Waters fishmongers



Awareness does seem to be lacking somewhat. I told a mate who lives in FH that we had a fishmonger her and he was delighted but surprised. He doesn’t use much social media and was totally unaware of the existence of Waters.
I really do hope they come back and do it with style.


Steve popped in for a chat today, he’s setting up a crowdfunder to get back up and running again so I’ll post the link as soon as he sends it to me.


Just seen the crowdfunder link on Twitter.


Wow that’s a lot to raise in a short space of time. Will donate what I can but it’s a shame they have been closed for so long, I would have spent probably more than I can spare right now on fish and veg!


I’m not sure how I feel about this. I love the fact that there’s a greengrocers and fishmongers in Forest Hill and on my way home. I did use them but it always felt like they were over extending themselves or something was missing. 25K is a lot of money and I don’t think the community should be assisting a local business in this way - what’s the money going to be used for? I think a better explanation is needed. If it’s failing then as sad as it is, something’s not being done right. I also don’t feel that this is the best location for it either. That stretch of Perry Vale / Waldram crescent is not the nicest area - if it was opposite the station in the old shoe shop or somewhere at the bottom of Dartmouth I’m sure it would be busier.


I’m all for supporting local businesses but I’m struggling to see from the crowd funding campaign what the money to be used for?


Unfortunately I agree, somethings not sitting right with me - the unexpected closing with the explanation of a hurt foot/back and then no update for ages and now crowdfunding for a huge sum.


Sadly I feel the same way too. Not that I have ever used the shop, but it is a very confusing situation.
May feel differently were it a well established shop I had used for a long time just needing a hand to get through a rough patch.


I hope @WatersSE23 takes the opportunity to respond to these questions and to ensure people understand this crowdfunder.

To have a locally-run greengrocer and fishmonger in the area is an asset to everyone, even those who don’t use it (all homeowners benefit financially from the gentrification of the high street). So despite my free market ideals, I can see a case for a crowdfunder amongst local residents. We must know in advance, though, how this will produce a sustainable business.

What is it that’s challenging the business? Finding staff? High business rates / taxes? Marketing? There may be ways that forum members can help aside from donating money.

I wish them the best of success.


Agree with all the concerns expressed above. If this was an established business, facing a specific crisis, I’d be happy to get on board. Similarly, with Leaf and Groove, crowdfunding made sense. It was specifically for getting the shop fitted out and ready for business, a business that will support a community asset (the library).

I’d love to support Waters for all the reasons @ChrisBeach mentions above. But I would need reassurance about how the money would secure the future of the business.


I’m in general agreement here. While I desperately would like to see Waters succeed, I would like to understand how this £25k would be used to create the business they hope to achieve. How would this overcome the challenges they must of met in their first few months.

To me £25k seems a particularly high figure compared to other similar crowdfunds that I’ve seen.


I agree, and I think Snazy raised an interesting point. If it was for say the card shop, who had an issue with sewage and never reopend, I think I may have felt differently. There’s been plenty of opportunity for Steve to let this forum know what’s going on but i don’t remember seeing any posts from them. It’s just been heresay and a sign in the window.

I do wish them well, they’re nice guys, they’re just asking for a lot without giving much back. And as much as I really want to be able to buy fresh fruit, veg and fish, we can’t just keep an unsuitable business going.


Interesting point, but still not one which would inspire me to throw money at a business I don’t use.
If a business can’t stand on its own two feet after a certain period, it clearly isn’t making the impact that would suggest it was an asset to the area.
Its a pretty niche market really, and certainly only delivers small volumes, so seems almost unsustainable.


I was a relatively regular customer but also slightly confused by this. I’d love for them to stay in business, and would continue to shop there if they do.
However I also believe that to be sustainable long term they need to find a more traditional mode of financing. If there was something in return for me I’d consider giving some money - but not for a pure donation. (shouldn’t my custom be enough?)
Also I’d like to see a more comprehensive business plan for where the money is going - is it just contributing to their general overheads or are they looking to invest the money somewhere specific to get a return.


Agree with most of the points stated. I thought at times the business wasn’t run in the right way (shop not been open around Christmas time and no explanation as to why on the door, later it was explained they had revised opening times). I don’t think the shop has been marketed well either.

I would contribute a decent donation because I really value the shop. But there needs to be a comprehensive rationale.


I wish Stephen and the team all the best of luck, but I am also concerned by this. Crowdfunding generally seems to follow one of two models - either purely philanthropic for things like a library or a park facility which don’t necessarily make money, or someone who is trying to get a business off the ground.

For the former it seems common (and sensible) to ask for donations. For the latter there’s usually some kind of reward structure (often with the reward deferred). I get the sense that Stephen needs some capital, but given that the shop has premises and has been fitted out, I feel like the money is being requested as a donation with only the vaguest sense of where it’s going.

While the aims of the venture and the mission statement around seasonable and sustainable produce are admirable and sensible, is there a business plan? Many others have commented previously about unpredictable opening hours (and days) and if the business is going to succeed, it needs to be stable.

I really hope @WatersSE23 can clarify the situation on all of this. Walking past the shop almost every day, I would love to be able to use it.

On a slightly separate topic, the end of Perry Vale has so much footfall from the station that I really hope others can see past the slight surface scruffiness and that other businesses can thrive here alongside local gems like @finches, EJ Carpets (and the chicken shop) as well as the newcomers like @ClaptonCraft and the fishmonger.


It is a bit cheeky like, but you can’t blame a guy for trying.


And let as not forget @PiazzaCucina. Among the best pizzas in SE23.


We were so excited when we saw this place was opening. We buy loads of fish and make regular trips to Billingsgate - so this could have meant an end to those 5am starts! But we visited once and won’t go back. They charged my husband £9 each for two smoked mackerel! When he questioned it they said that’s what they cost… not anywhere else it’s not! I pass by daily and it’s never seemed to have got things right, and this crowd funding doesn’t sit right with me. Seems sad as a good fishmonger would be such an asset to the area


Throwing money at a problem isn’t always the best solution; perhaps, if they haven’t already done so, more thought should be given as to what aspects of the business could be improved such as their target market, marketing, opening hours, pricing, special offers.

Perhaps consider home delivery, if they don’t already, which may attract the elderly, infirm and housebound, and office delivery for office workers working long hours.

Also personal canvassing of pubs, restaurants and cafes in surrounding areas.

I would not donate, as, in my opinion, in the seeming absence of specific allocation of funds, together with the absence of any promise of a return, this looks to me to be more of a gamble than an investment.