Mayow Park ice cream van

Today the fumes from this van we’re particularity noticable in the playground at Mayow Park.

To me it seems totally incongruous to have a 1987 reg diesel continually running it’s engine down wind of a children’s playground and the fitness area.

We have signs asking people not to smoke near the playground, the ULEZ coming to the south circular, even a sugar tax… But presumably this thing has a licence from the borough to park in a lovely green space by the playground and run it’s engine all day long with fumes even visible from the exhaust.

To me it would make sense if an electric point could be installed there so the ice cream could be chilled without the diesel, but I’ve no idea how or who to suggest this to.

Any ideas?

There’s been a lot of discussion about this already on the Sydenham.org forum (Mayow Park is in SE26).

… but you are more than welcome to discuss it here too, @ForestHull

Is that Sydenham.org.uk you mean @RachaelDunlop ? A five minute search found various passing references to the Mayow ice cream van, but nothing specific to this issue… would you be able to link to some exact thread?

(Thank you @anon5422159)

Back in ancient history I had a holiday job with a nylon Yellowand Blue coat and a blue bike with a large box the bottom layer was dry ice and i sold lollies, tubs and family bricks managed around 6 hours before the danger of melt not sure of the polluting effect of the ice but certainly no other fumes!!

Bring back the Wall’s man

Is this the van in question?

Different reg so no.

I thought this a while back while pushing my baby past in his pram but the thought must have slipped my mind. It’s disgusting to walk past - I actually couldn’t get over the taste. It made me really angry.

Could he perhaps park on the street rather than in the park itself while someone pushes the council to install plugs for him to hook up to? I guess the flip side of this is it’s someone’s business that probably doesn’t make enough turnover to justify investing in a new van. However if the council could invest in plugs so he can still operate without the motor it would be better for all?

My mistake, it was the Friends of Mayow Park Facebook group. https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=59345532045&ref=content_filter&feed_ufi=comments

Of course! I didn’t mean to imply that it wasn’t a suitable topic for this forum as many of us use the park. Just that there might be useful information to be had on SE26 sites.

It’s very thoughtful of you to consider someone’s livelihood - but why should the council spend our money to help this guy! It’s for HIM to consider the childrens’ health and invest in whatever equipment he needs to operate his money-making machine in a child and park-goer friendly way.

By the way, an old friend of mine had a few ice cream vans; and you wouldn’t believe the pile of cash that he had to go through on a Monday morning after a sunny weekend.

If it is a money making machine then couldn’t agree more.

I would imagine there is a fee and licence for that ‘pitch’ and over the years the council has taken some income which ideally would have been used to improve the park.

Also let’s not forget the years before b&g opened - the ice cream van was perhaps the only amenity, and probably valued more than it is today. Attitudes and awareness have also changed more recently as childhood obesity becomes a serious problem.

While in an ideal world the ice cream man would look to improve his businesses environment impact, history shows that profits repeatedly trump morals and common sense and that is why we needed regulation (especially when it comes to diesel).

I feel a FOI to the council to get terms and licencing income for that pitch might be interesting. Then a follow up letter to suggest consideration of putting a plug in.

Please let us know if you manage to find out what the rent and terms are for that pitch.

According to posts on the Mayow Park FB page, the owner of the van has already spent money on retrofitting the van with components to reduce the emissions as much as is possible.

I have actually just put in a FOI to the Council, requesting to receive details on the licensing fees and terms, and to confirm whether any environmental or health assessment has been conducted as part of the licensing scheme. I’d be happy to update y’all once I hear back.

As far as I’m concerned, I’m not fundamentally against ice-cream vans, as such, but at the very least environmental and health considerations should be factored in to their licensing. After all, an ice-cream van is typically a private, profit-making business and a local park is a public good funded predominantly by taxpayers.

I wonder if (s)he did?

Someone asked him and he said yes. Reported in several of the threads on the topic on the Friends of Mayow Park FB page.

Thanks. That link may not work for people who aren’t Facebook members, or who aren’t members of that group on Facebook, so here’s the comment I think you’re referring to, for the benefit of others:

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Thanks, @Chris. There are other posts saying the same thing, most less grumpy than this one!

While a DPF will help (and indeed this vehicle has a solid MOT record), the best upgrade is surely to switch off and plug into a power point. Let’s face it a 1987 reg diesel is never going to be clean - it was built in a very different era e.g. 13 years before lead was banned from petrol in the UK!

I don’t see anything contentious about this other than who should pay for it. In my view it should be the council, but if this can’t be done I don’t agree that profits should be made from children while simultaneously polluting their play space. I do like ice cream though.

There’s another (at least I don’t think it’s the same) who often parks on the South Circular outside the Horniman. Given it’s a red route and it parks just over the top of the hill, I’m surprised that it’s allowed. But there’s often a queue so perhaps any fines are worth the risk.

What would the power point be powered by.

I think Darren is missing the point. Kids walk next to road, yes, where pollution might be expected. But in a park that’s supposedly closed to road vehicles, they can justly expect not to be treated to a fug of fumes while they’re playing. As a Mayow Park jogger, I run in the park to be able to breathe cleaner air.

A post was split to a new topic: Neighbour’s Ice Cream Van

Who did you contact at the Council prior to your FOI request? If you didn’t contact the relevant department first and then failed to receive a satisfactory response, then you cannot make a direct application to a FOI request.

I think it’s a good point that if people object to their child breathing pollution, they probably need to stop driving that child around. I read somewhere the exposure is 5 x higher in the back seat than stood beside the road (not this article but similar research reported).

Also, air pollution is a super localised issue. Standing a meter further away from the curb outdoors makes a significant difference. The back seat is in the middle of the road.

That’s a fair point. But tbh the last thing I want to taste or smell when I am in the park with my child is diesel fumes. I can’t stand the fact that van is situated so close to the kids play park, surely the park should be a relief from traffic fumes, not a reminder of the ongoing pollution we are subjected to. The van in Dulwich park is a plug in, why can’t the same be provided in Mayow Park? Oh let me guess, Dulwich park is in Southwark whereas we have to put up with the incompetency of Lewisham…

Couldn’t agree more. The taste is so strong when you go past it makes me feel sick thinking about it.

Was in Mayow Park today and very annoyed that the ice cream van is allowed to park so close to the playground and bench area spewing diesel fumes. I’ve seen it parked further beyond before and even that is beyond comprehension. People (adults and children) come to the park to enjoy fresh air. I’m absolutely gobsmacked that the council still allows this.

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Yep - it was unbelievable in 2018, and with the ULEZ extension and such, even more unbelievable now.

The ideal situation would be the installation of an electricity point so the diesel engine could be at least switched off. However, the permit for the van is / was only worth £1800 annually (or £150 per month, both ex VAT) when I last enquired, so I guess that doesn’t fund much development.

I’d recommend you share this with Ellie Reeves / local councillors.

I complained about it back in 2017 but nothing was done and I don’t remember seeing him last year.

It makes me SO angry whenever that van is there. It stinks. Like you say, you go for fresh air and get filled with a D reg diesel van fumes.

The park itself maybe in SE26 (Perry Vale) but it is bordered by SE23 streets as well as SE26 streets. There’s a lot of cross border activity between this site and SE26.Life, though SE23.Life has many more members than SE26.Life and as a result I post more on here than SE26.Life. (Not the old STF). I live in a similar political Puckoon as Mayow Park: SE26 and historically Sydenham, but in my case with the zigzagging of the political border I’ve been looped into Forest Hill electoral ward and Mayow Park into Perry Vale.

These ice cream vans are no respectors of borders or the environment. There is a particularly stinky one on the beach near my mum’s house.

Sadly you have to have a Facebook account to join that discussion and agree to all sorts of stuff just to view it. But at least it’s not a closed group, which some local groups are, so thanks for the link Rachael.

Post Scriot: Apologies. When I posted my replies I hadn’t notice this was an old thread. I can’t believe three years later our Councillors (all wards!) haven’t insisted on a plug in being installed. A group of plug ins could be used by more than one mobile facility at times (other catering outlets for events, bouncy castle etc).
@CllrLiamCurran @SophieDavis @CllrChrisBest @CllrAlanHall @CllrSakinaSheikh @CllrSophieMcGeevor can you help? Not an ice cream van ban, but install some power points in all our parks please.

Perhaps the Mayor’s Air Quality Fund could be used towards electricity points for ice cream vans:

That’s the same fund that supported the recent advertising campaigns such as this one:

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That picture is outside Stillness Junior & Infant school, SE23 by the way

I thought Stillness Road was one way - the other way!

I think they are going to need to install electric charging points as eventually all vehicles will be 100% electric.

Re-reading the topic, it seems there’s a split of opinions. How about an anonymous straw poll:

I’m wondering about the cost of installing an electricity point, which the public would probably bear. Wouldn’t a battery also be an option? How much current can a freezer and a Mr Whippy machine use in a day

Somthing along these lines…

So I sent a humdinger of an email to the Lewisham Mayor’s office asking if they would consider putting an end to idling ice cream vans and install electricity points in the parks so we can continue to enjoy ice cream without the pollution. Here’s the response:

You got there before me! Looks like me, you and Cllr Paschoud all raised this with the Mayor’s team and Glendale. Glad to see some bullish progress.

Thanks for this Leo. What should we do if we experience them idling in the future weeks of summer?

I also asked the Mayor’s office that and they said:

How much would it cost to provide a secure, lockable electricity point?
If the cost runs into thousands, which, depending on the length of the run and related excavation, conduit and thickness of cabling is not out of the question, how long would it take for the council to recoup that expenditure by, for instance, a nominal increase in the annual rent?
Presumably, the supply would have to be metered and paid for by the ice cream seller?
Isn’t there any way the ice cream seller could operate ‘cleanly’ so that the council doesn’t have to put its hand in its pocket?
If the van was removed, how much revenue would the council lose?

We don’t know, but the Mayors office said they were getting quotes.

I know that since at least 2014 Mayow park has had an ice cream permit running, bringing the Council / Glendale £1,800 annually (the vendor also has to pay VAT on top).

I’d imagine so, though I’m no authority on this. Such arrangements are done for some market stalls already. Dulwich park also has electricity points for it’s ice cream vans so must operate some such scheme.

Possibly. But since at least 2017 and despite prior complaints, this has not happened. Other boroughs banned ice cream vans over pollution concerns back in 2019, see up thread: Mayow Park ice cream van - #29 by ForestHull

See above for the permit costs.

Wow!
That’s comprehensive! (or impressive at least)
Thank you