During the height of the lockdown a trend I noticed on here and elsewhere was that people who I’m guessing are a similar age to me (mid 30s) were feeling that their time in London was coming to an end and were looking at moving further afield. I’ve accomplished what I set out to do by coming to London and I’ve been here just shy of three years now and feel it’s time to move further out into the Home Counties. I’m not trying to bash SE London as I know a lot of you have put down roots here and quite like the place. If anything, I miss the countryside and relative peacefulness like you can’t imagine. However, due to the nature of my work if push comes to shove I’ll have to commute to central London to work on the big concrete frames you no-doubt pass on your way into town.

Anyway, on rightmove I’ve been looking at the rental market(s) of NW Kent and Surrey. I’ve had a drive around Sevenoaks and Tunbridge Wells and they fit the bill in terms of last minute commutes into London for work, things to do and access to London and the countryside. I’ve also looked at Brentwood in Essex but purely for price comparison reasons.

Are any of you guys looking at moving out to the towns I’ve listed? If so, can you advise me on areas to avoid, etc? Mumsnet can be useful but they seem more interested in playgroups and where to buy the best coffee.

I’ve been in London for 37 years, 22 in SE23 and I am done. I love London but it is a love hate thing and I need some peace and quiet.
I can’t help you as I am moving further afield - about 1300 miles! I have bought (am in the process still) of buying 6 acres of land with a couple of houses in a place called Cartaxo, Portugal. If it works out i’ll stay forever and get citizenship…

If passenger numbers remain low, services are likely to be cut. Maybe we’ve passed ‘peak train’.

All I would say as someone who grew up in the country do not assume you will find peace and quiet!

My home here in SE23 is a lot quieter than my dad’s house in a rural village.

Think very clearly about what you are trying to gain through your move - quiet, bigger house, access to countryside, change of lifestyle etc… The places you mention are not really the countryside but pretty large towns in Kent.

If you are commuting back to London you may not have much time to enjoy your new found peace and quiet.

If you do look at moving to a more rural village be prepared for a very different lifestyle and different problems - the grass is definitely not always greener.

Finally I grew up in Kent and have family in a few areas of the county. It is a lovely place and I adore it, but you have picked out a couple of well heeled and pretty expensive towns. There is a lot more to Kent that that. Be warned though there are also a fair few places with significant issues with poverty, deprivation and lack of employment. I myself prefer the coast (it is where I am from originally) and would love to return at some point but wouldn’t want to move there all the time I need to be in London for work.

Isn’t ‘I don’t like living in Forest Hill, where should I move to?’ quite an odd question to ask on a Forest Hill forum?

Not at all, @robin.orton. After leaving Forest Hill I remain fond of the place, and interested in it. People don’t lose their connection with an area the moment they leave it, and in this case, “Forest Hill alumni” might be able to share some useful info here about the decisions they made when they moved on.

Also bear in mind no one has been critical about FH on this topic. There’s no need to be defensive about the area.

Best wishes for the big move, Nick, and thank you sincerely for the several years you contributed to this forum as a moderator. Will miss you being a part of our team here.

Right as always, boss.

I wonder how much future there is for big concrete frames. In terms of offices, 40 story towers make little sense if you can only put 2 or 3 people in a lift. On Thursday I have a trip to Canary Wharf re medical checkup (courtesy of my employer), my first trip into the Wharf since March.

Afterward I shall go to the Dockland Museum and then walk around to see if any of the old haunts are open. I expect something of a ghost town. The Spoons will probably be open, but not the £6/pt (or more!) places.

Whereas in SE23 its fairly busy, pub and restuarant wise.

Just to let you know the museum closes earlier now. We were there last Monday. Didnt manage to see it all before it closed at 3.30. Although they started clearing us out at 3.15. Had booked entry for 1.45. So give yourself enough time!
Ps spoons indeed open.
Anyway back on topic. Also looking at moving further out to get more space for money and option of into city or countryside. But still absolutely love Sydenham & Forest Hill and move is more driven by change of circumstances. Recommend the area as definitely think slips under the radar a bit. I know I wont have the nice shops, bars or as many restaurant options as we do here in zone 6. Yet.

When I moved out of SE23, I looked in detail at Sevenoaks and Tunbridge Wells, and I also visited Brentwood (I grew up in Essex, so this appealed from a family PoV).

I ruled out Brentwood after visiting it, as it confirmed my fears about the “TOWIE” vibe. Also, the countryside in Essex is pretty flat and featureless - very different from the Garden of England with its unspoilt woodland, hills, vineyards and lovely coastal towns.

So, between the two upmarket Kent commuter towns:

Tunbridge Wells

Pros

• Within the High Weald AONB. A short walk from any part of town and you’re in gorgeous countryside, unbroken as far as the eye can see.
• Many outstanding state primaries, two outstanding state secondaries (grammars) with 100% of pupils scoring 5 x A*-C, plus one state secondary with 71% of pupils scoring 5 x A*-C
• Beautiful high streets, including the famous Pantiles (http://thepantiles.com/), and winding cobbled backstreets. Historic architecture dating back to the 1600s, plus lots of beautiful Victorian housing stock
• Immaculate landscaped parks inc Calverley Grounds and Dunorlan Park with its large boating lake
• Loads of exceptional restaurants (inc Michelin starred) and pubs. In fact, more quality restaurants than SE23 and SE22 combined. Some examples:
  • https://www.illbemother.co.uk/thebeacon
  • https://theivytunbridgewells.com/
  • https://www.thackerays-restaurant.co.uk/
  • http://www.vittleandswig.co.uk/
• Near to Bewl Water for watersports, 45 mins to the South coast.

Cons

• TW-LB: 6 trains ph (42-51 mins). LB-TW: 5 trains ph (40-52 mins). Last train from the city 00:29 https://www.thetrainline.com/train-times/london-bridge-to-tunbridge-wells
• Season ticket is £4928

Sevenoaks

Pros

• 9 trains per hour in to the City (in as little as 22 mins), 8 per hour home. Last train from the city 00:29 https://www.thetrainline.com/train-times/london-bridge-to-sevenoaks
• Season ticket is £3708
• Knowl Park
• Large Waitrose and M&S in town

Cons

• Good restaurants, but not the same quality as TW.
• Train station isn’t in the middle of town, so always a walk one way or another
• Mostly private schools (although this might be a pro, depending on your worldview!)
• State secondary school rated good (not outstanding), 58% of pupils scoring 5 x A*-C

Price-wise: I sold my tiny two-up-two-down terraced half house in Honor Oak for £640K and for less than £900K I bought a 4 bedroom detached house with a large garden in Tunbridge Wells, 0.2 miles from an outstanding primary, 0.5 miles to the train station and 0.5 miles to open countryside.

Hopefully less commuters means more money being spent locally. I read in the financial times this week that there’s been an increase in independent shops doing well, and that we’ve passed peak Pret. I’m hoping hubs like Forest Hill thrive and give more reason to stay personally, but if I was to move … maybe somewhere like Winchester

Couldn’t help myself…

The only other ‘con’ (perhaps pun intended) is the season ticket costs £5,000 a year. Given we’re all working from home these days and probably going forward 1-2 days a week at the office, that’s no longer such a big deal. Agreed on the schools, if you wanted a grammar school instead of a London public school you can offset the £5k against saving on school fees.

Funnily enough this thread came up originally as I was browsing how many acres of New Forest I could sell my SE23 house for… I’m so tempted but every time we leave London for a couple of days we get bored and invariably look forward to coming back. For now I’m sticking to exploratory trips out of town but if I could work from home with the occasional business trip then the New Forest really is as close to Heathrow time wise as South East London

I used to live in the New Forest and hope to move back there. If you’re serious about this, then check out the Local Development Plans first. Since the truly appalling decision to make the New Forest a National Park Commoners have been priced out. Last year I read that you would need an income of 100K pa in order to afford the rent on a small house with Common Rights. Without people working and earning their living from commoning the Forest as we know it will cease to exist.

The Local Plans will see a huge amount of development around the borders of the Forest, with some further development in designated villages. Eg a 1600+ home development planned for the former Fawley power station site, at the end of ehat is known as the “longest cul-de-sac in England”.

Public transport is of course virtually non existent.

Good point. I’ve updated my post.

For those who can WFH, not so much of an issue. Let’s hope companies continue to offer this as an option, post-Covid.

Some other towns worth considering: Oxted, Hitchin, Berkhamsted, Tonbridge, Bishops Stortford.

Your mileage may vary though - I compiled my shortlist based on travel times to my relations etc.

Screenshot from 2020-09-02 16-47-442410×1260 746 KB

Meanwhile if anyone wants to work from home, here in airy upper Sydenham, they could buy our house.

Screenshot_20200902-170112_Firefox1080×2280 608 KB

obviously using some kind of inverted-u shaped curve for scoring

With regards to the poll [Poll] Are you thinking of leaving SE23? I put ‘Other’ because I’m both happy here and vaguely considering moving. In an ideal world I’d have a flat in London perhaps more central and a nice house somewhere out of town. Can we add an option for ‘fantasising about both’

U curve for ‘proximity to mother in law’?

But seriously, top marks for data driven decision making and the spreadsheet. That’s next level.

Yeah - you’ve really excelled there @anon5422159!

I was planning on moving house before COVID. I wanted an extra room and a bit of outside space but was still planning on being in SE London as I needed to be in Victoria most days - and wanted to stay in cycling distance and with a relatively short commute.

Now, it’s likely that I’ll only be in the office 2-3 times a month so I’m thinking of moving further out and getting something with more room and a bigger garden once that’s confirmed. I’m a keen sailor so I’m thinking somewhere in Hampshire that puts me closer to the Solent but not too far from London/Bracknell/Heathrow.

I worked in Tunbridge Wells for a while, although I didn’t live there – beautiful with plenty to do, and my friends who live there seem to have a great quality of life.

Cons in terms of the commute, aside from the expense.

Stating the obvious, if you’ll be relying on public transport, make sure the timetable suits your working schedule.

Likewise, bear in mind that things don’t always run smoothly and reliably, and that there won’t necessarily be alternatives, such as a bus to hop on if the trains are playing up. (Even rail replacement buses can be a nightmare.)

Also, even if things are going as planned, that extra commute can get taxing over time, if you have to do it regularly. If your job already involves long days, the couple of hours it takes to get back home can really take it out of you and leave you with little or no time for a social life.

I’d also add that I was travelling out of town during the morning rush hour and towards town in the evening, so at least I was pretty much guaranteed a seat and a fairly peaceful journey each way. May not be the case if you’re doing the opposite.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

Some trains/commutes from these commuter towns make the tube look easy. Looks like Tunbridge is the first stop on the line though so you’d get a seat.

There are quiet parts of SE23 and there are others that are next to a busy main line. It’s the same thing in the countryside, you have to do your due diligence.

People leaving London in their 30s has been a trend since forever. It’s not natural to live so close to other people. Or maybe that’s me. I grew up in a country where “terraced” or “semi detached” weren’t even in the vocabulary

I didn’t take part in the Poll because my husband and I had always planned to move back to the New Forest once he retired and we no longer had to be where the work was. So it’s a long planned thing and nothing to do with Covid. My family and many of my friends are there. Himself wants a workshop for his Land Rover and I want a dog and the sea.

The second home brigade have sadly hit hard in the New Forest and surrounding area, prices are astronomic and local people forced out. Second homes are a problem in Lewisham too of course (or maybe even three homes in the case of one Councillor). it would solve our housing crisis overnight if people could only have one home and revitalise many of our villages if people saw them as their their full-time homes.

Its not just Covid forcing people to make a decision - Brexit is extremely high on my list of concerns (and Forest Hill was noticeably less polluted for the first few weeks of lockdown - proving how polluted it normally is!)

I dont understand why Brexit, but I do of course see what you mean about pollution. The countryside isn’t free from that of course, but if you’ve got the cash you’ve more chance of getting away from it. Lyndhurst high street seems worse than Oxford Street for air quality, especially in the summer. There has been talk of a bypass as long as I can remember, but if course there’s nowhere to put it that won’t upset some landowner in one direction or damage the forest in another! It’s been especially crowded this year.

Every house I’ve seen that I’ve liked has had a septic tank and mains drainage is a must for me!

All I mean is: the other man’s grass and all that …

Sydenham and Forest Hill have a huge amount going for them and life in the countryside isn’t necessarily what you might expect.

On the ‘B’ word, can we keep it to it being a reason to stay or go (as you carefully did) without going into pros and cons and starting a political debate please.

My advice would be to make sure that wherever you decide to move to is where you really want to be. Some friends of mine moved of FH out a few years ago and would now like to move back to London but the sale proceeds of their 4 bedroom detached house wouldn’t buy a 1 bedroom flat in FH.

Sadly for the people who can only just afford a 1 bed flat in FH the only choice is out of FH to get more space (and London if want somewhere safe)

Funnily enough @clausy my point about Brexit wasn’t political (though I could moan about that for days) - it was more this is the last chance because most people simply won’t get a working visa

Yes I know! It was just a pre-emptive comment in general. Hence my ‘as you did’ remark

Reading through everyone’s thoughtful replies it’s clear that I haven’t explained the situation clearly. The plan isn’t to commute to London on a daily basis. I’m self-employed and would drive to one of the large housing sites along the M25 corridor for work. The possibility of having to go into central London on the train would only be if any of Kent’s large brickwork contractors didn’t have any work for me, hence the comment on having to work on the big concrete frames. Hope that clears it all up. Besides that, I just can’t decide on Sevenoaks or Tunbridge Wells.

If London trains aren’t an issue for you, then RTW is definitely a better choice than Sevenoaks. I love it here, especially now I can WFH.

Let me know if you do move here, and we can grab a pint sometime