From Lewisham’s Planning website, at 41 Honor Oak Park (formerly KTK Off License):
Company details Owners: Lee Stewart and Latoyah Lovatt
A reminder of what was there before:
Progress so far:
(image from @Joncocteau)
Wishing Lee and Latoyah the best of luck with this new venture, and looking forward to seeing the end result.
So, Grounds and Grapes. Interesting. Sadly I guess that must be an old sign then. They’d do well to copy the style!
Gentrification FTW
Fantastic! Presumably coffee and wine? Well overdue on the high street. Would love to hear more about the plans.
Hmmmm. Not sure I agree that Lee and Latoyah should copy the style of the sign. They’ve obviously designed their shopfront with considerstion so far.
The old sign is anecdotally interesting, but these guys have their own path to follow…
.
What does FTW mean? Positive or negative?
“For The Win” - a positive
I love that old Guscott’s Stores sign… Any chance that it could be incorporated into the new facade? Would be a shame to lose it…
Would LOVE a wine bar in HOP! NEED THIS TO GO THROUGH!
Given the failure of the attempt to convert the mini-market across the road to a wine bar type place, I would not be confident of this going through. The planning people said something along the lines of HOP already having enough bars.
Are there? pubs yes, restaurants serving alcohol yes, but wine bars no…I see wine bars as a mark of sophistication in the area. there is an Italian coffee and wine bar in Surbiton and it has such a lovely relaxed atmosphere for daytime/early evening drinking, especially when the black clouds and rain are ahead!
I think you’re right, and for what it’s worth I agree that something like 161 Kirkdale would be a brilliant addition to the parade, but I don’t think that the planning officers differentiate.
In theory Hop Scotch is exactly the same sort of place, isn’t it?
In theory, yes, however for some intangible reason I never love it when I go there.
If this is anything like Toaste.d in East Dulwich, that would be great!
We need a wine bar! Hopscotch just isn’t very friendly I find
This is just an alcohol licence rather than planning application. If there has been prior approval change of use A1 to A3 no longer requires planning approval if under 150sqm IIRC.
Hi All,
Latoyah here, really great to hear that everyone is excited about our pending arrival. I won’t bang on too much but as you guessed we are hoping to be a very small but great (and friendly) coffee and wine spot subject to licence approval eeek!. It’s been a very slow process, as you may have noticed the site has been empty for almost two years. We have been working towards this for what feels like an age, it’s a completely new venture for us both. We still don’t have an exact opening date for you i’m afraid as it’s been pushed back constantly but i’m determined to make sure it will be worth the wait. Please come in and visit when we do open, would be lovely to meet everyone. If you do have any questions about what we are up to in the mean time please don’t hesitate to ask.
@Latoyahl - welcome to the forum and thanks for joining the conversation.
I live nearby and am really excited about Grounds and Grapes. The windows you’ve fitted are very classy and the high street is already looking smarter even though you’ve not opened up yet 
Wish you the best of luck and looking forward to saying hi.
Yay, Thanks Chris, That kind of flattery will definitely get you a coffee on the house! 
Really hope you get your licence soon @Latoyahl cant wait to come in and test your wines - myself and my partner are big Wine-O’s
Fingers crossed!
I’ve just realised I’ve met Latoyah and Lee (I used to know Lee’s mum very well). This makes me very excited indeed for this place - I can assure you that L&L have impeccable taste and extremely high standards, so this will be class.
Anyone know if these guys got their licence? The notice has come down from the window.
Hi Latoyah - did you get your licence?
hi @Latoyahl - we walked past the other day and wondered if you’ve had any news yet on your licence. Keeping fingers crossed for you. Do you have any updates you can share?
Hi David,
We did have the licence approved luckily but we are having a problem with the building works so it’s looking unlikely we will be open before Xmas. But as soon as we have a confirmed date I’ll keep you posted!
Speak soon,
Latoyah
Does anyone know when work will resume at Grounds and Grapes? - so excited to see this happen!
Give us an update!
Hi, Apologies for the radio silence. As mentioned we had some problems with the building and had a lot of difficulty finding a solution! We have our builders booked to come back in at the beginning of March so hopefully wont be too much longer to wait.
Huge thanks for the support so far. I look forward to hopefully meeting everyone once we finally open the doors!
How can I get in touch with you @Latoyahl? I have a proposition you may be interested in
The Aussies know how to brew a good coffee!
Anyone have an email address for Latoyah by any chance? Thanks
@Latoyahl Is there any latest news with the opening? I saw some builders at work in there last Monday, but not much since? Excited for the opening!
@Latoyahl So desperate to know whats the latest with Grounds & Grapes - Longing to get a good cup of coffee in HOP!!
This sorry tale has resulted in a rather inaccurately named thread…
Is this actually ever going to open?! Shame to see empty shops on such a small high street
Good news! I have seen builders in working the last couple of mornings of me waking past - door was open and can see it’s going to look great! Really coming along now. Hopefully it will open soon?
Re. The old Guscott’s sign.
I remember this old store, it lasted longer than any of the shops now in HOP parade, and will probably continue to out-live those currently on the parade.
Another part of local history gone forever.
The workmen painted over that beautiful sign. Philistines.
This is great news! This is exactly what is needed in HOP!
Anymore news on the opening?!? There hasnt been any activity again for a few weeks!. Desperate to see this open!
Perhaps a second question mark needs to be added to the title…!
I think it is the “soon” part that has lost it resonance.
I should say, despite my pessimism, I would really like to see this place open its doors and become successful, but I am left feeling very exasperated with certain parts of the Honor Oak parade. It has some decent established businesses but there must be demand for others, it just never seems to quite get there. Such a shame.
I get what you are saying Jerry but would like to point out that though the changes seem glacial they are huge over time. It is hardly recognisable from 10 years ago, in mostly a good way IMO.
Agreed, Brett. But you only need to look to Crofton Park to see how an area can vastly improve in a small space of time.
We need more places for 20 somethings in HOP, like in Brockley or New Cross. Too many places are just full of babies and prams. A wine bar would be a good start!
Nah, we’ll all be in the wine bar too, sorry
Looks like their Facebook page was updated with a photo on the 6th of June:
Does anyone atall know what’s going on with Grounds and Grapes?! It’s been over a year now since it was first reported it was going to open. Work has halted again. No activity for the last month or 2. So frustrating!
I emailed them about a month ago to ask but haven’t received a response 
I popped in to have a chat with the builder on Saturday.
This place is being fitted to a very high standard so I’m sure, whenever it opens, that all this waiting will have been worth it.
I peered in yesterday, too - looking great!
Did you ask when they would be open?
The builder said he didn’t know when they’d be opening - but maybe he was just being discreet.
He was doing a fine job though!
It looks very nice in there if you peep through the windows on your way down the high street
Any updates on this venue? The bursts of activity suggest owners are having cash flow problems? Or is it a planning permission thing?
Nothing to do with planning permission; and the owners aren’t skint by any measure!
They’re just doing their own place with their own money in their own good time.
‘In their own good time’ is about right. I’m sure it’ll be worth the wait.
Considering this has looked the same for over a year now do we assume this isn’t going to open?
What’s the score with shops that are bought on the high street and remain empty - do the council intervene at any point? It’s such a waste of a premium spot on the road and just looks rubbish to leave like it is.
Is there any more update or news on this? It’s so annoying how this just stagnated. It’s been 18 months or so now?!
I had a peep a few days ago and the tables and chairs are there now. Still looks unfinished - very frustrating.
It’s concerning that certain shops seem to be putting off opening (also 195 Stanstead Rd).
Here’s a theory - Could it be that business rates are so punitive that new shops are deliberately holding out for some kind of relief from the council? I assume that rates only come into effect when a shop is trading. And the council doesn’t want to see closed shops on a high street, so maybe the new shops have a bargaining position here?
I hope this is true! Sounds good!
Very confusing though- surely they are hemorrhaging money in rent/utilities etc? Presumably they have some serious backing to be able to swallow these costs for so long??
High end and high quality sound great, but I presume will be reflected by a higher cost. No offence to my neighbours (!) but after spending months and months getting to this preliminary stage, I hope they have correctly identified their local market…
I was looking forward to this but after reading that psuedo press release my expectations have been dampened.
Personally I’m just looking for a good cup of coffee and a decent pastry I can grab on the weekends and my days off, not interested in spending £20 on a glass of wine and a sliver of cheese. I don;t seem to fall into their desired demographic.
I’ll be very happy to have a place where I can get high end stuff without traipsing into central London.
I saw that too @anon5422159 but not too hopeful.
The way these guys operate, I wouldn’t be surprised if hiring took another 6 months, who knows how long it takes to find the perfect 3rd wave coffee barista…
Discussion continues here:
