What’s a 'sidewalk cafe lifestyle ‘? Cluttering up the pavements with tables and chairs where trendy young people can sit playing with their laptops, nursing "flat whites’, whatever they are, and getting in the way of the rest of us who have a train to catch?
Yep. That. Glorious.
Completely agree Mr @Anotherjohn
“I said exactly the same thing on the other forum back in April 2015 when the consultation was open -
I have been looking at this and my solution (breaking a few eggs!) would be to insert camera-enforced double red lines (as it is affects the movement of buses and traffic on Tfl’s junction on the Sth Circ) and very strong bollards all the way through the bottle-neck right out to the kerb line to protect pedestrians. This would unfortunately prevent loading and unloading for the traders along that part of the road so, to compensate for this, there would have to be a re-jigging of the wider pedestrian areas extending from the bottom of Derby Hill to the betting office to provide some strictly enforced loading bays”
Nice idea, but in reality, they don’t, and within a few minutes there are tailbacks behind each bus, leading back to the station, causing a jam on the south circular. I use the bus on this route every day, I see it with my own eyes.Friday evenings were dreadful with customers parked outside the hill. You end up sitting on a bus for twenty minutes because drivers are trying to move their cars to ease the jam, but can’t as a result of backed up traffic. Thank god the Hill is no longer open as the customers were a nightmare, but that’s a whole new thread.
I don’t dispute that, @InTheNightGarden, I’ve been in those tailbacks too. I was responding to the situation where an emergency vehicle gets stuck - if the bay is being used for loading and sirens are wailing, I do think the driver will move.
As I understand it, the parking rules will be different when the road reopens. While illegal parking was a big problem, legal parking on the single yellow lines in the evening and at weekends was also a big issue. As has been said before, we need a few weeks of rigorous enforcement and handing out parking tickets when the road reopens.
All the more galling, knowing that this was the council’s intention all along. £1.5M of taxpayers’ money spent on an ideological zero-sum game played against drivers.
Designed to support their “popular” borough-wide 20mph project.
The more the road becomes a nightmare for drivers the less they will hopefully use it so only a win win in my books, hopefully they stick to the alternatives used over the last 6 month
What you just described is not a win-win. It is the definition of a zero-sum game.
All getting a bit serious and doom mongering here isn’t it?
Guess once it is open and up and running, we will all get to see how it works. I am sure there will be plenty of humble pie consumed.
Hopefully, for the time and money it’s taken, it will work out. Even if those giant planters are stoopid.
Still a win win in my book
Why take this thread into politics / bashing the 20mph limit?
I’m not sure anyone has brought politics into the discussion.
The reason the 20mph limit is relevant is outlined in this council document explaining the reason for the Dartmouth Roadworks themselves. This is fundamentally linked to the traffic issues that were brought up earlier in this topic this morning.
Have to agree with @Dave here. Getting very close to the mark of local politics. And a clear distaste for their policies.
Well as chrisbeach pointed out in the zero-sum game post you can’t have your cake and eat it
As much as I would like to have double red lines on Dartmouth Road, it is not in Council power to install them.
Therefore double yellow lines is best we can do, and as someone mentioned a lot of problems were caused by then legal parking on single yellow lines.
And to remind everyone, the road narrowing should still be sufficient for two buses to pass each other with some spare room. This is obviously not enough to pass a parked car on the road, but even prior the works busses could not pass each other when someone was parked on the road. Therefore narrowing the road should not create extra congestion in itself.
It seems demand for parking in the area is quite high, so hopefully people will start using Perry Vale car park and walk few minutes to the shops. I did my best to increase free time to 2 hours, which may be reverted back if found not to be used. I will certainly ask for the trial period to be extended for another year as my agrgument will be, that the roadworks created quite a bit of parking space that was used, which I assume will be diverted to Perry Vale car park after the works finish.
I think thread should stay focussed on any snagging and other issues of concern we can usefully raise now. When the road reopens we can have a new thread to monitor issues that arise. Threads that are full of nothing but speculation about what might happen tend to end up being circular and repetitive because there is no new information to inform the discussion.
Any ideological stance that may have been behind the road design is now irrelevant to the practicalities of what we have and how we want to ensure it’s the best it can be. Flaws in the design (if there are indeed flaws) will become apparent soon enough.
I would have thought the best place for a discussion about the politics that inform policy, especially with local elections coming up, is in Local Politics.
The two hours free parking was a great idea and I think has helped to keep people going to the town centre. Indeed a footbridge from that car park would have been money better spent than the works on Dartmouth Road.
I didn’t realise it was a trial and I’d like to help keep it going, what can we do to help influence whoever makes those decisions?
The only real criticism is the bus stop positioning going towards London Road. The ‘Forest Hill Pools’ stop is too close to the other one by the library/primary school, while an opportunity to move the bus stop from outside Barclays to the Heron House complex has been lost.
The latter would have stopped issues where the 122 blocks the road, so the 176 and 197 block the rest of the carriageway.
So, road chaos and unhappy people aside, does the new update look good?