Graffiti on our lovely HOP street art (“Love Them, Tell Them”)

I noticed this morning that the ‘Love Them? Tell them’ mural at the corner of Honor Oak Park and Stondon Park Road has been ruined on one side with a large tag. Any ideas who to contact to get it removed and re-done?

(Updated to add a pic)

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FixMyStreet app is great. They normally respond quickly. Hope you get it fixed. Such a shame ️

That’s really sad. I think we’d need to get in touch with the artist as opposed to the council, as the council probably won’t have the time/expertise to repair the art work.

It was Naomi Edmondson (Survival Techniques) that did this piece

Thank you both. I’d hate for the council to just paint over it.

Very sad to see this lovely very mural being defaced in such a senseless manner. The fools should read the sentiment behind the mural!

I can’t say I like this form of graffiti.

But at the same time I can’t ignore that street art was born out of the graffiti movement and the two remain closely related. I guess it informs a debate as to whether street art is meant to be transient or permanent. I lean towards the former as street art is subject to weathering whether it is paint flaked by rain or transfers flaked by wind.

There is also a great tradition of transforming street artwork through interaction with other artists, or even simply the (thoughtful) addition of graffiti and tags. Thewar between Banksy and King Robbo began as an effort to deface each other’s work. But in reality it showed how street art can itself be transformed through guerrilla action and grafitti… and still be art.

Another great example is the Leak Street “gallery” by Waterloo where new street art by a variety of established artists comes and goes.

This aside, I do think simple tagging is the laziest form of street art. And if another artist seeks to transform an existing piece through their own addition, it should seek to transform or augment rather than simply destroy.

In this case, I’d be really interested to here the artists viewpoint on the matter.

Tagging is pure lame, might as well take a wizz up it!
Not my favourite of pieces locally, but all the same, it deserves respect.

Just to say I have reported this via FixMyStreet.

I was with a group of primary school children this morning when we spotted this, and they were so upset to see it. I think it means a lot to many people.

Tagging is crap. There’s no justification for it. No philosophical conundrum here.

“Love Them, Tell Them” was an uplifting, beautifully executed message that appealed to all.

The tag is just mindless vanity crap and deserves our universal condemnation.

Tagging for tagging’s sake, art for art’s sake. (with apologies to 10cc).

Tagging is one thing but tagging over something as worthy as that sign is just the sign of an immature mind.

I don’t think we’re in disagreement here.

That’s twice in a day and it’s still early.

This is being discussed over on the SE23 Mums Facebook group too. Someone has a photo of three men tagging the mural. Apparently several people shouted at them from their cars but they just shouted abuse back and kept going.

Please post those pics here if you can.

@anon5422159 They haven’t shared the photo on Facebook. I’m not sure what posting the pic online would achieve… Probably better if they choose to report it formally.

Someone here may recognise them, and thus may make it an easier case for the authorities to investigate.

OK, if they share any pics I’ll let you know and perhaps you can get in touch with them to discuss. The idea of publishing an image like that online makes me feel a little nervous!

I’ve also shared this with the Brockley Street Art team and Naomi Edmondson (the artist) on Twitter. Fingers crossed there’s something positive they can do.

These are not nice people and publication of people in a public place online is not illegal. Lets not worry about upsetting them, lets find out who they are and show them up for what they are, vandals.

There is a lively discussion about it on the I love SE4 facebook page. Also is it anything to do with the council? Is it not someones fence?

@anon94852771 I’ve just been reading the I Love SE4 thread. Interesting discussion - and it definitely relates to the points raised by @starman earlier on here.

The idea of the Brockley Street Art team engaging with local tagging crews so they and the more commercial street artists can co-exist peacefully, allowing space for each other’s work, sounded very positive. Shame they didn’t get any uptake.

I dislike street painting and tagging. Some people think the original painting is art; the guy doing the tagging thinks his is art. Both are entitled to their opinion, as am I. I think any street painting is an eyesore. Forest Hill is blighted by tacky paintings, especially the one by the Sylvaner Post. Makes the place look like a ghetto.

@InTheNightGarden the key differences being:

• “Love Them, Tell Them” was commissioned and had permission from the land owner (as do all festival street art pieces).
• The tag is wilful destruction of someone else’s art.

Hopefully the artist will have used graffiti protective lacquer as if so, it should be relatively easy to remove the “tag”.

I am probably nitpicking - but I couldn’t get past the referral to tagging as “work”. Perhaps replacing the two middle letters of that word with “an” would be more accurate.

Have you a link to this thread?

It may not work for those who aren’t FB members, and who aren’t members of the “I love SE4” group

Thanks. Beyond the rightful indignation on this matter, there is a really interesting conversation developing there on the transience of street art and the clash between commissioned works versus more traditionally unsanctioned (guerrilla) works. As well as some good commentary on the linkages between tagging and street art today.

I’ve asked to join the group.

You should consider writing for the Guardian, @Starman - I think you’ve got the knack.

The tag looks s**t. Had it looked better then maybe there’d be less uproar. I’ll hold the rest of my opinion as I can’t be bothered to have anyone jumping down my throat at the moment. I thought this post summed it all up nicely though.

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I could not have said it better.

I’m sure there are plenty of examples where thoughtfully commissioned street art and guerrilla graffiti complement each other brilliantly - and that’s great. But in this case, I really can’t see it.

I’ll return the compliment. I’ve always thought you’d be a great contributor to Guido Fawkes.

Tagging is attention seeking behaviour by adolescents (even if they are in their 20s or older) and is about territory marking and display. It’s got nothing to do with art or making any sort of statement other than ‘I am here!! Look at me!!

Ridiculous. Are you saying I can write a pseudonym over the same tag in Comic Sans font and it’s just as credible amongst the graff community? Style is everything.

I think it is a real shame this has been vandalised. I agree it is attention seeking & the perpetrators if they could be caught, should be made to clean it off. I bet they don’t even live round here!

Would any artist want to speak out against these selfish, destructive, vain, talentless, territorial, adolescent taggers? I doubt it.

Artists risk getting all their work defaced if they upset taggers

That comment gave me a chuckle. I have this vision now of a group of well organised,. SE23.life savvy yet disaffected and destructive be-hooded yoofs huddled around their iPhone Xs at St. David’s coffee house reading the latest thoughts on this topic and planning their revenge.

At least the Brockley Street Art Festival co-organiser Phillipa Ellis hasn’t had a problem expressing her thoughts on this matter on the Facebook page. Though as more ‘curator’ than artist perhaps she doesn’t quite fear the same level of retribution. That and I’m led to understand kids don’t use Facebook anymore.

ETA. I gather this piece was commissioned through said Brockley Street Art Festival.

By the way the artist Nomeski aka Naomi Edmondsen has a really good site with a separate one for the project Survival Techniques which includes this piece in HOP. Lots of work form this project can be bought as posters from that site.

I’d be interested to hear too. If their style is rooted in grafitti, a disruptive art form, then they may have some more nuanced views on the evolution of ‘vandalism’ into art.

I’m not condoning the tag as I think its disrespectful to the artist (personally). But the tag and the mural are, to me, two ends of the discipline’s spectrum and there’s definitly an interesting conversation around it.

I too think there is an interesting conversation to be had with the taggers as to why they chose this specific site and image to tag over. It’s clearly a controversial thing to do and the fact it stayed tag free for so long is in itself a form of interaction between the two ends of the street art spectrum.

From the artist:

Cool. I see the next Festival starts June 1st. It’ll be lovely to see something new on that corner.

Shall we tell ourselves that the taggers knew the next festival starts in a few weeks and so had practised admirable restraint for a year or two, up until the mural was on its way out anyway.

What conscientious blokes.

How sexist!! lol

Could have been girls

Three men!

Well spotted, you picked up Naomi’s tweet hours before me!

Did it really take three men to do that!

Noticed there is also a tag on the beautiful piece of art along the wall by Babur too running along to Ackroyd

Went past yesterday and it was being whitewashed. Didn’t get a chance to take a pic but it looked like it was being prepped for something new…

I went past at 9pm. There is a picture landscape type thing. No words this time.

It was about 60 % done.

Just went past there myself. Artist was busy spraying away. I’m excited to see what comes next.

My friend just shared this work-in-progress snap on Instagram.

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Continued: Street art on Honor Oak Park / Stondon Park