A better welcome to those passing through SE23

UPDATE: we’ve started this project! See: The Forest Hill Mural

I’m sure it has been discussed before, and has probably come up at Ward Assemblies as well (which I’ve never managed to attend), but wouldn’t it be great if we could communicate some more pride in our area to those who pass through regularly?

The new visitor signs by the station are very nice, and useful for those on foot, but we get many more visitors passing through each day by car. Wouldn’t it be great to have something like they did at Herne Hill at our own, rather unloved, underpass?

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More photos here:

That looks fantastic! We have the perfect place for it too. With all the commissioned street art popping up, it would make a nice and welcoming gesture for sure.

I’m hoping that Brazilian street artists might have a go at the railway bridge with the help of the Horniman Museum. But it is a difficult site to make nice and not ideally suited to street art.

Ha. Herne Hill also had those fantastic banners all over the place. Ironic then they were created by Places in Print in Havelock Walk.

I propose we paint something onto this wall. like a huge colorful “welcome to forest hill sign”. just to make the area look more welcoming you know.

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Luke from the Horniman popped in today & so far confirmed Brazilian street art (via the Horniman) will be on the station piano, on the white building on D Rd next to the Sylvan - they have a meeting soon with TFL to discuss options, possibly on the underpass.

It would be brilliant if “Place In Print” could be commissioned to do this for FH under the railway bridge. I know them so happy to ask for costings of this & a small discount because they love FH.

@Michael do you know who we would need to get permission from to do this? Lewisham Council probably, possibly TFL.

If this would be possible & doable we could either apply for funding (regeneration of High Streets) or fundraise ourselves if the costs were not crazy!

Ahh @Mr_Robin_Banks I agree, but FHTA tried to get permission to paint our map (same as in our “welcome to Forest Hill” signage) on this wall, but the owner of the actual building didn’t grant us permission in the end. So sadly I doubt this would happen.

ah never mind, i thought it would be the perfect place to have bright colorful welcome. You would think the owner of the building would want to help make the area look nicer, do you know why the owner of the building didn’t grant permission @Pauline?

No @Mr_Robin_Banks as far as I know there was no explanation. Such a shame as this is a prime eye catching space when commuters exit the station & the first view of FH for visitors!

@Pauline Yes I agree, very eye catching for those coming out of the station. It would definitely portray a friendly welcoming community. shame

Agree, Bed for me. Will look in the morning xxx

Indeed, just a little touch can make a huge difference.

How about something like this (with a Welcome to FH message alongside) under the bridge on the South Circular?

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Perfect lol

There have been some great ideas over the years inc the murals both sides of the rail bridge on Kilburn High Road.

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We’d certainly be happy to help out with a set of FH banners if it was still of interest. At Herne Hill (and more recently London Bridge), it was a mixture of TfL and local authority permissions required. We worked with a company that specialised in banner printing, lamppost surveying and installation who handled that side of things while we focussed on the designs.

Am sure we could figure out some SE23 mates’ rates!

Ed / Place in Print

Great, thanks Ed

Could you give a rough estimate of how much something like this would cost?

I’ve got details of who I think we would need to contact at TFL & there’s a couple of people on here who will know who to contact at Lewisham council to get permission if we can secure funding

You could also consider contacting an artist who specialises in sign writing. Lionel Stanhope is a great local example:

Would you be able to get a quote on this too Brett?

Was thinking along similar lines… and guess what:

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No sorry, but you could ask him yourself:
https://twitter.com/lionel_stanhope

He has even retweeted you having an interest in this…

ETA, posts crossed, this to @Pauline

Am sure Lionel could do something amazing there. Tim aka bambopink also did something very cute in Ladywell, a riff on the SE13 postcode using hands. Sorry no picture to hand but it is round the corner from the P4 bus stop there.

Cheers Brett, I’ve just tweeted him

Great he’s got back to me with his email, I’ll drop him a line in a bit & Cc @anon5422159

I’ve just emailed Lionel & Cc’d @anon5422159 & @Michael thanks @Brett

This is the piece I referred to by bambopink:

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He also did the hand at Babur To Go:

Also the mural on the hoardings at Crofton Park, since damaged by joyriders last night.

These look great, especially the hand Although I don’t like your last sentence, why do idiots have to do senseless things like this!

I agree though I don’t think they intended to damage the artwork per se. A bus stop was broken in the process too!

Okay, this was all very quick work so thanks again Brett

Lionel has now got back with costings & a direct contact at Network Rail who secured a couple of other bridges locally, so on that front we just need a direct contact at Lewisham Council to ask both parties for permission to commission the artwork @CllrPaulUpex @MajaHilton could you give us a direct contact at LC that deals with this.

I think the cost is very reasonable as it includes all preparations etc too - if we were to go for something similar to the “Herne Hill” signage the overall costs would be around £2750 - we could apply for up to £2500 local assembly funding (it’s decided by a show of hands of local residents that attend what projects get funding, so I’m sure we can manage to all make the meeting) maybe we could apply for this via se23.life if @anon5422159 is happy with this. And I’m pretty sure we’ll find the rest easily!

First things first - Do we discuss this at the next “meet up” on 30th June (personally I think this is best) or arrange a separate meeting specifically for this?

The first step would be applying for permission, then applying for funding.

If anyone can add anything else to get the ball rolling quickly please do & lets get cracking on with this

Pauline you are a whirlwind organiser! Well done on getting the ball rolling so quickly, and it’s good to know Lionel is interested, and others.

I’m of course happy for SE23.life to be associated with the project. Although my time is consumed during the day with my day job I’ll be happy to attend any meetings on evenings or weekends. The June SE23.life meetup is an ideal opportunity to get our heads together, and discuss the design and funding aspects.

If we find that the Local Assembly funding isn’t available I’d suggest a Kickstarter (or even better, Indiegogo, which has more of an arty, boho vibe). I’d be happy to make a sizable personal contribution in this case, particularly as the SE23.life commercial model is looking like it might just work…

Great to see so much enthusiasm!

I have to say that despite my role here, I would personally suggest this project would be better run through a charitable / local body like the Forest Hill Society than a ‘commercial’ SE23.LIFE.

I am quite certain this site could support it (promotionally, organisationally and possibly financially) but this sort of work will need wide local support and this is still a new and growing site. Would it not be better to allow that consultation to happen with a more objective voice? This would be particularly important when dealing with local assemblies (I think the bridge divides at least two wards) and Lewisham Council.

Maybe @Michael has a view on this? I wonder whether he can make the discussion on the 30th?

Either way, it is great to see something that has been discussed for many years take a sudden leap forward towards reality and I’m happy to help if I can.

@thirstforwine may have a point here - and I haven’t yet had the chance to chat in person to @Michael so I don’t want to get ahead of myself. But I am happy to help with promotion, discussion and fundraising in any case.

More than happy to fund part of this as well.

Sadly I can’t make 30th June but would be happy to chat about this or other projects that I can help with. Great start on this forum with this project.

Great input @Michael @anon5422159 @thirstforwine @Londondrz

Myself, Michael & Chris are in email contact about this, happy to add you two guys to the email if no one minds & drops me their email addresses to hit heads on ideas.

I’m a big fan of joint local projects as it gets more people involved in and working together in our community.

I think this could work in a lot of ways and just off the top of my head here’s a couple of examples:

FH Soc are working with local residents & se23.life to bring … to Forest Hill with the support of … (LC, Network Rail)

Local residents with the support of FH Soc & se23.life are working in conjunction with … to bring new street art to our community

This community art project is brought to you by…

FHTA might also be able to get involved in this, but I’ll have to chat to the rest of the exec first.

Personally I don’t think it matters who goes for assembly funding if you are passionate about the project & it benefits the community.

I have maximum funding (£2500) in place for FHFW this year which means I can bring the brochure back that I wasn’t able to do last year & we got a full house of hands at the assembly meeting which I honestly didn’t expect. @JohnRussell & Donald done the presentation with me, must say couldn’t have done it without them both!

@Michael & @anon5422159 Eddie has emailed me this morning with his number So everyone else knows what I’m talking about, this is the contact at Network Rail!

ETA I’ll call him this afternoon.

Latest update on this!

I’ve spoken with Ed, the contact at Network Rail & he doesn’t think there will be a problem getting permission

I’m meeting him next Monday (13th) afternoon where he’ll take lots of pics of the bridge/wall etc. These will then be looked at in detail by the appropriate people & fingers crossed we’ll be granted permission from them

We now need to get the ball rolling with getting permission from Lewisham Council, @Michael any ideas on this or @MajaHilton & @CllrPaulUpex

I’m getting really excited about this now!

Ideas travel fast…

Good luck to them, lets us just concentrate on ours

I’m a very vocal person & know we can do this!

There’s no stopping us!

Ha, this is my motto behind this forum hope others don’t mind x
,

Meeting time has now been confirmed!

3pm next Monday 13th if anyone wants to join me

Latest update!

I met with Ed (network rail) today and it’s all good news

All that’s needed for him is a risk assessment for when the painting is being done, but Lionel (artist) already has a template for other work being done in the Lewisham Borough which can just be adapted.

Now we need to get permission from LC, I’m happy to start digging around to find out who is the best contact for this, but if anyone knows please tell as it will save me a bit of legwork

Great news, though I suspect there’s a little more than that since as well as the artwork someone will have to fix the drainage and prepare the brickwork, no?

The gutters are in need of clearing out, and probably also replacement - lots of damp caused on the walls which would ruin the artwork

It would be possible to mount artwork to the walls but cleaning that whole area would make it reasonably attractive so a two for one. Costly though unless you are happy with e and my pressure washer.

There’s two options we will have permission for, the side with the metal fence with leaks etc, and the opposite side with not much wrong with it.

This is where we thought would work best when we looked today, thoughts everyone would be good

Yes, we could all pitch in to clean this area to make it viable at no extra cost. And YEP even end up with artwork on both sides

I suspect that you will need TfL permission as it’s on a red route. I’ll look up my old contacts.

The generic addresses are either LONDONSTREETS@tfl.gov.uk or enquiries@tfl.gov.uk. I have emailed you my contacts @Pauline

Got them, cheers Richard

Do you think we could persuade Sebastian roche to pay for a nice welcome to honor oak mural on the side of mamma dough rather than the current billboard?

@fran you could try. Last time I asked them about some artwork on the end elevation of their building they were not keen, didn’t think the freeholder would approve IIRC. I think the general attitude to public art is changing but some do just think of graffiti or just don’t even notice what is there and the positive effect it has. Worth another go I reckon.

The Hither Green sign/mural is finished.

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Lionel, I’ve spoke to @MajaHilton about the street art under the bridge in FH & we don’t need planning permission from LC, I’ll attend the next assembly meeting for Perry Vale ward to discuss this. I’ve met with Ed & all’s okay with Network Rail, so hopefully we can get on with it soon

Great news and thank you to all involved.

@Lionel - great work on the Hither Green mural. It’s just perfect, and I can’t wait for Forest Hill to have one of these. Thanks @Pauline and others for your efforts on making this happen.

I wonder if there is any way we can get someone to clean the brickwork before adding a mural. Soda blasting the brickwork would he fantastic.

Can someone please confirm which wall we are talking about. Earlier on whilst driving under the bridge I could not see the south wall and in my head that was the destination. It seems that the wall further away from FH station has a better view for the traffic.

If the north side is brightened up, then anyone walking on the other side (who is avoiding the underpass) will feel even worse as the contrast of colour v. pigeon dirt will be emphasised.

A local gang of residents cleaned the Hither Green mural site with stiff brushes and a pressure washer.
I popped down the day before and marked out my painting shape for them.

Maja, we have permission from Network Rail to paint either side of the wall under the bridge.

I own both a stiff brush and a pressure washer!

I’m in John, who else wants to join our gang to clean the wall when the time comes

Good stuff! Rather than cleaning the whole surface, perhaps we could be selective, as they were in this overpass on Edgware Road?

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Unleash your arty side @londondrz!

Wow that is stunning!

Okay I’ve got the application forms to apply for Perry Vale ward assembly funding for this now!

We can apply for up to £2500 but we need to move quick as the deadline for applications is 19th August.

I’m sure we can easily make up the other £250 to go ahead with this if we are successful.

So @anon5422159 & @Michael as we need to get our skates on with this what do we put the organisation down as for this project?

SE23.Life or Forest Hill Society?

FHTA are already going for funding for the bicycle equipment for both platforms at FH Station so we can’t apply for it as FHTA. I don’t know if FH Soc is applying for anything this round.

@Lionel if we are successful can we put the start date as within 1 month of receiving the funding & we’ll need a couple of sentences for this question “Outline the key risks associated with the project and how you will minimise their impact”

I don’t mind filling in the forms, submitting them & being a contact if need be. Chris & Michael shall we pick this up in an email to discuss more?

@John_Paschoud FYI

Thanks @Pauline - I’ve created a new opt-in category to discuss this further. You should see this in your category list.

Got it!

Cheers

Would be nice to see this happen this summer, certainly great to see some of the work appearing.

Just curious if there has been any progress?

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• @Pauline contacted the artist of the Hither Green mural, @Lionel, and he has kindly given us a quote (although that was some time ago now)
• Councillor @MajaHilton suggested planning permission wouldn’t be required from Lewisham Council
• We have permission from Network Rail to paint either side under the railway bridge.

The next step is raising the funds.

I think @Pauline and @Michael probably both have their hands full with the library at the moment. With Pauline’s help, I did start looking into applying for funding from the council for the mural last year. However, in order to bid for this, we need a DBS-regulated non-profit organisation, and SE23.life is owned by my company, which is a regular for-profit company.

So there are a couple of options available:

• we approach a local non-profit to apply for council funding (which would cover the majority of the cost)
• we use a crowd funder to raise the money.

If you would like to help make this happen, or are interested in finding out more, please “like” this post and I’ll give you access to the private category we set up here on SE23.life to discuss the details.

Got some suggestions & will post in half hour, just got to pop out quickly to see a man about a dog

Here’s a few suggestions for the non-profit group.

I’ve also found out groups can apply for more than one project through assembly funding, so won’t be an issue if any are applying for anything else

FHTA - I can run this past the other 5 exec members but sure it won’t be a problem as we all support anything that improves the community.

FH Society - @Michael

SEE3 - I can contact the appropriate peeps.

Yes we are busy with the library, but I’m still up for working on this

Sorry I didn’t suggest the library as a group for this, reasons being we are working on a lot at the moment. So all good

I think we would be more likely to get the funding from the Perry Vale Assembly rather than Forest Hill Assembly Ward, so would concentrate on that one - also happy to fill in the forms & get the dates for the next assembly funding meetings from @MayaOnyett & the team.

Also if we want to crowdfund to get this done sooner can I suggest using “Crowdfunder” as you still get the funds if you don’t reach your target - This is what we used for the Library Crowdfunder so that we didn’t lose any donations

Great stuff @Pauline - your local connections pay dividends for stuff like this. Cheers for keeping the momentum despite everything else you’re doing.

In my opinion this is the easiest and most cost effective way to improve the look of Forest Hill centre, excellent work @Pauline.

The street art looks fantastic in Honor Oak, Brockley and East Dulwich.

Give me a few days & I’ll check the next assembly funding meetiing dates & rreport back

No worries Chris xx

Not that I’m competitive or anything… but we can’t let Brockley beat us to it!

I am.competative when it comes to some things that are productive (oh and playing Monopoly) let’s get on with this

Is the aim to copy the design or come up with something different for forest hill?

I think either or would work Stefan, but the quotes I got were based on this design x

Ladywell agreed to fund a mural that is just metres outside the ward, so feel free to use the precedent at your Assembly. If it ever actually happens (not sure of processes/timeline, no co-ordinators’ meeting till next week) ours will be under the railway bridge in Elmira Street.

@valw53 - looks like Ladywell made it happen! Looks fantastic, in my opinion:

That Ladywell mural looks great.

Spotted this Catford-related Twitter thread the other day - Looks like they too are heading towards the Herne Hill / Hither Green station sign approach. I fear by the time we get round to a FH one, it will be a bit over-done…

Have to agree.
I did have an idea of a sponsored directional mural. Pointing to places of interest, but not sure anyone would care for that.

Could we not look into something different. Ages ago when this topic originally came up (possibly on the “other local forum” before this one existed) I gave the lovely LEYTON sign as an example. What about putting something similar at the entrance to Forest Hill Station and have it illuminated at night - would look terrific coming into FH down from the Horniman (google “Leyton sign” for images) or hopefully click on this link (where it’s the first photo in the gallery)… http://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/area-guides/leyton/living-in-leyton-area-guide-to-homes-schools-and-transport-a99006.html#gallery

Now that these retro signs are ten-a-penny, doing something different would be nice. I like the Leyton sign, but it is VERY of its time (now) and will date very quickly.

How about something like this…

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Or maybe like I said, a mural pointing the direction for POI’s Maybe local businesses paying a small amount to be part of the sign. I am sure someone with more creativity than me can work it.
Personally I think information would be more imaginative than a declaration of your location.

I guess the advantage Leyton had was a large council funded masterplan which paid for the sign. FYI the back of each letter is a bird box.

We do have a very nice mural/brick relief (not sure how to describe it) on the lower wall in front of The Signal pub. It depicts the history of Forest Hill - canal and pneumatic railway. If that was cleaned, repaired, and had some lighting … it would look great.

Unfortunately that area has become a rubbish pick-up point for commercial waste (NB fly-tipping police - black bags and other junk are regularly added to the pile of official bags) and waste cooking oil leaking from a drum that was left there presumably from one of the restaurants has made a mess of the pavement. Again, in my view, the Council not doing a wholehearted job, just get a sense of entropy about everything they attempt - whether regular services or projects.

Something on the Grafitti’d railway bridge would look great as people drive along the South Circular. Something similar to the “Camden Lock” sign.

The Bridge is a bad first impression for drivers from the East especially.

Crowd funding would surely be an option?

I think we need something a little different the the Catford Sign.

How about something like this…

The Austin example is pretty cool!

a mural pointing the direction for POI’s Maybe local businesses paying a small amount to be part of the sign.

Although a nice idea, assuming we are still talking about the under-bridge location, it really needs to be as simple as possible - I doubt walkers would be that keen on stopping to look at it, and don’t think we’d want to distract drivers too much!

I like @Herbert’s side of bridge idea, but presume there are more/tougher permission issues with that?

WELCOME TO FOREST HILL
Come back soon (without your car)

There are two sides to the bridge and I would suggest that Thirstforwine’s suggestion was great:

I’ll add to this a suggestion based on a sketch put together in 2014 by the same artist who brought us the Walrus , Aquarium, and Tyre Towers.

He did the sketch, I’ve amateurishly added some colour to bring it to life, but it is just a concept. I my view this would look great under the railway bridge or in the underpass:

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Based on a design by http://aeroarts.co.uk/

The theme is a surrealist view from the Horniman, with a train on a rollercoaster, a mobile phone, a giant gherkin, a cheesegrater, an electric razor, a catherine wheel, and a couple of cruiseliners passing by. It is just a concept of what we could do with the space.

Would there be any possibility of having the broken streetlight removed or repaired? It has been covered in electrical tape for about 3 years.

Haha, love it! Could commission a giant FH version of this…

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http://www.brilliantneon.co.uk/peckham/

I agree with many comments on this topic that Forest Hill should not look to create something that has been done a few times over by other areas. Then I saw this. A Forest Hill sign in this style would look amazing and have such a strong local connection

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agree FH2017 … something original would be much better.

I like it, but don’t understand why such a design would have a ‘strong local connection’?

This was a design by Havelock Walk artist Rob Lowe AKA Supermundane

it would create a strong connection simply by being unique and it’s situation!

a bit like buying some jazzy shoes

I’m sure he could do something around the SE23 / FH theme. He’s done similar stuff before…

I love his work. And that mural at the entrance of Havelock Walk is a wonderful addition to our neighborhood. But the style which makes that mural and the poster above interesting may also be unsuitable for the welcome sign.

Given the sign is intended to be read by drivers, any design should be easy to read and instantly identify Forest Hill.

My favourite idea so far is the vintage US postcard style that anon64893700 suggested above. Think using that style as the influence for something slightly tongue-in-cheek would look fantastic and add real personality to the area and potentially incorporate a few Forest Hill landmarks (replace the Capitol building in the below with the Horniman Museum and feature the Walrus, bandstand, south circular(!) etc.)

Getchya

Would be brilliant I think, but would require the walls to be rendered first to get a decent image. Would happily chip into a crowd funding collection if something a original to the area could be done.

I think we need to go for assembly funding at the next round & hopefully we can secure the maximum £2500. We could do this either at FH or Perryvale wards - We would have to discuss/decide which group would apply for it i.e. FHTA, SE23.life, FH Soc etc.

When the emails get sent I’ll post the dates for deadlines of application - it could also be applied for by an individual.though probably best as a group/organisation.

Then maybe do a poll on designs etc?

Surely it needs to be designs first, as well as who can carry out such ideas. Then finding the pricing and if it is permitted, then a show of hands for preferences, then deciding on funding.

I am sure a crowd funder would easily raise a few grand. Especially if there are perks to be had from it for local established businesses.

crowdfunding would be a good idea. I’d support

I would even chip in from the Shires.

I love the idea of a massive and original Forest Hill sign somewhere in a prominent position. It can certainly help community cohesion and identity. But from my perspective the place signs bring greatest benefit to the businesses in the area. So while I’d throw a few bob (or more) towards a crowd funding site, I’d want to see individual businesses or the FHTA take a big chunk of the costs as well.

From the previous quote we got when this thread was started £2500 would cover it, so if we got assembly funding from LC we wouldn’t have to raise anymore

Or… if there was additional funding through a combination with business and public subscriptions you could run a design competition, increase the value of the project to encourage more interest… Perhaps create something with light…

Would be my exact goal too

£2500 was the price to do one like the Herne Hill one was it not?
Depending on the funds available, a far better and original design could be done… I’m pretty sure that most crowd funding sites allow refunds if the plan doesn’t go ahead.

So maybe if people tendered designs for consideration, a crowd funder could be set up so the community can play their part in the whole process.

Yes it was Michael.

I like your thinking

Brockley is getting its mural!

Meanwhile in Forest Hill…

Missed the bus me thinks.

I far prefer Lionel’s designs to the others suggested. If you’re driving, clean strong graphics are far better, and it would be nice to have a cohesive approach with our neighbours.

I feel today is a good day for a poll:

What would you like to see done to the wall under the railway bridge across the south circular in Forest Hill?

Once we have something close to a consensus we can work out the funding options.

I’m confused. Are we talking about something in the (pedestrian) underpass or something which passing motorists can see? If the latter, where would it be?

Under the railway bridge near the CoOp Robin.

We’re just waiting to see what everyone else does so Forest Hill will be the best one

Sorry, Michael’s reference to ‘the Underpass’ misled me.

I took underpass to mean the pedestrian tunnel.

Really sorry. I changed the reference to underpass. I was distracted by trying to do some work at the same time (really it does happen sometime). Do we need to restart the poll?

New thread I think would be best, but that’s just my opinion, don’t know what others think.

Unless anyone objects, I’d just leave it. I suspect most people would make the same choice whether the underpass or other area.

I think I changed my vote just by clicking the different radio button.

So do we start to work on funding options for this now & possibly put in an assembly funding application

Shall we apply for £2500 Assembly Funding from Perry Vale Ward, application deadline is Friday 15th September - we need to decide which group/organisations we apply via for the signage

"Perry Vale Assembly Fund is open
Bids are invited to Perry Vale Assembly Fund for projects that meet Perry Vale Assembly Priorities
and benefit people who LIVE, WORK OR STUDY in the ward.

You may apply for up to £2,500 and the deadline to apply is 5 pm on Friday 15th September.

Please be aware that funds are intended to support primarily community led, innovative small projects that would find it difficult to obtain funding elsewhere. Existing or repeat projects that have received funding in previous years from the Assembly are encouraged to look elsewhere.

The 2017/18 Priorities are:

Children and young people.
Unemployment and skills development.
Older people and intergenerational.
Crime and antisocial behaviour.
Environment and ecology.

In addition to meeting the priorities, applications will be assessed on whether:
they offer direct benefit to people who live, work or study in the ward
there is evidence of need for the project, and whether a similar resource exists in the ward
they are value for money
they are sustainable once assembly funding stops
alternative funding has been explored and is available.

Please find full details on the Perry Vale Assembly page of LB Lewisham’s website – at the link below:

Perry Vale Assembly Fund

If you have any questions on the Assembly Fund after reading through the application form, please feel free to contact me by reply email or on 020 8314 3830."

Sad to report that the one in Brockley has already been graffitied upon.

Can we make a decision on this, so we can get our skates on and apply for assembly funding if required.

It’s much easier to get assembly funding from Perry Vale Ward than FH Ward as less apply.

@Michael just making you aware of this post

I think there’s been enough positive comments to say yes definitely apply for assembly funding! I think the location and idea are clear

Just a personal viewpoint, but if the idea is just to do the standard “Railway sign” mural (the one that’s been done before in a number of neighbouring areas of SE) on the base of the railway bridge I feel like that’s been done before and has the effect of standardising SE23 / Forest Hill rather than doing something unique that helps create our own identity.

I’d like us to be more ambitious and original. I’ve mentioned in earlier posts the Leyton light boxes as examples of something that i think is ambitious and original (I’m not suggesting we copy them, just giving an example of such a project):

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I’d love the idea of getting the support of the local council / assembly to cooperate with the owner of the W H Smith building which is at the heart of Forest Hill with good sight lines from London Rd to get an illuminated Forest Hill or SE23 sign on the roof - a 60sec paint job to attempt to illustrate the sort of thing I mean:

I agree that getting the funding would be a good step - but I’m not sure if the idea needs to be agreed before getting the funding? The best approach would seem to be to invite submissions for a sign/mural that has a specified budget and then put it to a vote.

When @Michael asked what people want, this was the response:

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I interpret the results as 39% of voters supporting the “vintage railway style” mural for Forest Hill:

The other 61% want something else (let’s call it “non vintage”) - but do they all want the same “something else”?

By my maths, in order to beat the overall vote for the “vintage” design, 64%+ of “non vintage” voters would have to stand behind a single design (assuming all “vintage” voters stuck with their original choice). How likely are we to get this level of agreement among the “non vintage” voters for a single design, given how individual our tastes are?

In conclusion - I think if we’re to explore other options, we need to set a time limit (say, end of August) to decide, otherwise we risk the project remaining in limbo for another year. That means alternate proposals need to come in within the next couple of weeks, and if they don’t, I think we should run with the “vintage” design.

Hahahaha. We should use this logic for the 2016 EU referendum result.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The question might be in this case, is no sign better than a bad sign?

How about a ‘call for ideas’ with a deadline of 11th Aug, then a week or so of voting? Should give enough time to mock something up for the application…

The voting could include the “vintage” option again.

Thoughts?

Sounds good, @_Ed.

I can create a topic for submissions and mod it to ensure it doesn’t become “submissions + chatter + unhelpful political stirring.”

Do you think we should restrict to mockups of Forest Hill / SE23 designs, or would it be okay to allow photos of examples from other areas e.g. the Leyton design? My concern is in allowing “oh look at this cool design” submissions, we wouldn’t be able to cost them or do a like-for-like comparison.

Does this mean SE23.life is leading on this project?

I’m happy to put effort into the process, as far as I can, including promoting it on social media and with posters etc.

SE23.life is well placed to host discussion and a vote, because it is on the open web and is the most popular local online forum.

Regarding the funding application, SE23.life cannot apply for ward funding because my company is private ltd.

Ah okay. While this is all fun right now is there danger of putting the cart before the horse? As I understand it there is still no sponsor or lead for this project that wouldl be able to make a submission. And once there is a lead I would think they’d want to determine the process such as open submission or perhaps commission from a local Forest Hill artist? And then choose how to engage with the public?

I guess if it is very clear upfront that this poll is only advisory and any outcome is pending a sponsoring group coming forward?

Actually I didn’t interpret that question as support for the vintage railway sign but for a large graphic mural based on the name. The Ladywell sign as another example in that category.

I loved the railway style sign when Herne Hill got it all those years ago. But while fun, by the time it got to Brockley it was beginning to feel a bit dated and done. With the artistic energy in Forest Hill centred in Havelock Walk it’d be great to have something new. And yes, I understand everyone’s new is going to be a vast chasm of taste.

Just a thought. While the site itself is private, could there not be a SE23.life users group which could make submissions? Before you suggest it, I’m out as I’ve put myself forward to help with the Assembly this year.

Although I like the idea of a distinctive South East London style (i.e. the vintage rail design), I also love local Havelock artist Rob Lowe’s (AKA Supermundane) modern designs (including the current Havelock mural). Also the bright and bold designs of Survival Techniques.

Possibly - although there is quite a lot of bureaucracy in setting up a non-profit for this purpose. I did look into this last year after @Pauline sent me some info on the requirements for applying for ward funding. I came to the conclusion it would be easier and quicker for SE23.life to raise £2500 for the mural via a public crowdfunder than it would be for SE23.life to set up a non-profit arm and apply for £2500 from the council.

But if anyone else wants to do the legwork, they are welcome to leverage the SE23.life “brand” and I will help in all promotional activities.

IMO the Forest Hill Society would be best placed to lead and raise the funding as they have the expertise and the established non-profit entity. They may, of course, have other projects in mind for 2017 funding though.

Last year I created an opt-in category (join the FH Mural group for access). To discuss the nuts and bolts of the mural project, that’s probably the best place. But obvs, anything more general (and the vote on designs) should be out here in the main forum.

I’m not trolling, but thinking about it I’m not even convinced under the railway bridge on the south circular is a good location for a mural. Seems to me like:

• Few pedestrians will see it, it’s just one of 2 ways to get to Forest Hill ‘centre’ from the other side of the railway and not visible from ‘centre’.
• Lots of drivers will pass it, but few of these are actually stopping in FH (if advertising to these is the aim then fair enough)
• I love the one in Herne Hill, but it’s very central to the location there.

I’d prefer something in the pedestrian underpass (perhaps co-ordinated with one under the bridge) or even better something at the crossroads. It’s a long thread, so my apologies if this has been said before.

Perhaps we need the Forest Hill society to apply for some funding AND for SE23.life (or a charity that can claim gift aid) to do some crowdfunded match funding. This will make the ward assembly money go further and split the cost… £1500 each? £3k total?

I agree with those against the railway sign style by the same artist - it would show a complete lack of imagination and creativity. If part of the purpose is to alert visitors that they have entered a distinctive neighbourhood with its own identity and local offerings, then surely choosing the same “off the shelf design” as 3 or 4 other neighbouring areas would demonstrate the opposite.

I am sure there are loads of other locally known artists capable of designing and implementing such a mural who would interested in submitting a proposal if contacted.

I could apply for assembly funding on behalf of the community as a local trader if all else fails - happy to submit an application if a few others oversee the application with me & I would want to make it public so all could see what funding was granted & how it was spent. And for the whole total to be spent on this project to keep my own accounts okay.

Happy to go ahead & get on with this if a few others will oversee

Can we redo this poll @anon5422159

Plus ask what organisations peeps think should apply for this funding:

• Forest Hill Society
• FHTA (Forest Hill Traders Association)
• Individual Trader/s
• Group of locals (bank acc would need to be set up)
• Other

I think we need some design options before running the poll to choose one?

I think all need to run at the same time, is this possible?

For instance if the mural is more FH Traders related, they should take the lead.

If the design is more FH local related, we should set up a group to decide.

If it’s what FH Society do best & go with the community, they should take the lead.

Last but not least, if we want to work on branding FH as a whole I think we need to dig deeper & all creatives need to come together to work on this.

Just my thoughts!

I don’t want to speak on behalf of FHS but I don’t think the issue will be not wanting to apply for the funding. The issue is having someone with the time, energy, resources to arrange the artist and mural and approvals with the Council/Network rail… volunteers who can help deliver stuff like this are always needed.

Ps I agree about the forest hill specific design of the mural proposal. I think we need to get the funding and then choose a design

Have got permission from network rail already & Council seems to agree, so that’s covered

I agree that the underpass is not the best location. Most people seeing it will be on the South Circular and in FH for only a minute or two. Wouldn’t it be better for it to be seen from the station and/or from London Road?

I think the rail bridge /south circular is a great location! Even though people will only see it for a few seconds they will have a much more positive view of the place from a mural in that location. Doesn’t mean there can’t be others too…!

I love the Leyton idea. I must admit that some of the murals look a bit tired after a while.

We’re lagging!

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To be honest since those underpasses a pretty much painted the same everywhere it would be a bit lame having just another one in se23, not saying at all I don’t like the underpass to get spruced up but maybe with a more fresh and original design

Great work, @Lionel.

Would you still be willing to do the same or similar in Forest Hill?

Then again - has anyone seen the wonderful racing greyhounds montage and butterflies on the walls on the over-bridge to Catford Bridge station. A real and vivid extension to the signage on the under-bridge.

A vivid and now present extended mural - innovative and artistic. What more can be asked when you chose to energetically identify SE6.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4448/37598864771_4e74afbbb5_b.jpg

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Yes Chris of course if you can decide what you’d like to have painted.
Having done five of the railway signs now, if you were to decide on one of those I can also reduce the quote I gave you.

Lionel Stanhope
Scenic Art Services Limited.
07710651578

Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/lionel_stanhope
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lionel_stanhope/

I would love one of the underpass signs like Lionel did for Catford. What’s wrong with a unifying design across London? It has a traditional feel about it, like the tube name signs, but we could still play around with colour or if we want to be more quirky I’m sure there’s effects or symbols that can come off it.

I think you’re right. The problem with our earlier poll (“traditional” or “other”) is that there were no concrete alternative options provided for voting on. So, a winning “other” vote relies on everyone in that camp agreeing on a single design. Only then could we say that the “other” design was more popular than the traditional design. In practise this seems unlikely.

If I’m to take the lead on this project, I’m going to make an executive decision and choose the traditional design. It’s consistent with other local murals; it is costed, and we have a fantastic local artist who is here on the forum and willing. If we continue the “committee stage,” our mural may never happen.

Next steps - funding. So far, no non-profit group has applied for council funding for the mural (as far as I’m aware). SE23.life cannot apply for council funding because it’s owned by my private ltd company and council rules require the bid to be made by a non-profit.

But that’s no problem. I think a crowdfunder would work well here. Looking at prior crowdfunders (most recently, Cooper’s) we should easily be able to raise the cash required - which I imagine will be roughly £2,500. £500 will be donated by SE23.life, so that leaves the remainder for local businesses, residents, and perhaps the council, to contribute.

This project has massive local appeal, as can be seen here and on other social media.

Can anyone see any issues with starting a crowdfunder imminently?

Crowdfunding sounds like the best option to me, I don’t see any issues with it. I imagine it’s a lot quicker to raise funds that way too!

The crowdfunding may be more successful if people know what the design will be as I think it likely that people will be more generous if they can better visualise what the final design will look like.

I think that it would be good it we can get the immediate pavement area cleaned while the crowd funding is ongoing. Not only would the final design look better and be a better reflection of Forest Hill against clean surroundings , but I think that it would dissuade graffiti. Is this something that the council can assist with or is this something that TFL can assist with, being a pavement to the S Circular?

There is a stump of a broken streetlight (unless it was an illuminated sign). It’s been broken for a few years, but it would be fantastic if it could be either removed or replaced. Again, it would be good to know if it is TFL or the council who would be responsible.

Finally, the netting to stop pigeons roosting in the bridge is ripped. Is this a Network Rail issue?

I know that a lot of the above is cosmetic, but it would be good to have the sign looking as good as possible for as long as possible.

Agreed. Is there any chance you could create a mock-up, @Lionel? If necessary I can cover any upfront cost out the the SE23.life donation.

I have spoken to @Lionel on the phone today, and he kindly agreed to make at least one mock-up at no charge. I’m going to visit the site tomorrow to get a square-on photo for the mock-up background. We may even have two or more mock ups to choose between, and we’ll run a vote here on the forum.

More detailed discussion in the “FH Mural” category (opt in here if you’d like to get more involved in the logistics).

I love the Lionel design. But haven’t been a huge fan of its use for Forest Hill. With each use in another area I think its impact is negatively affected. And as someone else noted it risks homogenizing are corner of SE London. I’d much prefer something unique, but I appreciate this takes time and needs a lead(er). So thank you for taking this on.

For a manufacturer, repetition is ideal. For an artist, it can be limiting. I wonder if the idea used in other locations could be progressed a bit. For instance I love this one in Catford that Lionel has on his Instagram. This may be a bit too much of a change for us gentle folk of Forest Hill… but you get the idea.

Likewise, while I really like Lionel’s original design my personal view has always been that I would like us to do something to differentiate ourselves rather than just replicate what has been done elsewhere. That said I accept that there has been no formal mechanism for alternative ideas to be put forward or to decide on one alternative and then have a vote.

I have proposed or supported two ideas on this thread, but I’m not an artist and don’t have any experience of this kind of thing so have no idea whether either is realistic.

The first is a traditional US postcard style mural A better welcome to those passing through SE23

The second is an installation around the London Road junction - preferably something that lights up at night:

I assume the first idea is more practical than the second. Could we have a poll to vote for all the “alternative ideas” (provided they have been seriously proposed above) and then pit the winner against Lionel’s mural?

If not I would obviously support the proposal as i think something is better nothing, but I would be a bit disappointed that we would be falling in line with the rest of SE London rather than being original and distinguishing ourselves.

Regardless, thanks to those who are being proactive and taking the lead in trying to get something done, your efforts are certainly appreciated.

If we continue down this road we’ll need to get:

• Artists lined up for the alternative designs
• Costings
• Realistic, Forest Hill tailored mockups comparable to Lionel’s Blue and Burgundy designs (which he sent to me today and which I want to post up soon for voting)

My fear is that if we remain open to submissions, we’ll just continue what we started in Summer 2016. A never-ending topic (176+ responses already!) that delays the project until all excitement about the idea has faded completely.

There is a lot of local energy over the pattern Lionel has established across SE London. Twitter is abuzz about the recent Brockley and Catford murals and people are clamouring for Forest Hill to have its turn. We would benefit from the buzz, and it won’t last forever. I think the time to act is now.

Oh… I don’t know - there might be room for advancing the theme a little and personalising it to Forest Hill, we do have a rather famous Walrus after all…

(pls. excuse my rushed and poor Photoshop skillz)

Hired.

Love it looks great, happy and fun!

Yep I’d be very happy with that Mr Armadillo!! How does Lionel feel about adding a touch of walrus to his design?!

It would seem the walrus has set out a challenge to artists. What better time to respond.

May be something can be done with mural in 3d? I mean the Forest Hill mural design in 3d variations?

Like those 3d on the ground:

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The size and shape of the “canvas” can also play a significant part.

The “wings” to the under-bridge provide an opportunity to present the image in more than one dimension/direction

A little creativity and thought could match the presentation in Catford.

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I was also thinking about the colour scheme, may be to make it with woodlike effect, closer to natural, or with a bit of the nature or something unique to our area, we are Forest Hill at the end. May be with a little bird (like the one on photo) or swifts (we have them in our area) on the top of the ‘board with letters’ or a piece of tree branch, or flowers…

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Wow - love the Crofton Park one.

Surely that’s the easiest solution - commission Lionel to do it, but ask him to use his creativity to come up something a little bit different from the other areas, as he has done in Crofton Park. The mock up can then displayed in the crowd funder.

For me, it needs to be a design and colours that can hold their own in space with very little light.

Remember this is a sign, not a generally decorative mural. It needs to be clean, clear, eye-catching and easy to take in when passing both by foot and in a vehicle. More creative and complex designs to represent Forest Hill would be better done elsewhere.

Why does it have to be a sign?

Rachael

I remember the good old days when you would swoon at even hint of a proposal to put engravings in the underpass.

However your point is well made - and Catford has done well with the simple sign design - and then enhanced it all with the greyhounds and butterflies juxtaposed.

Because that’s the point of this project - to make a Forest Hill identifying sign.

Who, me?

Doesn’t anyone think it’s worth looking into contacting the owner of this dull brick block so maybe we can get some permission so spice it up? Any colour on it at all rather than that bleak brown right? Slap that giant walrus up there if you want. I think it’s a much better positioned than under the bridge and also it’s what people will see coming out of the station. Lol don’t get me wrong do both for all I care. Just saying someone on here must have the time to find the registered owner of the building and request some permission to paint it?

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Hi @Mr_Robin_Banks - When you asked this question last year the answer was:

But of course things can change over time, so if you’re able to get in touch with the owner, ask him/her and let us know.

Catford got two traditional-style murals, plus greyhounds, plus butterflies.

We could have a traditional-style “Forest Hill” mural under the South Circular underpass, a SE23+Walrus on the WH Smith building, some custom graphics along the pedestrian underpass and more elsewhere. In particular, the road divider outside HOP station would be a great spot for some @Lionel typography.

But let’s take things step by step, and focus on these projects one-by-one to avoid diluting our energy.

Love the idea of a Forest Hill mural but feel like the ‘Herne Hill’ type ones are a bit samey (and twee, sorry). What about seeing if some of the local youth groups or 6th forms could put forward some designs, as well as artists at Havelock? Agree it should celebrate either our famous walrus (or ferfect chicken).

Is that the actual the wording of the brief?

Well, we don’t actually have a written brief, but the discussion has always been focused on a sign that says ‘Forest Hill’, even if there’s not unanimous agreement on the style.

That’s not to say we can’t have other murals, but I’m pretty sure this project has always about making a Forest Hill name sign.

Just flagged this to Rob Lowe aka Supermundane and Places in Print.

I like Places in Print’s work. Will be interested to see if they come up with anything. I did a quick and dirty photoshop using their Walrus print - it’s not right for the railway bridge location but think would look good on the side of the W H Smith building…

Agree that @Place_in_Print is an awesome local designer.

All - Bear in mind that alongside design submissions, we’ll need an artist lined up willing to do the paintwork, a quote and estimated completion date.

Ta!

In notes to both I asked them to revert to here for further info and questions.

Why do we want to welcome people “passing through SE23”?

Thank you For Driving Through our Village. See you same time tomorrow.

My earlier suggestion was: “Thank you for visiting Forest Hill. Come back soon, without your car”

Sorry, I am confused, if it is about only sign, why Walrus on it?? And how walrus is connected with Forest Hill anyway?

Nicked from @starman 's earlier post:

https://twitter.com/HornimanWalrus

A brief explanation of the Walrus in Horniman’s - a long standing and much-loved exhibit. It has huge numbers of followers in the area.

I see… Thank you for clarification.

Thanks for thinking of us @anon17648011 @anon5422159 @starman. Giving it some thought, but would be pretty tough to get something mocked up in time (busy season).

I’m not sure whether anyone has approached them yet, but Designed by Good People did some great painted signs up at Kirkdale. Might also be worth a shout.

Agree deadline is short. Easy if you’re amending an existing identikit design already executed in several locations.

@anon5422159 Why don’t you delay the time period for mock-ups? Especially as the thing is not going to be painted until Spring 2018. Doesn’t seem very fair to artists other than Lionel…

@Place_in_Print, @Jalapeno, @HOPcrossbun

Okay - I hear you. Let’s make it Dec 11th. I’ll put the announcements out on social media.

Great - think that makes sense. I think the mural is a great idea btw and thank you for being so generous to donate the first £500!

Just tweeted Lee of “Designed by Good People” to make him aware you mentioned him

Catford’s new signs under the railway bridge in front of the station.