Forest Hill will soon be sporting a new crowdfunded mural in the railway underpass (details here).

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After a call for design submissions, we received a design from @Lionel and also a version of this design tweaked by @armadillo to feature the famous Horniman walrus. There were no more costed submissions received before the deadline.

Check out the options and please vote for your favourite in the poll below.

Option 1: Traditional

Design by @Lionel

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Colour variant
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Option 2: Traditional, with a touch of Walrus

A tweak of @Lionel’s design by @armadillo, featuring the famous Horniman walrus

Note: this option adds a further £250 to the cost (extra colours for Walrus and extra marking out time as the horizontal design uses the brickwork for quicker marking out).

Colour variant	Design variant
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Place Your Votes!

Polling ends on January 1st 2018

We’ll then have a second quick round of voting to choose the variant.

In the event that voting is not strongly in favour of any one design or variant (45%-55% spread, the artist @Lionel will be offered the final say).

Do we have Lionel’s permission to tweak his idea? The Forest Hill looks a bit squashed…

Yes - ‘a touch of Walrus’ was listed with permission from @Lionel with agreement to paint it if it ended up being the chosen design (agreement from an artist to actually paint the work was a requirement of all submissions).

Although, I’m sure @Lionel will do a much better job of adapting his design than my shoddy paintshop skills allow

Also just in case it’s not 100% clear - if you are voting for the walrus option there will then be a second vote to decide whether the sign will be slanted (shown in the main image) or horizontal (in the design variant image). And the colour will also be subject to a further vote whichever option wins.

I pressed the wrong button! I want the walrus!
Can I change it?
Horizontal looks much better.

Yup, you can change your vote. If the results are showing, click “Hide results”

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…then choose your desired option

In terms of size, Option 1 looks way too big. I would recommend keeping it to the size shown in Option 2, so more space above and below. Even at that size, given it’s bright blue and yellow, it definitely won’t be missed.

Re Option 2, most definitely not the sign at an angle! The sign being the strongest visual element, it will just look way off square, especially from a distance where the walrus is less noticeable. Also, and I know it’s only been Photoshopped, but if the (straight) walrus is chosen it will need to be darker and integrate more with the sign, so shadows added behind the tusks and on the body where the sign sits.

Were there only those two designs submitted?
It’s kinda cute and 19th century looking but not that exciting given it’s pretty much the same as the other designs in neighbouring areas…

Yes, these were the only two designs submitted with an artist lined up, and a quote provided.

We approached other artists. One of them responded to say:

Bear in mind we do want to organise more murals at other sites in Forest Hill - the designs for those are totally up for grabs!

We will do a “round 2” vote to choose between straight/slanted (if walrus wins) and blue/burgundy.

Regarding your other points - here’s Lionel’s comment from a separate topic:

A post was merged into an existing topic: Forest Hill Brick Relief under The Signal

The walrus should be painted on the other side of the bridge to preserve the consistent look of Lionel’s signs throughout the borough.

I’d rather have a sign that was individual to FH, and not a continuation of those in several other places around the district, excellent as they are. But we don’t have an option for that, for reasons explained. Accordingly, my vote has to include the walrus.

These two wishes are not mutually exclusive.

Mark my words, this will not be the last mural commissioned in Forest Hill.

I’ve registered a vote by accident. I was only trying to enlarge the image.

I kind of like the Walrus version but I have reservations about the fact that the grey body doesn’t stand out enough from the brickwork; and I think the traffic pollution will lose even more definition. So would some sort of outline around the Walrus work perhaps?

@Anotherjohn This isn’t the finished design. Just a quick photoshop job for illustration.

Also - as Chris noted above, you can change your vote if desired. If the results are showing, click “Hide results”

…then choose your desired option

Thank you both.

“I have reservations about the fact that the grey body doesn’t stand out enough from the brickwork; and I think the traffic pollution will lose even more definition. So would some sort of outline around the Walrus work perhaps?”

i agree, and am thinking lighting here, crowdfunder stretch target maybe?

I like the sign with walrus but I feel that with walrus, the sign itself ‘announcing’ Forest Hill will end up looking quite a lot smaller than other locations with similar signage and with the text ‘squashed’ (as @anon22025233 observes that it is above). It could result in it looking ‘lost’ on that wall.

I love the fact that the FH sign could possibly be slightly different to all other SE London signs.

It might just be me but I think FH is kinda special & would love our sign to have a Forest Hill Community edge to it.

The issue of differentiation is important - it may even be at the core of our individual identities and our community’s essence.

But avoiding falling in to the trap of one-up-man-ship is also key to being neighbourly.

Catford has distinguished itself - its approach has been unique - it has done the bridge - and then some - by extending their mural to incorporate the butterflies and galloping greyhounds.

New mock-up from @Lionel:

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I’m a fan!

Love it!!

Me too!

There should be a walrus included to make us a little bit different from everyone else. I love the new mockup with the sign straight and the tusks hanging over. SO please to see this happening at last. I read it was turned down originally by the bridge owners some time ago.

That’s the difference an artist makes!

Is it worth updating the main post with the mock-up @Lionel has provided, as my crude mock-up clearly doesn’t do justice to what he can do for the ‘touch of Walrus’ variant!

Your mock-up is on !

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I love it !!!

I liked your version too. The main reason for the fame of the Horniman Walrus is that it’s not realistic so we can’t have one that’s straight if Blue Planet II

Having said that, Lionel’s looks amazing

I know a walrus cannot be copyrighted - but has a sense check been made with Horniman’s on image rights.

Well, now, the Horniman Walrus is only unrealistic in his overstuffing. He still looks like a walrus, especially his head, because that’s what he is.

@anon5422159 Is there any way to pin the poll separate from this discussion? I keep scrolling back to see where we are at!

Yes, me too! I did consider closing the poll to replies for that very reason, but I’m glad I didn’t as the conversation has been great. We could split the conversation into a separate topic maybe?

On the other hand, there is a handy shortcut that scrolls you to the first post:

Tap here:

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…and then here:

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…and you’re there. Alternatively, from the front page, tap here:

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Thanks for that reminder - handy for when I’m on my laptop. On my iPad on iPhone I have been tapping the top of the screen to go to the top of the page, but on long threads it takes several taps to get back to the top.

EDIT: On my iPad at the moment and tapping the topic title in the top banner takes me straight there. Tapping the post numbers beside a post does nothing. (Feel free to split this to a Site Feedback thread)

It’s a fair question but I think @HornimanMuseum is broadly supportive of the content of @Armadillo/@Lionel’s design:

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Thanks - I was just trying to work out how to link to that tweet on here from my phone - go #TeamWalrus!

We are the Walrus goo goo ge joob

Love a good choon.

https://se23.life/t/whats-your-favourite-choon/5493/63

Fantastic! Changed my mind now!

Yes! I really like this. I think including the walrus is a great idea as it is so unique to the area but am concerned about it being too childish.

All very exciting

Childish is good.

There are no image rights in the UK. Third party trademarks will not be an issue for many reasons.

Copyright may vest in the walrus image that Lionel sampled part of, however, I doubt that part sampled constitutes a substantial part of the original image so this is likely not an issue. Further, the final hand drawn walrus aspect of the mural will likely differ from the walrus image so it is even less likely that third party copyright will vest in the walrus aspect in the final mural.

I have learned something today - thank you.

Is that why our multi-millionaire footballers take their monies from “image rights” offshore in their tax avoidance schemes ?

Friendly nudge to reply as new linked topic to help keep this topic on-topic. Discussing general tax policy is a #lounge or @general_politics discussion

Love the walrus but so far looks better with the sign horizontal. Would also be good to vote on which walrus design is used.

hi all,

how was this advertised.

i am a resident of forest hill for over 30 years and a working mural artist.

is there time to add some ideas or a design as forest hill is a unique area and should have its own mural. not another railway sign like all the others.

thanks all

James

Hi James. We first started discussing the mural 18 months ago and spread the word to our several thousand local Facebook and Twitter followers, who, in turn, spread the word to their friends. We have reached out specifically to local artists in Havelock Walk, and also those responsible for other murals in Forest Hill.

Apologies that we did not reach out personally to you during our call for designs. I’m glad you’ve got in touch since then and sorry that this happened after the deadline in our call for designs.

Rest assured there will be other murals that we commission in the area and we intend to be as inclusive and innovative as possible with other sites. There are also other groups, such as the Forest Hill Society, who have the capability and willingness to organise projects like this.

If you can spare the time, I would appreciate your help in reaching out to more local mural artists in future projects to ensure everyone gets a fair shot.

i have painted murals in forest hill before the walrus opposite the old bank and the aquarium.
i was also involved in the subway graffiti project back in 1997.

it would be great to be involved in the future.
maybe have it more as a collaboration other then individual artists.

Absolutely. I’ve added you to the @FH_Mural group to ensure you’re notified personally of any future discussions on this forum regarding new murals.

I’d also recommend clicking here: #street-art (to see our discussion topics about street art), where you can subscribe by clicking here:

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…and then here:

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Very nice!! Like watercolours…

Not many takers then…?

At the moment we’re just an online forum and our resources are fairly limited (I run SE23.life in my spare time alongside a day job in the city, and our four moderators are also all busy people)

Having said that, we are making more connections every day, and growing our reach - so next time we’ll be more inclusive, and based on yours and @James_Titchner’s feedback I’ll make sure we put posters up (with council permission) to advertise the next call for artists.

Nope, not this time - on this site (the railway underpass), perhaps other artists wanted to support a continuation of Lionel’s great vintage murals that have become a South London hallmark?

It will be great to have something eye-catching and fresh to see there

I love the work of Survival Techniques, supermundane and Bread Collective and think their style would go down a treat in Forest Hill or Honor Oak, if any of them (or you) are willing.

Here are some of the sites we’re pondering: Sites for Future Street Art (this is a “wiki-topic,” editable by all established members of the forum)

This round of voting is now closed, with the ‘touch of Walrus’ option the clear winner.

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The next round of voting to decide the orientation and colour of the traditional part of the design is now open at [Poll] Forest Hill Mural - Choose a Design (Round 2)