Dear all
Having lost my job during C-19 this presents me with an opportunity to escape the corporate rat race.
Am planning on putting a proposal together for a greengrocers business.
Would you visit an additional one in the area? What would attract you?
Thanks
I’m shielding, so at the moment I’m reliant on deliveries. That isn’t my usual way of shopping, as I prefer to choose my own. I like shopping seasonally. I’d be really attracted to Kent fruit and veg and honey. It’s surprising how difficult it is to get good quality Kent cherries and strawberries in season and Victoria plums. I don’t buy strawberries in the winter, but I do go for more imported things like lemons and oranges. And I do have a weakness for those huge pink French shallots that have such a short season. I suppose I think of foreign fruit and veg as an occasional treat, when I can’t get UK produce. I never buy foreign asparagus, but I do buy the odd avocado and try not to feel guilty about it.
There are only the two of us at home though, so I’m aware we might not be your biggest shoppers.
Apart from the regular fruit n veg stuff it would be great to have Asian veg plus bunches of herbs (coriander with root on!), Thai basil etc etc plus you could oils and bread but it may start treading on established toes!
I still miss the greengrocer in nunhead, they used to add up the cost in pencil on the bag like in the ‘olden days’…
So yeah as long as the basics were mixed with more exotic stuff would make me a twice a week minimum customer for sure.
I would love to see “wonky” veg and local produce. So much gets flown in and food waste from UK farmers is disgusting and very sad. I currently use “odd box” for this reason as it helps me cut down on food waste. Also sustainable packaging/ no plastic. I appreciate that something’s require plastic but maybe a reduction in that. Also really like the zero waste movement where by in some shops you can bring containers and fill it with things like flour/pasta/rice/pulses/nuts etc. Perhaps something like that. I don’t believe there is anything like that closer than Clapham which is where I’ve been in the past but since moving into forest hill/carried I’m yet to find one.
Also. I try very hard not to buy too often from big supermarkets so if I could buy my weekly veg (maybe more) from your store you’d see a regular and loyal customer in me.
There’s Beetroot and Beans in Dartmouth Road which ticks a lot of your boxes.
I’m sure they’ll be along to say hi here soon!
I like the idea of recipe card ideas. I suppose it also depends on your proposed location - Anotherjohn may be able to offer you advice. Beetroot and Beans is on Dartmouth Road and the new Marvellous Beans and Greens is on Brockley Rise.
Good bread. The Butchers and Agas have some but it gets sold out quickly.
May be some decent deli items like salads, dips and pastries.
Few bottles of wine, dried pasta, nice pasta sauce and olive oil. People can come for vegetables, but take the constituents of a meal. Also, the listed items don’t expire, so you won’t have to worry about food expiring for everything that you offer.
I’d also suggest that you sell locally roasted coffee beans, such as mont 58, even if at cost price to generate footfall.
For several years I’ve been getting most of my fruit and veg from Lewisham market. Since “lockdown” I’ve been trying to shop locally in Sainsbury’s and the Co-op but haven’t been very impressed with their offerings and especially their prices. So I’d want a new greengrocer that can offer a wide selection of items at good prices.
I suppose it depends on where you are. Forest Hill could benefit from a traditional green grocer selling veg at cheap prices. Kind of the type that I generally would visit a Turkish grocer for… such as buying 10 kilos of tomatoes and getting change for a tenner.
Beetroot & Beans satisfies my need for high quality, organic and specialist fruit and veg.
At the moment I get my vegetables from Sainsbury, Provender and Marvellous Green. Provender has really stepped up since the lockdown and I try to support them as much as I can.
Some organic bagged salads or salad leafs and greens in boxes like they used to do do at the farmers market so we can create our own mix and buy as much or as little as we want.
sprouting ‘stuff’ broccoli sprouts,raddish sprouts,mixed bean and lentil sprouts I have to go to SMBS on Lordship Lane for these.
Also as previously mentioned it would be great to have some packaged fresh dips and perhaps some more interesting fresh bread options.
For me, something ‘the wrong side of the tracks’ for Forest Hill would be fab. With the new hotel being built we’ve lost the Co-Op and as much as their new store is still nearish, it’s not convenient for a lot of people who head down Perry Vale on their walk home from the station. The old Waterfords’ greengrocer could have been so good. That would be an idea spot.
Fresh seasonal FRV would be amazing. Also some essential provisions too; eggs, bread, coffee beans, milk would be very handy. And if you can stretch to something to make a quick evening meal even better.
Good luck. 
I would suggest that as Waters greengrocer & fishmongers failed the position of the shop must have been a contributing factor.
I went a few times. They never had stock, didn’t really invest in the shop and were always about to improve it but it never came. Was such a shame. I stopped going after a while as it was very hit and miss.
I’m sure the location played a part, but there were a couple of other issues cited at the time as I recall - firstly that prices were a bit high, and secondly that hours were somewhat erratic.
As others have said, the stock selection there was poor and expensive and it opened at random times.
A combo greengrocers and fishmongers was never a goer in my book- the smell of the fish was so off-putting to buying veg!
Marvellous Greens and Beans sell bread and take out coffee. There can’t be much of a profit on veg so you need something else as suggested above. I liked Waters but agree the stock was very variable quality and yes you need consistent opening times.
I’d love a basic fruit and veg shop but I dont think the finances work which is why there really aren’t that many. The margins on your basic stuff are far too slim to make a living. So there has to be an angle or selling point or combination. Being a grower my needs are limited but a grocer combined with a bag your own (pulses, flour, beans - any loose items really would get me in the door…
It would be nice to get Northern European dry goods and fresh german bread. I alone would keep you in business
Hello, Just a good old traditional greengrocers would be good, Personally i think a lot of the Newer trendy shops cover the out of the ordinary requirements of the new trendy’s we have in the area now .
Just my thoughts .
I agree but I think there is a reason why we dont see them opening. There is no money to be made or at least there isn’t a living to be made. I was speaking to a local shop keeper who also sells a little veg on the side and he laughed when I said he should get a greengrocers going too. He said that he made a few pennies on the veg and it was just there to get people through the door. Basically he said if you own your own shop then it might be doable but if not you would struggle to make the rent.
Hence the “trendy” approach or angle - you need to generate sales so sourdough breads and artisan coffee are punted to get folks through the door.
Might you I love sourdough and coffee so I’m fine with “trendy” whatever that means…
I do love the idea of recipe bags and kits, but in a one person size. Eg a bag with all the necessaries for a one person stir fry, including a little sachet of the right sort of herbs and spices. Not those horrid bags you get in Sainsbury that are bulked out with stringy and tough things.
Soup kits would be great too.
When you see convenience stores selling veg outside from plastics bowls, it is generally a third party providing the service.
It wasn’t that sort of shop but I take your point in they are probably not getting the best price they can wholesale as it isn’t their main trade. However the lack of “traditional” fruit and veg shops seems to indicate that they would struggle to make a living paying London rates and rent. I’d love to see something like Staines Farm Shop in Whitstable which I can’t walk past without venturing inside…
I miss very much the best greengrocers in London, Newington Green Fruit and Veg, which has every kind of fruit and veg you could possibly want. Anyone wanting to open a greengrocers should check out their winning formula on Newington Green N16.
I think that for these boutique food outlets/veg in a brown paper bag or any other independent outlet on the high street to survive there’d have to be a complete national reset on how people in this country view food. I’m continually amazed at how many people - especially in London - can’t boil an egg. On the continent they have more of an appreciation for cooking, how food is prepared, sourced (such as hunting) and recipes and techniques passed down through the generations. From what I can see that simply doesn’t exist on a scale large enough to support shops like the ones under discussion.
Here’s an example: Of all the celebrity chefs, I think Raymond Blanc is possibly the only chef that’s touched upon alternative sources for herbs besides those found in the supermarket. I know comparing the French countryside to that of Forest Hill is a bit of a stretch in terms of looking for healthy wild garlic, etc, but it betrays a completely different mindset than you get over here. The likes of Jamie Oliver seem to automatically direct their viewers towards the supermarkets, although I’m guessing backstage sponsorship deals between supermarkets and TV networks are responsible for that.
Hugh Furley Whatshisname is pretty good as well.
Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall?
Second that. Newington Green greengrocers is brilliant!
More of a farm shop poster boy if you ask me. What sort of chef - celebrity or otherwise - caves to anti hunting groups?
A good one hopefully. But then I just finished eating a locally shot venison burger so I am somewhat biased.
Tastes much better than the farmed game you get in the supermarkets. I went bow hunting in the States when I was working there and deer taste a lot different when they’ve succumbed to massive blood loss as opposed to the shock of a bullet which floods the body with adrenaline.
Not sure about that. This was a head shot, the deer died instantly so no adrenaline.
Herb pots for the windowsill would be nice.
But I realize none of my suggestions is enough to make a living from.
Many thanks for all the responses!
Someone above referred to shopping patterns which I think is really relevant. In this lockdown period I am increasingly reluctant to do a big shop. Partly the faff but also it’s a bit soul destroying with messy/empty expanses of shelves. I feel I’m buying not shopping. I don’t want to linger. Hence enjoying the Marvellous Greens and Beans to shop - see what’s on offer and chat to the lovely staff. I’m lucky to be retired so post this awfulness I’ll still have choices to make but when lots of people are back on their hamster wheels will they?
Having just discovered beetroot and beans and having had deliveries from them during this time I’m not 100% feeling the need for another veg shop but who knows, maybe it would just mean I ate twice as much fruit and veg! To be honest What I’d really like is a fish shop but I appreciate if your interest is veggies then fish isn’t going to be your thing. And the last fish ship we had here didn’t do very well, although to be honest that’s because it wasn’t open reliably so you couldn’t count on it!!
But whatever you do, I hope it works out. Sounds like you’re making a positive out of a difficult situation.