This is a very long shot, but I’m considering renting the old Chinese take away in front of London Road’s Sainsbury’s (2 doors from @TheButcherySE23) and turn it into a “specialist” restaurant. Specialist because it would serve only one type of food, and although the original idea was cotoletta, a breaded cutlet made with different meat (veal, pork, chicken) and with a selection of toppings, I’m now also considering pasta. Probably because Padella in Borough Market has 2-hour queues outside their doors every night… but my heart is on the cotoletta. And there would be something for vegetarians too, don’t worry

So my questions for you, early panel of local people are…

Which single-item restaurant would you prefer in Forest Hill?

How often would you go (or take out) in a month?

Cotoletta

Pasta

Would you go / take out for lunch, given the location?

OMG I love Padella.

But yes… single-item restaurants are thriving in London but the challenge is big. If you aren’t the best you might as well pack up. Its worked well for Bubble Dogs, Flat Iron, Burger Lobster and Tramshed. No reason it couldn’t work for you.

So my answers…

1. I’d go for the cotoletta cause I’ve never had it, but it sounds delicious. There is a decent pasta place on Deliveroo locally and I get great fresh pasta from that shop in East Dulwich.

2. If I could take out more than I would eat in. Couple of times a month?

3. For me unless I’m with a group of friends I’m more inclined to make my own pasta sauces using good quality dry pasta or fresh pasta from a Borough or East Dulwish. Pasta sauces are just to easy to make.

4. More likely dinner.

Great idea. Good luck.

Hi @fabiodebe Sounds good to me, lets see if @anon5422159 can make a anon64893700 poll for you. He may be busy right now preparing for the SE23.Life evening tonight, I understand the electric in his neck of the woods is playing up, no doubt caused by excessive hair dryer use!

Good idea - maybe better if @fabiodebe does this, so he can tailor the options.

To create a poll, click the in the editor, click “Build Poll” and follow instructions.

Don’t forget to include an “other” and “none” option - or our resident pundit @RachaelDunlop will be very cross!

Ah, excellent thanks! By the way, is there an SE23.Life event tonight?

There certainly is - and I’ve obviously failed to promote it hard enough!

Poll added! And post is now huge

Damn, I’m supposed to see some friends but I’d also love to join (and try fowl mouths). Hardest decision of the week by far!!

I love parmo but as a german I settle for kotlett too

Hmmmm… a very courageous investment me thinks the

I’m going to say Sushi

Philistine that I am says an Honest Burger type place would work.

Japanese would be lovely! My granny used to make Argentinian equivalent of Cotoletta but that’s probably put me off! I can make fried breaded meat at home, and pasta. I can’t do Japanese!

I always think things like this should first be trialled in a pop up environment with an existing audience. Maybe a future All In One pop up?

There is a Meat Liquor on Lordship Lane now I think

Thanks all for replies and suggestions. Sushi would be a very strategic choice and hardly unpopular! Good one… should I opt for it then @clausy gets a lifetime special discount And thanks @Cari_Hoskins for backing sushi (I’d give you a discount as well don’t worry!)

@Graham_Hill why do you say so? Curious to hear your point of view. In private if you prefer.

@Anotherjohn I’m completely fed up with all the burger places which cropped up everywhere in the last year or so to be honest (no pun intended). Although I toyed with the idea of making burgers from prime cuts of beef… don’t know if it makes sense (I haven’t even tried to make one for myself at home) but I reckon that would be my angle - burgers as a treat.

I agree, either a pop-up or a number of supperclub-style evenings.

cotoletta Is amazing, say in a restaurant in Spain having it now. I’d be there 2-3 times per week for sure

Don’t forget Fabio you invited myself @Londondrz & @anon5422159 to test out your amazing food, looking forward to it

And I know where you live if you change your mind

Actually only kidding, but would love to try your cotoletta after chatting to you about it

@TheArchieParker @AllInnOne or @StDavid would be good to have a chat with about doing a pop up x

I’d be more than happy for you to host a night at my shop for free but I don’t have cooking facilities so you would have to prepare it off sight.

How about a Bangers & Mash place? lots of different sausages and posh mash and gravy options. Possible colab with the butchers next door? The Geese in Brighton is a bangers and mash pub and does so well. Simple good comfort food for all year round

Sounds like a great idea & we also have lots of sausage variations @FHFoodAssembly so would work well with @TheButcherySE23 variations too I think

Good idea!

And add the most delicious Sardinian (sweet fennel) sausages at Il Mirto. Yum.

Don’t know if they’re still there/or going to be much longer., but if they are YES to them too.

And the emphasise on the gravy, my lord I love gravy!

• onion gravy
• balsamic vinegar based gravy
• wholegrain mustard gravy
  The list goes on

And the mash!

• buttery mash
• buttery mash with rosemary, my fav
• Cheesy mash with greens

Melt it all in the oven with lots of cheese on top & it’s delicious

I’m starving now

Sausage, mash and gravy. I’d be there every day. Every. Day.

Off to dream of garlic mash & pork sage & onion sausages ( just took them out my freezer) for my dinner tomorrow with GRAVY, I’ll decide on that tomorrow.

YUM

I think it would be a winner

think of the variety of sausages…wild boar, chorizo, bratwurst, polish sausage…pork, chicken, beef, turkey, veggie

Maybe we should all crowdfund a bangers and mash shop?!?

could call it ‘‘Mash Bang Dollop’’

I think bangers and mash is an amazing idea @Jack and my productivity at work is significantly lowered by constant exciting thoughts and ideas about it!

And crowdfunding would be the way I’d fund this (I wish I just had the money in the bank!) and priority would go to local people plus friends & family.

I am really excited. And I should try and find bangers and mash for lunch now

For me sausage and mash is fast food. The one I can make at home fairly quickly using an amazing range of sausages bought locally. Id be unlikely to chose this myself for a night out or on the way home.

Lunch definately but I don’t work in Forest Hill.

Maybe… But its taking the idea to the next level, with different varities of mash and gravy - that attention to detail and luxury you may bypass if you made it at home.

I think its a great alternative to a sunday lunch

You’ll struggle to top @Starman’s attention to detail and luxury…

Agreed. Would be unlikely to go to a place that serves something I could make just as well (ahem probably better) at home.

I would definitely go out for bangers and mash at lunchtime. I’m never going to go to effort of peeling, boiling, mashing spuds, having a particular type of sausage in the fridge, making a gravy. Not gonna happen just for me for lunch.

Dinner is another matter. But again, it depends, maybe I’d want someone to cook for me. It seems a strange argument to me that you wouldn’t eat out food you can make at home. That’s every sandwich shop in the world out of business immediately.

I go out to eat for the enjoyment of it, be it a sandwich, pie and mash or some trendy eatery with foams and emulsions. I do far less of the latter as I find it interesting but just a bit pretentious, I want to eat my food, not SnapChat it… I dont go out as much as I used to, kids does that. Our last meal was MeatLiquor in East Dulwich. Ordinary food by a few standards but lovely to eat, deep fired and battered halloumi with pepper sauce and blue cheese dip. OMG! Who knew.

Yes well I rarely order a sandwich out either, unless the filling has been prepared in a way that makes it special to me. Speaking of which, have literally just had a burger at MeatLiquor, so it is spooky @Londondrz should mention that.

Perhaps I shouldn’t have said “could”, more properly would.

What did you think?

It is good and had been before, though I must confess miss Sea Cow that used to be there. I think the fries are spot on.

Ah, that’s it. We were discussing who had been there previously. Must admit with the Jolly Bee doing a very good fish and chips spending a lot more (even for a salmon and chips) never appealed.

Try the Paneer Monkey Fingers. A little bit of heaven dipped in hot pepper sauce and slathered in a majestic blue cheese sauce. Sorry, channeling Rachael

Are you maybe just not in the market for eating lunch out generally? What would tempt you?

The key here is the suggestion to make bangers and mash ‘special’. If there are speciality sausages I wouldn’t have at home, that would swing it for me. Once a week I like to treat myself to a hot lunch cooked by someone other than me. The idea of a lovely plate of bangers and mash is highly appealing. Although it occurs to me that is might be a bit seasonal. I might not want it at the height of summer.

A question for the OP: do you see this as a lunch or dinner destination or both?

When working from home I eat out rarely but when I do so it is always an event for me. If talking sandwiches, then good salt beef would tempt me, for instance.

For the OP: I think it is instructive to compare this option with the pie and mash that used to be offered by the Clock House. It was very good and you had the various mash options that have been mentioned. It also didn’t last. Youngs, as they were then, were able to run it as an experiment. I get the impression that many people said they would eat it regularly when surveying the market but it would seem not enough did. Am wondering whether this is just the positive feedback on mentioning a ‘comfort food’. I also think that @RachaelDunlop has a point - how many people will eat this in the summer?

I think it’s a good idea - but I liked the old S&M chain (pun unintentional) and after they expanded to about 6 sites, they struggled to make a go of it, tried to sell and closed down.

http://www.bighospitality.co.uk/Business/S-M-Cafe-chain-up-for-sale

I’d definitely be a customer if you opened something in FH like this - good luck.

Interesting. I was thinking that too. But my experience with Sunday lunch is usually with friends and where there is an option of mains including the roasts. We’d probably tray an S&M joint once for fun and the return to our roast beef and yorkshire pudding famials.

Frankly I still MUCH prefer @fabiodebe’s original recommendation.

Personally I don’t eat out for lunch as I work away from SE23 and usually too busy at weekends.
Sausage and mash doesn’t really float my boat - far too easy to make for myself esp as I have sacks of spuds lying around and I always freeze extra gravy from roasts.

What I would like to see and I have given some thought to myself would be a smoke house/bbq. I went to a supposedly great place - the Blues Kitchen last week and it was rubbish and I could do better myself - at home that is as I know nothing about business and running a restaurant. Smoked ribs, slow cooked brisket, chicken wings etc… That I would go out for…

As a cook who plays around with chefery, I am loathe to admit that I’ve discovered frozen mash potatoe. It is sooooo good. Creamier then a ricer can achieve, perfectly seasoned and ready if 3 minutes.

BBQ. Now you’re talking! I can guarantee that would bring all the boys to the yard… from SE23 and beyond!

I invested in a Moulix a few years ago. It really makes fantastic mash (with butter, cream and a dollop of truffle oil) but it is a pain in the rse to use so potatoes just get mashed in our house.

BBQ, well I was born is SA so a braai/BBQ would be awesome.

A smoke house would be utterly amazing!

Why not have cotletta and then pasta the next month and the. Burgers si nobody gets bored and then paulines ice cream for afters😃

A different theme each month would be great I think & happy to share my ice cream supplier with @fabiodebe

Sorry for the radio silence… and thanks for continuing to share your thoughts!

A lot of things we can easily cook at home end up being eaten out… burgers is probably the biggest case no?

Very good point about how summer friendly bangers and mash is. But on the flip side I find it a good option for the little ones, who very often have bangers and mash or chicken goujons when eating at a pub with the family…

I have thought about varying the theme over time, but I think it would make it harder to stand out as a destination for food. Unless the theme was that you eat what’s in season, and then create a menu around that.

I also quite like the concept of not having a menu, but instead you come to my ‘kitchen’ and I feed you whatever is fresh… but for that I’d want to be the main chef and my skills are not up to that level.

How about something like this…and this is very much how I’d do by the way so clearly wouldn’t cater for everyone… I’d go smokehouse, it’s the closest thing to universal apppeal right now and doesn’t show any sign of slowing down. The slow cook movement is gathering pace and makes good use of the ‘cheaper and tastier cuts’ getting more expensive as a raw material due to demand but still cheaper as it aid carcass balance. I’d strike up a partnership with a local butcher for provenance, of which there are a few, and offer ribs, pulled pork and brisket, with limited sides, probably a combo dish to stuck to the one dish specialist theme. Add homemade hot sauce as a usp (along with locally sourced meat) and you’re away. The food prep is relatively straight forward and high volume and would minimise waste, it’s a popular cuisine and becoming more so, throw in a range of hot sauces (many types of chilli now available home grown in the U.K. -further provenance) and I think that’s a recipe for success. I work for a major supermarket so could always dig out some supplier contacts when you get going.

By this I presume you are not doing the cooking?

A suggestion may be to continue with your original idea but to have a rolling series of ‘specials’ every week i.e. BBQ etc and gauge which ones work. That way your bread and butter, as it were, is a staple whilst you find out what else works and go from there. Finding other people to work with you pop up style may work. Speak to Chris Bear at The Butchery, he does very good smokery work.

I wouldn’t, no… but on the concept of “come and I’ll sort you out whatever I found at the market” then I’d need to be. I went a couple of times to Pipsdish in Covent Garden who do that, but I don’t think it’s there anymore

Thanks @James1P. What you say makes a lot of sense and there is an ‘environmental’ element to it (to a certain extend at least) and that’s what I want in the business. Whether it’s using cuts normally not used (for example, I love offals but a single-item tripe/offals shop would be taking it too far!) or sourcing truly locally, according to the most sustainable farming and agriculture, etc.

And then there is the health aspect. I have dramatically reduced the amount of meet I myself eat, and I see it more as a treat than an everyday part of my meals. I don’t know much about smoking but I’ll have a look into it for sure. I suspect that sticky ribs and all the glazing normally used contain an insane amount of sugar, and that’s a no-go for me (sorry @Pauline ;)).

But smokehouse goes into the shortlist…

I dont use any sugar in my glazes at all - just some nice honey from my mates bee hives or some maple syrup. That is exactly my issue with a lot of commercial rib places - overly sugary marinade which means you can’t taste the smokiness.

Now I cant wait to get one on the go!

Agreed. I don’t think I’ve ever used sugar unless it is to balance an Asian flavour. In those cases the sugar used isn’t excessive.

Happy to share my smokey maple marinade recipe for ribs if I get a %age of the sales.

Now there may be commercial reasons for doing it this way but from my own smoking experience, which is done slowly, then there doesn’t need to be loads of sugar in the sauce. DM me if you want some detail but expect to do quite of bit of experimenting to crack this. The result is worth it though and I believe would sell well.

ETA, I see @starman has cross posted in agreement. Am not sharing my recipes though as a lot of reverse engineering involved

My view is think of something that would make people travel to from outside of SE23, as I think the market here isn’t big enough. We go to restaurants in Dulwich or Peckham such as ToastE.D. or the Begging Bowl, but currently I’m not sure there’s anywhere I’d travel to in FH. (Not that I don’t like them or go to them but I think their appeal is local and convenience.)
Also on the idea of different themes Platform 1 in Dulwich is very good, get guest chefs. But I wonder if they struggle to make a name for themselves because of constant change.
Personally was very impressed with Fowl Mouths the other night, not only was it good food, but original. And think people would travel for that …maybe a partnership would be in order…

I think the pool of people in Forest Hill is large enough on its own (the space is quite small anyway!), but then of course having something unique would drive more people for at least some time.

For sure this thread is giving me lots of food for thought (no pun intended!) and made me realise that I know absolutely nothing about smoking, so I’m up to be lectured by @Brett @starman and anyone else who fancies an excuse for some burnt end and what not!

Being vegan, I’m afraid none of these appeal. I’m clearly out of step with everyone here, but just thought I’d post as a representative of the tiny but growing band of people consuming plant-based diets, so there’s a cross-section of views. Apparently a mock fried chicken bar opened in Hackney a couple of months ago, called Temple of Seitan (actually next door to a butcher shop), and press reports are of it having long queues going up the street (which it apparently still has).

Anyway, that aside, it seems that there are a number of eating places in Forest Hill and not all of them well attended. I remember the curry house in Dartmouth Road (forgotten the name) was generally deserted before eventually closing, even though it did decent food. I don’t know if local residents just don’t eat out much, as the population is sizeable. I agree with the person above that it would be a courageous investment and you are wisely undertaking some market research.

Another vote for sushi! Also, think about what kids will eat. There are plenty of people around during the day / early evening in SE23 with kids, who would like a family-friendly restaurant. Not sure if your cutlet idea would appeal to all ages in the same way that pasta does. Also, my kids LOVE sushi…(just saying!). Good luck with your venture, it’s always fab to hear about new businesses in the area

Second the suggestion about having vegetarian/vegan options.

Frankly, the OP seems to be floundering around with ideas so much that I have little confidence we will see an end result. I find the number of departures from the original concept over the course of only a few days exasperating; this currently reads more like market research for a school project rather than a serious attempt to gauge local market reaction.

I would say it’s more the conversation that’s floundering around than the OP. He asked what people thought of a specific proposal. The responses suggest the original proposal hasn’t caught the imagination of this small sample of readers. That’s informative in itself.

At the very early stages of feeling out a possible concept, this sort of back and forth is very typical. As is the tendency for people to stick their hands up and ask for their favourite thing. So I’d agree it’s not the most robust form of surveying. But it’s still a useful excercise as part of a wider strategy.

I think the best advice to come out of the thread is to trial whatever concept he goes with on a pop-up basis.

Totally agree with @RachaelDunlop’s points.

This isn’t an ideal website for conducting serious market research - but it is great for doing straw polls, and exploring imaginative new culinary options for SE23 that make our mouths water in anticipation

The OP stated what he thought he might like to produce and asked for other suggestions. I feel his request has been answered and then some. First rule of business, find out what your potential customers want!

The previous business was Chinese /sushi was it any good? My hubby is a sushi chef and checked this place out but he has no funding to open up a placre one day. Also there is hibagon not far for sushi.

I voted for ‘other’ kind of restaurant. Ideally I would love to see an excellent vegetarian restaurant - perhaps based on the hugely popular ‘Food for Thought’ which was located in Neal Street, Covent Garden for 40 (?) years, but recently closed after its rent was raised.

Other cuisines would also be of interest. Ambience is very important as well as cuisine. A restaurant that pays some attention to acoustics would be popular with me - please no music or at east turn it down, and maybe some sound-absorbing furnishings. Don’t need any more restaurants where conversation is drowned out by music, or 100% hard surfaces means everyone is shouting and no-one can hear.

Hey @Spark6 I never tried the previous Chinese I’m afraid. Would you and your husband fancy a drink one of these evenings? I wouldn’t mind exploring the sushi option (even if unlikely final choice) with someone who has experience with it. Cheers

Hi @Pauline1, I heard about Temple of Seitan and I admit I had to google what seitan actually is… and I discovered it’s wheat gluten, which makes me laugh a bit because gluten free was one of the current trends and now a trendy/hipster place dares to make mock chicken made of gluten!
Jokes aside, I would provide a vegan option (I’d need to experiment with some ingredients) to appease the non meat eaters.

And re @Forestmother mentioning children, I think a mini version of cotoletta made of chicken (chicken goujon basically) would appeal the little ones.

Cotoletta would be served with home made chips / roast potatoes, which can become mash in the kids’ menu.

Hey fabio yeh my husband can meet you. What’s your number he’ll call you. I cant see a direct messgae option on here.

It looks like the restaurant first mentioned in this thread is being refurbished. I had a look through the windows and saw a sign for “Matoom Thai Bistro”. Sounds like a great addition.

I’d like to see a nice salad and juice bar. It’s hard to find good take out fresh salads with a wide variety. I would probably be in every day to grab a juice

The new place has been described to me by the freeholder as a Chinese/Thai take away. That sounds a bit dry and not too exciting, let’s hope it’s more than that!!

Any advancement on your plans?

I decided against venturing into food for now, it would be too demanding on the side of my daily job. Thanks for asking!

@fabiodebe xx

Hmmmm. Chinese/Thai takeaway opposite a Chinese restaurant with a Thai round the corner. I know a bit of healthy competition is fine and everything - but so’s a bit of originality! A nice Japanese takeaway or inventive veggie place would’ve filled the spot nicely.

Any sort of Asian restaurant would be great as long as it is authentic. So no Chow Mein and no MSG!
Possibly Malaysian/Indonesian or Vietnamese. Maybe real seafood?

I agree with Alannah
I’d love somewhere with really good salads (Ottolenghi style) to eat in and take away.
I’d definitely become a regular

We were offered a new/possible restaurant vote back in February and my opinion is still firmly the same because, as sophisticated as many locals’ palates may be, Bona Pizza has clearly demonstrated that providing a simple, consistent, quality product guarantees bums on seats and cash in the till. I’m sure it would keep Deliveroo busy as well!