The Deterioration of Bell Green Sainsbury’s

Does anyone else find that this much-used supermarket is poorly managed and chronically under staffed? I pop in there almost every evening after work and the place is a mess/joke. There’s often long queues at the self-service because they turn-off half of the units because there’s only one person working/helping customers. The men’s toilets stink and are often damaged and their cantilever roof oversailing the cashpoints leaks in several places whenever there’s heavy rainfall. I’d be happier if Tesco aquired the site. I can’t be the only one who’s noticed this.

My daughter has a friend who works there & she has said they have cut all night staff, which I’ve got to say is very visible as the shelves are never filled in the mornings.
The forest hill Sainsbury’s is better than it used to be because of a new manager, who I have spoken to & he said he is getting more staff in during the day to stack the shelves. The manager they used to have was extremely rude. So maybe that’s what the savacentre needs,…a new manager

Is this thread about the Bell Green Sainsbury’s?

yes, it was rebranded as a Sainsbury’s in 2005.

Yes then. This store is the worst.

A while back I complained that at busy times the queues for the self-service were long, but only half the tills were opened. I complained via the website and it was all handled well until the response was basically that they had checked with the store manager and all the self-serve tills are in service at busy times - which was exactly not my experience. I complained a bit more, but basically was told the store manager says there isn’t a problem so I must be wrong.

It certainly feels unloved to me these days - the roof at the front has been leaking for a couple of years now.

I had hoped that with the internal rejig, putting in the sushi counter and Argos, that the rest of the store (and the car park) would have a bit of a refresh, but it just feels like a cash cow being milked these days.

They, the hapless staff manning the self-service, always claim that the consoles are broken; but I get the impression that they’re switched-off to manage the flow of customers needing assistance/authorisation when buying alcohol because they haven’t got the staff to manage it.

I believe the rule is that there needs to be 1 staff member for each 8 self-serve till in operation. So if they don’t have enough staff they can’t/shouldn’t turn all the tills on.

Aptly, The Google suggested this article to me today:

It’s a bit mean, but funny in places. Certainly it doesn’t make me think the author is a very nice person, or that the staff he describes have a very good ethos.

I usually visit on weekends and I remember reading this thread a few weeks ago thinking “it can’t be that bad” - but I was in there last night around 7pm and everything on this thread is so true. Terrible experience on a weekday evening. I don’t understand why all of a sudden half the self service machines are out of service in the week (but fine at weekends) and they can’t open more checkouts / restock the shelves during the day (solve the problem rather than taking it).

It’s when it’s so busy and you hear them desperately announce on the tannoy “all checkout trained staff to the tills please” that you know it’s gone wrong and you are in for a wait.

I guess they are short staffed. Perhaps they should raise the wages a bit?

I’m still surprised that head office can’t see stats like till utilisation and throughput and figure there’s a problem (i.e. not all tills open and 100% utilisation of the ones that are open) and send in some better management to trouble shoot the situation.

I’d not been in for ages and went in Sat morning to acquire some bbq beverages. I was not sure what to expect after this thread, but for me it had improved from my last visit. All tills and selfsevice counters appeared open, it was reasonably quick to use self-service and get the drinks approved. I did not realise they had an in-house sushi area now also so sampled some of that which was nice. I realise it’s not some of the times mentioned above but my experience was a good one, during what must be one of those busiest times.

I’ve often found supermarkets struggle during that in-between period and you can often get a worse service when it’s just under peak time.I hope the store improves for those that have not had a great time in there, or speak with your feet as they say.

I agree with all these points. Sainsbury’s should certainly care more - I understand that Bell Green is its most profitable store in London…

Agree it’s been going downhill in the last few years. Recently I was shocked by the empty shelves and deterioration (aside from the new Argos and overpriced sushi areas).

When I first read this thread I disagreed, but hadn’t been there for a few months. On my last 2 visits the queues have been long enough to put me off the store (not at busy times, just very few checkouts open). Tonight they had one till open, all self checkouts closed and at least 9 people in the queue (I couldn’t see where it ended).

Hope it improves soon. I tweeted sainsburys this thread.

I’ve noticed longer queues than usual in the past week. This afternoon at about 2pm the queues were a minimum of three people per till. BUT almost every till was open. I wonder if the new concessions are driving in more customers than expected.

The problem appears to be too much demand as there are long queues even with every checkout open. The closure of the main supermarket in the centre of Sydenham probably helped this success. Perhaps the only answer is to knock down the gas works and build a few additional supermarkets and massive car parks.

The problem is still bad management. They could easily add more checkouts if over demand is the problem - they add some tills at Christmas already for example.

It’s an interesting thought though, that if Sainsbury’s can’t meet the local demand, competition should move in. I would have hoped that would be a strong motivating factor for Sainsbury’s to pull it’s socks up.

By the way if you are crazy enough to visit early on Sunday just after it opens, you will see huuuge queues and empty checkouts. One Sunday they actually had all the self-serve tills open too, but only one poor staff member helping there. She was rushed off her feet and it quickly went into meltdown.

They do? Where? I’ve never noticed. Like physically wheel in more tills?

Yep - they put 6 little tills with people on the end of where the big self serve area is. It worked quite well if you just had a basket of stuff you wanted to quickly purchase - especially if there is booze or eggnog that needs approving!

I guess the playground could be turned into a car park too. That way everyone can have the maximum choice of supermarkets all in one place.

If children want to play they can use all the empty shops on the high street.

Or perhaps it would be better to spread out our shopping options to high street locations rather than forcing everybody to shop at strip malls.

Who is forced to shop at strip malls and how?

If strip malls are allowed, and people choose to use them over the high street, and shops empty out on the high street, then it implies only that people had a free choice and they chose strip malls.

Conversely, if strip malls are blocked from being developed (your point about “spreading out shopping options”), we’re forcing everybody to shop in the high street.

As much as I have a romantic notion of the high street and a great love for our unique and independent shops, I don’t think we should fight the tide here.

Some things (like white goods, for example) are better purchased from strip malls with warehouse stores and accessible parking space.

I’d put it out there that the weekly grocery shop is also better done from a strip mall warehouse-sized hypermarket.

But if I want something specialist ie traditional sweet shop, or a decent coffee, I’d prefer the high street.

Both the high street and strip malls can exist and serve different needs. Neither needs to present an existential threat to the other. But they will if we start intervening via planning on ideological grounds (ie “I don’t like strip malls”), or if we start to shoehorn the wrong sort of business into the high street (ie Dominos delivery hub on Honor Oak Park).

I use the Dulwich Sainsbury’s as it’s a lot easier to get to on public transport from FH than waiting all day for a 356 to go down Perry Vale and they seem to have enough staff to man the tills and self checkouts, even if the store is smaller than Bell Green.

Bell Green is a victim of it’s own success, while Forest Hill is fine for a small shop, but impossible for me to do a full shop there.

I live between the Bell Green and Penge Sainsbury’s - I much prefer the latter, it’s not too huge and seems to have enough choice for my family’s grocery needs.

And Penge also has an Argos in that store too.

It is the rule of the majority. If footfall declines dramatically in high streets ‘everybody’ loses the local shops that rely on shoppers popping in while doing their general grocery shopping.

I’m not an advocate for twee little villages as the only possible shopping experience, and I like to visit Bell Green Sainsbury’s (as well as Lidl and Waitrose when I’m in the area), but more often I will visit the supermarkets that I can walk to in the town centre and pop into one of the independent shops or farmers’ market at the same time, when I get the chance.

When you look at plenty of villages in France, they lost all their shops long ago and don’t even have a boulangerie. And in many Norfolk villages, village life doesn’t exist because even the pubs have closed - everybody goes to the Hypermarches and without any footfall in the villages nothing happens and communities and services suffer.

My fear is that with Sainsbury and Aldi in Bell Green the main supermarket in Sydenham will remain under-utilised and choice will be limited in the town centre. This could easily impact on the future footfall to Billings, Fresh and Fruity and all the other shops that rely on people doing their shopping in the town centre.

People don’t choose to lose their local shops, it is just something that happens with the consolidation of shopping centres and strip malls. Shopping in Bromley is good, but you won’t find any independent shops on the High Street or the shopping centre - just chains that are failing to compete with the internet.

With the closure of Barclays, Santander, The Hill, Hamiltons, and a few others, we have a lot of empty properties in Forest Hill. As each closes the prospects for the remaining businesses reduces just a little bit further. This is why the government policy recognises that the first place to increase grocery retailing is in existing town centres rather than out of town shopping centres.

And that’s without considering that Bell Green cannot take much more traffic at peak times, even with a SCOOT system in operation.

So does Bell Green!

It was utter chaos in the Bell Green Sainsbury’s this afternoon. Bakery closed (it was closed on Friday too), hot food counter closed, shelves woefully under stocked, queues five-deep and more for the tills. I’ve copied the link to this thread in a complaint to Sainsbury’s.

Yup. Was in there at around one thirty and it was chaos. Didn’t even know where the self-service queue began.

How was the roof managing after this morning’s heavy rain?

Probably using the run-off to feed the cisterns in the men’s toilets.

Why are you continuing to go there? You have choices.

I don’t continue to go there I now choose do my regular shop in M&S in Tunbridge Wells. The above tweet isn’t mine.

That thread is huge and should make sobering reading for Sainsbury’s central management. I can’t believe how rapid the deterioration has been.

It’s not just Bell Green - I’ve noticed how Forest Hill Sainsbury’s is less reliable in terms of items being restocked, although the staff are great and they are able to manage queues much better. The restocking problem is especially noticeable in the mornings so it does seem as if they have stopped restocking overnight.

My main issue with supermarkets generally in SE23 and the surrounding area is that there isn’t much choice - the 3 big supermarkets locally are all Sainsbury’s.

Nest time you shop there, check the back of your receipt for a ‘Lettuce-know’ link. Whatever feedback you give goes not only to the store manager but to the area manager too. Apparently it’s a new system so hopefully the feedback will land somewhere useful.

Bring on the Aldi.

I don’t normally go to Bell Green as without a car it’s a pain waiting for the rare 356. I only go when I need something unusual, as the choice is wider than in FH.

But I’ve been disappointed at the diminution of choice and slow restocking at the FH Sainsbury’s as well. Sainsbury’s needs to deal with this.

Yeah, echoing all this. It’s got very poor, very quickly. Still, at least we can get sushi now

yeah I notice this too, especially on a Sunday the shelves can be very bare, and quite often they’ll go weeks without things I’d consider normal like an aubergine or courgette. Staff are good there mind, I don’t blame them

Hmmm… Yes and no. Overall they aren’t responsible for the running of the store but the ones manning the self-service chechouts are often slow, sullen and unhelpful.

I agree, the Bell Green Sainsbury’s has been noticeably worse over the past couple of months. The queues have been very bad lately and I generally shop weekday afternoons so they shouldn’t be that bad.

Items are often not in stock.

The herbs & spices shelf is bizarre - for the past few weeks there’s been a shelf piled high with packs of jars and you have to root through them to find the one you want as they’ve not bothered to restock the shelf properly.

The trolleys are not returned to store and are left in the car park, until there’s a long line of trolleys that you have to drive around.

I don’t bother taking my kids to the cafe anymore as the last two times was told there was a 45 minute wait for food.

I don’t blame the staff in-store as they seem to be doing as best they can. I can only guess it is reductions in staff numbers, poor management, or both.

I go to that store as it’s convenient to get everything in one place but I am seriously considering going elsewhere now.

I can’t speak for everyone here but they’ve got me by the bollocks and I’m guessing they know it along with so many like me: Single, professional or trades (I’m trade) focusing on their jobs, etc. There’s no way I’m getting off the train at Lewisham to shop in Tesco and then carry all my shopping down to Lower Sydenham on the 181 after a day’s work.

Just thought I’d mention the stress free and smooth trip to Sainsbury’s I had on Sunday. Busier than usual, but I put that down to being a Sunday (I usually go Monday evenings when I know it will be quiet). Didn’t witness any of the the above mentioned issues. I’ll keep going back.

Let’s hope the prospect of Aldi opening a store on the Toys ‘R’ Us site will force Sainsbury’s to up its game.

Just shop online! Ocado is much cheaper than Sainsbury or Tesco. You are not tempted by store displays so will spend less. It is environmentally friendly; just one van on the road instead of twenty cars going to the supermarket. The quality of fresh food is extremely high.

Normally pop in to Bell Green to stock up for a few days and find it hassle free usually

I’m within easy walking distance of Sainsbury’s though, and our household schedule tends to vary so being able to pop in there is much easier than having to plan in advance and shop online! Plus walking to the shops is even more environmentally friendly

I use Ocado a fair amount but the main advantage of the big Sainsburys for me is that they have so much of the fresh produce loose. I often want to buy one carrot, one leek or one pepper or something like that for a recipe and with Ocado I always have to buy more than I want, and get it in plastic packaging.

There are far, far fewer of the tempting ‘offers’ than there used to be in the big supermarkets. No BOGOFFs or similar, just temporary price promotions on some items. So there is less chance these days of coming out of Sainsburys with far more than you intended.

I have given up on Forest Hill and Bell Green Sainsbury’s and now go to the Penge branch. They seem to have far more choice in fresh produce, meat, bread, herbs and spices and loads more. Not so much in the frozen meat section but that doesn’t bother me. Free parking and the staff are always very pleasant too.

The NewsShopper just covered it, featuring comments by @RachaelDunlop:

Interesting theory. Short-term manipulation of profitability is commonplace when it comes to mergers and acquisitions. In one of my former employers it was painfully obvious to everyone.

I visited the New Cross Sainsbury’s this morning, purely as I was in the area. I’ve got to say it is really nice in there. Much much better than the last time I went in there, (which was a few years ago) the Cafe has been refurbed completely, the toilets are spotless & smell nice. It just looked as though it had had a complete makeover.
Where my daughter lives in Crayford they have a new Sainsbury’s, complete with an upper tier & the Sainsbury’s at Vauxhall is the same, so maybe they will do the same to the Savacentre, (fingers crossed)

Hanlon’s Razor would suggest it is more likely to be incompetence than malice. Of course, once the store is an underperforming mess, other management may come to the conclusion that redevelopment is the best option - even if it’s not!

Any idea add to why the previous store manager left?

Not being a car owner i find Bell Green Sainsbury’s pretty much unusable before i even go inside.

If i need a big shop I go to Sainsbury’s on Dog Kennel Hill, which is more convenient as i kive on the 185 and 176 bus routes.

Dog Kennel Hill Sainsbury’s is well stocked and pretty well run.

I use that Sainsbury’s too. Smaller than Bell Green, but a decent range of stock and well run.

It’s always been terrible in the 15 years I’ve lived near there. The shelves are bare or the aisles are littered with gigantic trolleys of stock just sitting there unshelved. The staff on the customer service desk will just ignore you for as long as possible and then when finally dealing with your issue don’t even make eye contact. The deli/fish/hot/pizza counters are usually closed in the evening. Self service checkouts are 50% out of service and then they let people wheel trolleys through there. I live 100 yards as the crow flies from this awful supermarket but still prefer driving over to Elmers End Tesco so there’s a chance they’ll have the stuff that I need to buy.

GillB I’m with you! Was just about to post the same. New Cross Sainsburys is great - husband and I often walk the hour from our house for exercise on a weekend day, do a big shop and come back on the bus (or taxi if feeling super lazy/have too much stuff). Much nicer experience than either FH or Bell Green and much better choice of ingredients, including things like daikon/mooli and huge bunches of fresh coriander much cheaper than FH.

I went to the Elmers End Tesco the other day - much better for those with vehicles.

The pots are store ordered, olives by an ordering system. The pots have multiple uses hence being store ordered. This doesn’t excuse running out but it does happen. If you have the time, mention it to a member of staff and I’m sure they will offer you an alternative or goodwill gesture.

https://twitter.com/se23nic/status/1051186942694572033?s=21

Useless. Citing one-off incidents to explain ongoing problems is bullshit. The stock problems predate the recent store reorganisation by a long time. Nowhere in the letter do they address the general lack of cleanliness.

Agreed. Nor do they say anything about the leaks in the roof and general deterioration / apparent neglect of the building itself. I’ve never seen anyone there on the shop floor who looks like a manager. The most senior team members always seem to be the checkout supervisors.

News Shopper have written it up again too:

It’s more lazy journalism, but at least sightly raises the profile.

Noticed an employee giving about 6/7 other people an induction of some kind today around the shop floor; hopefully this is a small sign that things are slowly moving in the right direction.

The management speak response was not particularly convincing.

Vermin control was treated in the passing almost.

Here is a demonstration of ratters - the type of exercise that is effective and perhaps needs to be conducted a few times a year in the environs of the entire retail park.

I have left the link in parenthesis as its an 18+ watch for those sensitive to the sight of rats and their culling and therefore you can elect as to whether you want to view it or not. The language is not too strong.

“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ObTlVOU-QM”

The area around the clothing etc recycling bin has always, always been full for as long as I remember. They could be emptied a lot quicker than they are! The recycling bins at Forest Hill had to be taken away because of fly tipping. But there is no excuse for the toilets. As I said before the facilities in New Cross are exemplary. It’s strange that the toilets in Forest Hill are more not up to scratch, than are! I think they have struggled (don’t know if they still do, with drug addicts going in there. I have complained to Sainsbury’s head office before (can’t remember why) & as above you get a standard answer. I suppose you could say that is all they can do, but actions do speak louder than words…

I’ve never seen rats in the actual store itself, just in the shrubbery surrounding the carpark. Pretty sure that even Bell Green Sainsbury’s would shut the store if the alarm was raised by customers.

The author of the response letter refers to traps being present under aisle shelf units. An explicit recognition on Sainsbury’s part that there is an in-store problem.

Realistically it is impossible to prevent a rat infestation in the environs from being present within the store itself.

I see no proposal to close the store even with this in-house acknowledgement that there are rats present. Some comedic member of staff or customer had placed a wind-up toy rat in the vegetable area last Friday.

Even more comically those of us who have been around a little longer will remember that that the store suffered from a long term infestation of wild birds that pooped everywhere, including on uncovered fresh food.

It took an extended period of time before this problem was resolved (I suspect by extreme measures including shooting the birds) and once more with no hint that the management considered store closure. It was a considerable time before we resumed buying fresh food under those circumstances.

That’s not quite right is it? The letter does not give any information about rats in THIS store, merely talking about pest boxes in some of their stores. They might even place boxes without evidence of pests being a problem at that time.

If rats have been seen in the store I hope someone has reported it to Lewisham Environmental Health.

Beige

Quite happy to accept that interpretation and would not dispute that point too strongly.

But interestingly the author also committed to referring the issue of pest boxes being visible to the manager of this store - but fair’s fair.

But the presence of rats in the stores surrounds increase the probability of there being some rats in the store.

Apart from the wind-up toy from last Friday I am happy to confirm I have not seen a rat inside the store.

That is a scary story to be spreading. If there is a possibility of rats then I’m going nowhere near but surely if they are suspected it’s got to be a concern that health & safety are aware of?

They have an excellent Diwali section right now:

IMG_20181102_1732502592×4608 3.28 MB

I love a good Diwali Chorizo… dear oh dear!

Fairly common practise in Bell Green Sainsburys. Here’s a photo from last year from the Hallal section wishing everybody a happy passover. There is no kosher food there, they just like wishing Muslim customers happy Jewish festivals.
This pattern of behaviour is either pretty ignorant or trying so hard to be deliberately offensive to their customers.

FB_IMG_15412341843961152×2048 291 KB

Thank heavens Aldi are hoping to open up nearby

My complaints about that store are different: badly stocked shelves, far too much packaging. I nearly filled my rubbish bin with all the packaging last week. Most of it unnecessary. When you can find staff they’re usually friendly and helpful.

I wish they would improve the toilets. I try not to use them if possible. This afternoon for example: one toilet broken, in the next toilet the loo roll holder was hanging off the wall, there was paper on the floor, floor was dirty. The rubbish bin is filthy and looks like it’s never been cleaned.

The Grauniad has a piece that describes the problem as being nationwide within Sainsburys and not just isolated to Bell Green.

Sainsbury’s has admitted staff cuts led to gaps on its shelves over the summer as it ran out of stock, but the supermarket’s boss has promised stores are now back to normal.

Not sure I see evidence of the normality that the CEO alludes to.

I read that article too.

It’s a bit silly really - Sainsbury’s sacked ‘thousands’ of managers, then found it couldn’t, er, manage.

I’m not sure if that’s supposed to be an appology or a cry for help! I am sure it greatly reduced staff costs and makes the merger/acquisition easier - if it is allowed to go through.

Something i’ve noticed recently is that Sainsbury’s cashpoints don’t give accurate bank balances. I don’t know if theres a difference based on how much you’ve got in your account, but I checked my online account before taking money out of the wall at Sainsbury’s and they [Sainsbury’s] reckon I had £50 more than I have in my account.

I’m not sure if it’s relevant, but the amount displayed may be either a balance or money available, which may include an amount greater than the balance that your bank will let you go overdrawn by.

If it’s clearly labelled balance online and on the machine then that is strange.

I visited Bell Green last Friday & thought it had greatly improved, or is it because I haven’t been for a while

Probably warrants a split topic, but I’ve been having major (first world) grief at the FH Sainsburys lately. The vegetable section chronically has useful produce missing… loose veg like mushrooms, potatoes, aubergines etc. Bananas either raw or knackered. I managed to accidentally pick up a rotten onion after fishing in the crates for something of a reasonable size.

There are a few lovely members of staff there, but there are some contrasting personalities there who just aren’t interested in helping. I even had my builder manage to pick up a DPD parcel from their kiosk… without showing any ID.

I’ve lived here for 5 years and can’t remember it being so hit and miss. Maybe this is a general problem affecting all of Sainsburys’ stores. My ex worked at another branch for a year or so and said that the management generally is pretty demoralising.

Yes, I’ve noticed this too. Produce and cheese departments now sporadic in what they contain. Worrying, as there aren’t a lot of other options.

I agree with you. I worked there as a student more than 15 years ago for 10 years, when I then became a manager before moving on. Now when you ask some staff where things are, they just say they don’t know. They always run out of essentials and regularly stop stocking items. It’s also so easy to see when they put up their prices. The phone at customer services often rings off the hook, and there’s 3 or 4 staff stood together just chatting daily as well. The managers seem oblivious, stacking shelves when they’d be better placed supervising staff. I’ve had to get a manager to open up more tills before. Despite this there are some lovely, helpful and loyal staff who still work there from when I did, and the store would be worse off without them. I do hope it improves though as with bell green also being hit and miss, plus the problems I’ve had with home delivery, it’s a wonder I still use Sainsbury’s, but I do because it’s convenient for me.

I strongly agree with your concerns. There have been numerous problems of late at Sainsbury’s FH. The fresh fruit and veg is chronically under stocked and the cash point is frequently broken, I may have been unlucky the other day but the store didn’t feel clean. Some fridges appeared to be leaking and there were large black marks on the floor throughout with seemingly no attempts to clean it. In certain parts my shoes were actually sticking to it.

It may be controversial but I wouldn’t mind another Aldi which I could walk to. The new one at Bell Green is a bit far with bags of shopping.

I noticed a curious little section of BBQ lighters and accessories down at the front near the large self serve tills today.

I’m not sure why they decided to put that out given the recent snow and all…

Stock up while you can - before the end of March. It might be the only way to roast the acorns you find in the woods.

Surely you mean the Forest

Today I spotted they are promoting devices to scan while you shop “to save time at checkouts”. No doubt this will mean even fewer checkouts and more people struggling with uncooperative/temperamental slef check outs.

Hi @Billie. We have a topic discussing this here: SmartShop coming to Bell Green Sainsbury's on 20th Feb

Many thanks Chris.