to some extra cases, some of which will be hospitalised and some will lead to death. It will not be possible to go back to a situation where there is not some risk in my opinion. But trying to avoid any risk will be unacceptable as that would mean prolonging lockdown ad infinitum. Mr Whitty made the point that society has accepted flu deaths being higher in some years and that is where we will, I am afraid, need to get to with Covid.

My encouragement would be to take the vaccines and the lateral flow tests - not to eliminate Covid - that will not happen - but to reduce it.

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