It’s begging might as well sit outside the Co op
If their bank doesn’t consider them viable for a £25k bank loan then I wouldn’t invest. And having had a career in the ‘money markets’ one would assume he had contacts in the financial world who would want to seize the opportunity. Oh hold on a minute, it’s not an investment. You won’t get anything back. Not even the offer of a voucher or a discount at a later date. Sorry but I reserve my ad hoc donations for charities. An appeal like this would actually put me off going in there.
I think it’s a shame that this enterprise is struggling, as I think a lot of us were really pleased to have a fishmonger as well as a butcher’s. I have had some very nice fish from Waters. The trouble for me has been the unpredictability of the opening. There have been several occasions when I haven’t been able to use them because of unexpected closures. I understand there have been personal/health issues for the owners, but if the shop is closed, customers can’t actually buy the produce. I wonder whether the original business set up was viable, so the question is, will this funding make a difference to that viability.
£9 for a smoked mackerel?! Sounds like they’re just pulling the prices out of thin air. I eat loads of fish but I’ve not been in there as it’s looked really uninviting every time I’ve peered in.
If you don’t want a 5am start you could always use Sopers in Nunhead. Fab fishmonger and the standard others are really up against for me. Much as I agree that a fishmonger in Forest Hill is an asset, Waters have not come close to this IMO even allowing for the limited range of a startup.
Perhaps they can turn this around and I wish them best of luck as it is a tough market. I have used them a few times but see no need to donate for no clear need either as others have mentioned. I think it is useful to compare to the recent successful Coopers Bake crowdfunder - key to this was the clearly defined objective of a sustainable business via a new oven which was also significantly funded by the company. They also promised funders some rewards, other than jam tomorrow, which I think helps the pitch somewhat.
I wouldn’t even pretend like I could open my own small business. But if I was selling fresh fruit / veg I would have opened up near Sainsbury and The Butchery to get the shared footfall.
The Butchery has already done years of hard work to build up a loyal fan base with a high disposable income.
When I lived near the South Circ I probably ventured to the east side of the tracks maybe once a year. If that. Yes it’s coming up now with more shops, but it’s a slow process.
Obviously it’s easier said that done. I know shop leases don’t come up very often.
I bought some items from there and they were good. But their opening hours are erratic and their produce varies. So I stick with Fresh and Fruity/PFC in Sydenham (and get a bit of exercise while I’m at it) and Julian the Fish Man who sells boxes of very good flash frozen fish from his van. I think throwing money at a failing local business to keep it afloat (if that what this appeal is about) is not the way to do it. They’re obviously not providing enough of what people want if they can’t turn a profit.
I guess it is one of those things, small market place, small stock levels, equates to having to have some quite high prices.
While it is noble to offer such a service, it is sensible to see if it is sustainable. I like fish, but am happy with the mainstream prices. Same with most foods tbh.
Being a real lover of fresh fish and ending up always going to the very reliable Moxons My other half and I tried on several occasions to shop at Waters especially because they did Sushi grade fish and I try to eat a mainly raw diet wherever possible.
it was NEVER open-it had often closed earlier than expected or not opened at all.
as previously stated had it opened near the Butchery or on Dartmouth road I think with reliable opening it would have done well.
but to be honest after FIVE attempts to shop there we gave up
I’ve liked it when I’ve been, barring one time when I paid ultra-premium prices for some tomatoes that were long past their best. But that can happen. It’s an asset to the area. But agree that a crowdfunder to subsidise an unsustainable business model doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense on first view.
Also, despite living on Perry Vale, I don’t think I’ve ever caught it open since they began. I hate the idea that a local business with worthy aims is struggling, particularly following an apparent health setback. However if they weren’t able to construct a contingency plan when disaster struck, and aren’t offering rewards or safeguarding now they’re asking for cash, I wouldn’t touch this, however good their fish is. That might sound harsh, but I think crowdfunding is wonderful when both sides of the transaction are giving something.
Noticed this update from the crowdfunding site
Just a little update and a massive Thank You to those that have already been so generous and donated.
We’d also like to say thanks to everyone for their feedback too, we’ve had some really positive messages of support.
As an added incentive (or you could call it a reward!), we would like to offer £12 worth of fish for every £10 donated.
If there is anyone looking to make a donation / investment, but would like a more detailed outline of the business plan, please feel free to contact me and I will happily discuss.
Thanks again for your continued support.
Stephen and the Waters SE23 Team
Crikey. That’s £30,000 worth of fish!
They’ll be needing a separate crowdfunding page!
Depends what their mark up is. £12 retail presumably costs them a lot less than £10 to buy in. Still, it’s an ‘interesting’ offer and at first glance might suggest a very bad business model indeed!
£12 worth for a tenner is a nice little reward, or 20% discount for a period would make sense, but 120% return!
Over what period of time?
This gets weirder and weirder by the minute.
Surely it would also make sense to be a little more transparent about the money and its use, rather than asking to be contacted.
I would have thought it would make more sense to try and establish why the existing model is failing before throwing more money at it.
Is this offer a considered one, or a panic response to criticism about the lack of incentives for donors?
Seems a badly thought out one to me or badly worded at the very least.
Pretty sure that it is further to this thread though.
Just a shame there isn’t more information and transparency on the whole matter.
If there were more information it might help a/ stem the negative comments and questions, and b/ encourage more contributors to it.
It’s a 20% return to the investor. Not sure what your 120% is.
If I was going to be part of the crowdfunder I’d be worried they would go out of business before I could get my fish. Retail margins are often around 50%, so he’s going to have to find £15000 to cover these rewards… seems a bit fishy to me.