Waters fishmongers



Sorry. An announcement was the wrong word for me to use. As you noted they have done that. What I meant was given the love shown them over cat gate, and more broadly on SE23.life a bit more engagement would’ve been nice.

But on second though given the hard decision they had to make I’d probably just be making a general announcement either.


I may well be mistaken, but I thought one of those announcements was made in response to a suggestion by Pauline on twitter that they should advise on their Facebook page ( or vice versa)?

Just before their demise I was told they were no longer taking bookings, not at lunch time at any rate, so people not following twitter or their face book pages and arriving in expectation of a meal would probably have liked to known the situation by reading an approprate notice at the restaurant entrance.


I agree but think there were even more problems than that.
The mix of fruit and veg and fish was a very odd one- the smell of the fish was a bit off putting when buying fruit and veg and the selection they had was all expensive, niche produce. I had hoped for a good range of ‘basics’ but sadly this was not the case, between that and the odd opening hours I didn’t really feel compelled to visit often.


I do agree that a lack of communication with customers was a major problem with the Perry Vale in the last six months, if not longer.

The discussions here on both these businesses suggest fundamental problems with the businesses themselves, which is actually rather encouraging, in that these are things new businesses can learn from and avoid. Losing two businesses in the same area does, as @Snazy pointed out, suggest location was the problem, but I think maybe it was only one aspect, and one that could have been overcome with the right business model.


This is a great shame. Steve worked so hard before the place opened and he faced a number of unexpected hurdles along the way that delayed his opening. (that said, I’ve never yet known a small business open a shop on time!)

He’s a really nice guy and this was a great shop with some really positive plans going forwards, but too many of the fundamentals were missing. The much discussed lack of regular opening times, signage that should have been up from before day one, and a lack of a phone would be things I’m sure he would have changed with the wisdom of hindsight. A great shame for Steve and a sad loss for Forest Hill.


I would have used Waters a lot if it had been a proper greengrocer with a large range of fruit, veg, and herbs, and if it had been open more and for longer hours. Before they opened I wrote them and asked them to check out the north London greengrocer I had just moved away from, which is fabulous in every way, with a huge range, and open till 9 or 10 pm. The focus here did not seem to be on the greengrocer side of the business. I still would be thrilled if we had something of the sort here – I don’t care which side of the tracks as long as it’s open when I need to use it.


I believe it would have fared much better on Dartmouth Road or London Road. We have a lovely range of shops along Dartmouth Road. Sugar Mountain, Stag and Bow, two delis, great cafes, and Dartmouth Road gets a lot of through foot traffic with people going to and from the Swimming pools. All it would need is a few more businesses and the tatty empty premises will shine, and increase visitor numbers.


I did make The Perryvale aware of the support they had on this forum when their twitter account was hacked & they had to deal with that horrible situation- I feel very sad about the outcome now.

I also feel very sad about the outcome with Waters too.

I have at some point contacted both businesses privately to offer support in different ways, and IMO for what it’s worth I don’t think being located on Perryvale was an issue in both circumstances.

I don’t think it should put anyone else off opening a business on that side of the tracks as others flourish.

I wish all involved the very best of luck, though do feel sad that we have lost 2 great independent businesses.


I am not convinced the issue was the location. I don’t think that conclusion can be drawn for Waters, given how often and unpredictably it was shut. If it had been open all the time and more contactable, and had still not had the footfall, maybe we could start saying that the location was a issue (although as a dweller on the perry vale side who uses shops all over forest hill, including the farmers market I’m not convinced!), but the fact is, if you aren’t open, people can’t buy things, and if you are only open unpredictably, people will stop going because they wont be able to rely on your being open. But stil it’s a shame.


I feel like the right offering would have brought people to it, and as a biased Perry Valer, I’m quite keen that development actually take root on my side of the tracks.

I really hope the PV and Waters sites get picked up by genuine insight-driven tenants next time round. I think we’re missing a few key offerings.


Right with you there Fran.


Just noticed the fish man is there outside WH Smiths after all. Maybe he should park around the corner in the afternoon!


New businesses that deal with perishable goods - e.g. fish, fruit and veg, baked goods, need to have sufficient capital to make a loss for a significant period in order to establish a reputation. Fresh produce must be fresh to attract customers, and there is considerable waste throwing away stuff that has passed its best. Very difficult to compete with supermarkets that can make money on aisles of long-life goods and only need to break even on fresh goods.


Is this a regular visit? If so when?


Grant come to FH early every Thursday morning, but normally leaves around lunchtime.


Yup regular. Sorry I would have snapped a shot of his stock and prices if I had thought properly.

Cheers for the info @Pauline I knew he was regular but not the ins and outs. Maybe someone should tell him about the void left by Waters


May be a naive suggestion - but is there some way of sharing the formerly-Waters shopfront between multiple pop-up vendors? Fish man on Thursday, florist at Valentines, baker + coffee in the morning etc?


I was thinking more of letting him know, so he can stick a cheeky sign up to say when he is about. And maybe contact info for any requests.
After all, fresh fish is wanted around here by all accounts. Might as well help him supply what people are after.


Hehe, very cheeky - reminds me of the crazy days of #PosterGate


Grant the fish man is, as suggested, a regular on Thursday. Happy chap and will take orders if you ask or text him. His fish is very good and very fresh.