Where to in SE23?

I am new to this forum and apologise if this is a topic that has been discussed elsewhere in another thread, but I could not find any recent discussions.

We are a young family considering a move to SE23, but are completely unfamiliar with the area, have not (yet) ventured further than the Horniman and are looking for recommendations, ideas and generally tips on what to consider when choosing a spot in SE23. Schools of course is a consideration, but at this point it would be great to start by just getting a sense of vibe and community spirit - how is Perry Vale different to Honour Oak?

There seems to be less going on on the Perry Vale side, but then we see streets with pretty hefty house prices which seemed surprising. Does Perry Vale have more to offer than meets the eye?

Any thoughts and suggestions very much appreciated.

Thank you.

Hi @SoSofia and welcome to the forum. We have a couple of topics that will hopefully be useful to you:

• Where to live in Forest Hill/Honor Oak? [2017-18]
• Information for New Residents

I may be bias as live in Honor Oak but I think it has nicer atmosphere. It has its own really nice little shopping street ( if it survives lockdown that is)( village sized!) with good mix of small shops and a relaxed quiet atmosphere. Has great service from Honor Oak station, has the view up to One tree hill woods and the walks there and Blythe Hill and Ladywell Fields other nice parks close by.

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Hi Sofia.

We live on the Perry Vale side near Kilmorie Primary. Bought our place about 4/5 years ago. I think both options are good. We have two young children with plenty to do near us.

HOP has a lovely village feel, great shops etc. But Perry Vale side also has a lot to offer. We’re about a 10 min walk from the fab Mayow Park, similar distance to Forest Hill with the lovely Dartmouth road and all its shops. We tend to on some days go up to HOP and other days to Forest Hill. It gives us the variety we need. There is a good sense of community too within the area.

We commute from Forest Hill in the morning (easier getting on in normal times) and get off at HOP in the eve.

Happy if you want to PM me some further Qs.

Hi Sofia

I’ve put my views in the comments @anon5422159 usefully linked to, but if you have any questions me and others would be happy to answer I’m sure!

The good news is whichever bit of SE23 people live in, generally people like the area. I’d agree with other posters that there is a nice community spirit in SE23, each area has some slight positives over the other - with young children (unless you are sending them privately) then school catchment areas (which change it year) can be small (a few hundred minutes for some) so this should be fairly high up on your area search.

We moved to Forest Hill from Peckham 5 years ago and never regretted it.

It is friendly, better housing stock, nice and green, good transport links.

The shopping and nightlife could be better but that is improving and there is plenty not far away.

The south circular is a big downside as I feel it really ruins the high street and prevents it from developing in to something nicer.

The hills are a challenge at first but you will develop strong legs and cardio fitness in no time!

Thanks all for the helpful comments and Pea thanks for the offer I will DM you.

And Hannah, yes the South Circular is a concern, the property we are considering is south of this, near the Perry Rise Baptist church and while the street is beautiful I feel like there is not much in terms of cafés and shops within walking distance. So am wondering wether coming from near Lordship lane area in SE22 and being used to walking around the corner to find great restaurants, bakeries and a buzzing vibe we will end up having to use the car everywhere we go and perhaps therefore should be focusing our search north of the South Circular and nearer the Honour Oak area…

Would love to hear from anyone in the Perry Vale area and their views. Equally anyone who has moved from SE22 area and faced the same dilemma would be much appreciated. Upgrading in terms of space & garden has become impossible with ED prices and SE23 it seems has lots to offer, but it is just so difficult to get a feel for community and street vibe without living there. We are just a bit nervous about potentially moving to an area which is nice in terms of housing, but not much else going on within walking distance. So was hoping I could be convinced otherwise and proven wrong by local opinions!

Thanks again all, much appreciate your input!

Why would you have to use the car more?
Lordship Lane is a 40 min walk away or about 15.mins on the 185 or 176 buses. We live near the Horniman and walk down to Lordship Lane a lot.

Yes, I suppose near the Horniman would be a closer walk to LL, Perry Vale being on the other side of FH station is probably another 25min further away, but yes will be taking a closer look at transport/bus connections. Ideally though I like staying and shopping local so am trying to find out if there is enough going on there so we don’t have to heavily rely on amenities further away for daily shops and walks…

The main buses are the 185, 176 and 197.

Forest Hill is less buzzy than E Dulwich and Peckham, that is why it is cheaper!

If you live the other side of the station you are not far from Honor Oak and Brockley that have a number of decent shops and cafes.

I would use a daily walk to come up here and have an explore.

I may be a bit bias here having lived in the Perry Vale area of Forest Hill for 12 years. I moved from the Forest Hill Road/Honor Oak Park area after living there for 2 years. I don’t regret my move. I’m perfectly placed for Sydenham, Forest Hill, Honor Oak Park, and Catford. Also Crystal Palace and Dulwich are only moments away by bus, or if I’m feeling particularly fit, I walk.

You are moments away from the gorgeous Mayow Park, which has the Brown & Green cafe (they do the best food) where you can sit in or takeaway to eat in the park. It has a playing area, an outdoor gym, tennis courts, cricket, the community gardens and events during the summer.

You can also wander up to Sydenham which has a lot of nice cafes and pubs, also fantastic independent shops. You also have the benefit of being near Catford, which also has some nice shops, cafes etc. Also if the Forest Hill train line isn’t running you have the alternative of getting a train to Catford and walking home.

I could write a novel of the benefits of living in this end of Forest Hill. My advice is to wander around and discover the joys on the area.

Good luck with your house hunting!

While living by the South Circular may not be attractive living near it can bring some advantages. I live on the Perry Vale side. My walk to Dartmouth/London Road is between 5 and 10 minutes (quicker on the way back) and I generally find all I need there including boutiques, specialist food, a great florists and a great variety of place to drink and eat.

It doesn’t quite match the East Dulwich section of Lordship Lane but if I need more that is a quick 10-20 bus journey from a stop a three minute walk away. For cheaper fare like what youd find in Peckham proper Catford is the same distance in the opposite direction.

I just wanted to add that the only reason I moved away from the Honor Oak Park end of Forest Hill was because the flat I was living in was dreadful. I moved to Perry Vale because I was able to buy a bigger flat, with a garden for less than the pokey little flat I had.

We moved from Peckham to Perry Vale side 4 years ago.

It was a great move.

Ultimately you can’t have the hustle and bustle of Lordship Lane or Peckham without paying for it (if you want a family house with a garden- we were lucky to… but still moved as we wanted more green space and connections to other places). Not to go all "Kirsty and Phil"but you need to work out what you want - no one’s experiences are going to help you make a lifestyle choice; which is where your conundrum lies.

You can walk easily (I think people have a bit of a warped view of wanting everything within five minutes walk - use those legs that what there for!!) to Brockley, Honor Oak, Sydenham and Crystal Palace. You can also walk to Beckenham Place Park on the Waterlink Way in about 45mins from Perry Vale which is great for a morning or afternoon for a young family. Walking to Lordship Lane for an evening and visiting your old stomping ground will be pretty easy also.

Shopping wise you have everything that you need from the big to the small, from the dry cleaners to butchers and to the knitting shop.

We have great coffee shops. The only downside in FH is that it has not got a restaurant for special occasions (talking Kudu etc) that perhaps the ED or Peckham areas have, but the tide is certainly turning and what business we do have you can’t fault, many taking a gamble with the SC and succeeding.

Forest Hill has good local walks for a young family, so Sydenham Hill Woods (it has a bat sanctuary) Sydenham Wells Park (designed beautifully) and Crystal Palace Park. And post lockdown there are some great pubs, the Dartmouth,for example

We live just by Mayow Park (under rated, pretty, excellent cafe) so technically Perry Vale Ward. Both Sydenham and Forest Hill easily walkable - a third station, Lower Sydenham is only 15 minutes walk (for when Southern breaks down…).

Yes the South Circular does butcher the high street but with better town planning: a foot bridge a green roundabout for example, a maxed up congestion charge it would be much better, but oh no too much common sense for the mayor etc

Thanks - super helpful. And yes of course fully aware it won’t have all that Lordship Lane has to offer in terms of full on variety and it is a trade-off between than and value for money in terms of what you can get for a bigger space, but trying to gauge exactly as you say wether basics are within easy-ish walking distance of 10min or so, i.e. decent butcher, place to get good bread, perhaps a little deli and most importantly good coffee (pretty essential All the treat restaurants and bars of course we don’t expect on the doorstep.

We will be exploring the area, so - where would you head to for a decent coffee and a loaf of good bread if you set off from say the Perry Rise Baptist church? Would you be bound to head towards either Dartmouth Rd or over the SC towards Honour Oak or are there also hidden gems on the east side of the tracks and south of the SC?

We moved here from Balham. We used to live on the first road off of Balham High road. We had everything we could ever need and the station was a 3 min walk from closing the door.

We quickly adjusted to living here and now are glad of the slightly longer walks- we are a lot fitter plus you get so much more for your money. I’ve also benefitted from 2 maternity leaves treading the streets and finding the little gems.

If I lived by Perry Rise Baptist Church I’d walk to Mayow Park for a coffee on a summers day (or even winter- I’m there most days) and Number 41 if not. Both ten mins walk max.

Beetroot and beans is good for veg and other small bits. For Butchers we walk over Blythe Hill and go to The Proud Sow. It always feels like there is an adventure here and like others say we are surrounded by so many different areas to choose from. Catford. Honor oak. Crofton park. Forest Hill. Sydenham. Beckenham.

If you want a decent pub The Honor Oak is great as is The Chandos. On a nice day we walk to Dulwich or Peckham. We are about 3/4 min walk from your location.

Again DM me I’m sure I can help with more.

From Mayow Park you’re just a few minutes walk to Sydenham High Street, where you’ll find all the usual suspects. Boots, Superdrug, LDL, Tesco Express and Sainsbury. Cake Shop, Fresh and Fruity greengrocers, Billings Butcher/Fishmonger, loads of little shops and cafes. Dolphin and Greyhound pubs - one either end of the high street, both of which do nice food and the Dolphin has a lovely garden at the back. Gurkhas Nepalese and Trattoria Rafaelli restaurants (can’t spell sorry). Trat Raff has very good reviews. There is pretty much everything from Turkish and Polish supermarkets to a Chinese Medicine shop. There’s a gym at the Greyhound end next to Mama Dough and Nandos (I’d forgotten them!) And another planned to open at the Dolphin end.

There’s also that rare beast: a Post Office.

Further up the hill at the junction of Kirkdale/Dartmouth Road there’s the excellent Hibagon Sushi and Grill, several cafes, two pubs (hopefully soon to be three!) and little gem 161 Food+Drink.

Tucked away close to the junction, don’t miss Albion Millennium Green - a little hidden oasis.

You would head towards Dartmouth Road, as there are cafe’s there, and on London Road there’s a good butcher opposite Sainsbury’s. Andthe Horniman museum grounds have a farmer’s market on Saturday or Sunday.

And this thread demonstrates how there are so many options to choose from. Whilst not something 3 mins away lots just a short walk further.

we live quite near to the Baptist Church. From here I’d agree Mayow Park and its café are fab. Local shopping parade is ok for a pint of milk and newspapers. Very short walk to big shops at Bell Green for Sainsbury/B&Q/Aldi. There’s also a Tesco Metro 5 min walk away. An easy walk to Sydenham High Street across Mayow Park, particularly to go to the quite excellent Billings for fish or meat. Or the local brewery taproom, Ignition.

The Forest Hill Bistro and Café in the local parade has only just extended and reopened before lockdown, has a lot going for it. There is quite a choice of places for breakfast within say 12 min walk. Most people would agree that the local pizza restaurants are excellent - there are 3 I can think of within 15 min walk
Periodically we go to Lordship Lane for cinema etc - 356 bus to the Capitol pub, then change to a bus up Lordship Lane, really quick. Can also get to Peckham quite quickly without using the car.
Local decent pubs with gardens include All Inn One near Forest Hill station, or the Dolphin in Sydenham, opposite Raffaelos Italian restaurant mentioned above. The Sylvan Post in Dartmouth Road also has character, in a good way. Only a short distance to the highly acclaimed Blythe Hill Tavern too.

The local parade (which I am trying to rebrand, without any success at all, Perry Village) also has a very good GP, dentist and pharmacy.

I agree with previous comment, the choice of transport is spectacular, with Forest Hill 10 min), Catford and Catford Bridge (more like 20) all walking distance so if one isn’t working another usually is. Buses run to Forest hill/lordship lane, to Catford/Lewisham, to Sydenham/Croydon from outside the fish and chip shop, which is also good.
It seems from what I have written that I am a fan. But it depends what your priorities are.

We chose the hills of honor oak. Tough to get up and no shops or restaurants up here but… we get woken up by the sound of birds every morning (not necessarily happy about it at 4 am!) and don’t hear anything when we sit in our garden in the evening. So it’s a small piece of the countryside in the heart of forest hill and we love it! Anything we want is a quick walk or drive away and no one is polluting our air up here.

One point I would consider is (I think) that south of the South Circular we are not subject to the latest charge (ULEZ?). North of the South Circular there are likely to be either additional charges or possibly an extension of the congestion charge. I think someone said the Mayor would not be happy until the congestion charge was extended up to the South Circular.

Thank you all for the tip about the café in Mayow Park.

I live opposite the Horniman and walk easily to Goose green and back, and if you were tired or had a lot of shopping theres always the 185 or 176 bus.
You dont need to drive.
Personally I find Honor Oak offers less than Forest Hill.
from here you can walk to East Dulwich , Kirkdale, and Dartmouth road all have good independent shops and I also walk to Honor Oak from here, its only 15 mins.
Crystal Palace is nice for a change of scene with its excellent cinema cafes and the park.
Again its walkable or a short drive.
I moved here from Zone 1 in West London and to be frank I’ve not really missed much at all. Its easy to go out for drinks and meals in Peckham and jump on the overground and you’re in Shorditch in 20mins

Since coming to London I’ve lived in Sydenham and Forest Hill. Upper Sydenham and Forest Hill on the Dartmouth and Devonshire road side of the tracks is better in my opinion, but it is indeed hilly. Don’t do what I did and sell your car because for the weekly shop it’s easier with a car on account of how steep some of Forest Hill is.

Thanks again. After wrecking my brain on how to send a private message just found out (with relief that it is not due to my Tech incompetence) I can’t (yet) because I am not verified. Hopefully can tick that off on my exploration trip to Number 41!

Any feedback on the Kilmorie Primary would be great if you have any experience with it. I have a child in Y2 and one soon in Reception. Looking at their homeschooling resources they seem to be doing a fantastic job!

And your thoughts on adjusting to the change of having everything at your doorstep are reassuring. That for me at this point is one of the biggest concerns.

I’m afraid mine are at nursery so no personal experience of Kilmorie. However I see the families daily and it looks like the sort of school I’ll be happy my children attend in a couple of years. A number of friend’s kids go and are really happy with it. They also viewed Perrymount and Rathfern which again they regarded highly. I think you can’t really go wrong round here for primary schools.

Definitely PM me after you’ve had a lovely coffee from No41! Had a takeaway panini from there the other day. So good.

Yes, private messaging is reserved for more established members of the forum, which helps our members avoid getting messaged by spammers.

Getting your account verified will fast track this process, but this isn’t a necessity. if you participate positively in the forum for a little while, our software will automatically enable private messaging for you.

In the meantime I have created a PM thread that you and @pea can use

We bought a flat in Devonshire Road last year, and having previously lived in Edinburgh and Cardiff I can tell you SE23 is absolutely one of my favourite places I’ve ever lived.

Some people will argue between HOP and Forest Hill, but I’m exactly halfway between both so both high streets are exactly a ten minute walk from my front door.

Our flat is on the railway side of Devonshire Road, so in terms of positives: our (shared) garden is really large, and that garden then backs onto the nature reserve. Most days during lockdown I can sit in my garden and hear nothing but the birds and (sometimes ducks). I would imagine most of the buildings on this side of the road are similar given how large the nature reserve is.

The downside is sometimes people use Devonshire as a rat run but to be honest that doesn’t bother me too much, I only tend to use my car once a week to go to Bell Green Sainsbury’s or the cat’s annual vet checkup.

HOP is a nicer high street than FH (personal opinion): it’s more villagey and doesn’t have the south circ running through it and also has regular buses to Surrey Quays, Brixton and Lewisham with the buses to Aldwych at the end of the road. Some really nice little cafes and restaurants.

Forest Hill has more going on (WHSmith, Boots, Superdrug, more bars, bigger Sainsbury’s) but obviously there’s the traffic. And of course, both areas are on the East London line. And if you live in between both of them then you’ve got easy access to all of it.

I can’t speak to schools as I’ve got no children, but there’s a friendly family vibe around the whole area, the Horniman is a 10 minute walk from my front door, there are plenty nearby parks and outdoor spaces, well served for shopping, good transport links.

Honestly, one year in and despite the lockdown I wouldn’t swap SE23 for the world. Sometimes I sit in my garden and listen to the birds and it’s hard to imagine sometimes that I’m in inner London.

I used to work in schools. My personal opinion is that all the primary schools in our area are at least good. Some are exceptional/outstanding with brilliant dedicated headteachers.
I suggest that you visit the primary schools for a tour when it is possible.
I now have the choice to relocate if I want. My uncle and aunt live in a lovely Crnish village. But I prefer to stay in Forest Hill.

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Hello! Hope you don’t mind me contacting you. I actually have exactly the same query as you did about forest hill - specifically the perry vale area. We’ve seen a lovely property on Farren road but I can’t help but feel it’s about ‘out of it’. What did you decide to do in the end? Cheers!

We thought very hard about the SE23 option, but in the end decided to stay in SE22. The house we were considering was on Allenby Rd and was absolutely beautiful. Something similar in SE22 would be significantly out of our budget, which made this option so attractive, however on balance we decided location and convenience of access by foot to all that SE22 and Dulwich Village have to offer was more important to us. It is a very personal decision and will depend on what you value most, but for us it was the right call. We sometimes happen to drive through Forest Hill/Perry Vale occasionally and there are some lovely streets, but for us not being able to walk out of the house and be within a minute walk to all the shops and cafes etc was not something we could sacrifice for a bigger house and garden. Schools was another consideration. We did the write out pros and cons list and looking at it that way we realised the things we’d miss a nicer house wouldn’t be able to compensate for. But again a very personal choice, so not sure how much this helps. Best of luck with it all!

We live near the junction of Dartmouth Road and Kirkdale, just into SE26, and feel we have the best of both FH and Sydenham. Easy walk to both, and also to several parks. Good schools nearby. Lots of trees and (because it’s on Sydenham Hill) a feeling of fresh air and being above the fray. Nice cluster of shops and cafes in Kirkdale Village and five minutes to all the shops on Dartmouth Road and the FH Sainsbury’s. Good transport (quick walk to FH and Sydenham stations and on bus routes 176, 122, 185, 356). We moved from north London six years ago. Houses much cheaper here than SE22 (and certainly north London) so you get more room for your money.