What else do Forest Hill and Honor Oak need? [2017]

Continuing @starman’s popular conversation from 2016, we had plenty of suggestions for new shops in the area (summarised in the poll below)

Vote for the ones that would get your business (you can vote for more than one option), and feel free to reply with new suggestions.

We got lucky with a few of these ideas - 2016 delivered some great new shops.

I wonder whether some of the mini marts on HOP high street, who are now competing with Sainsburys, would consider converting into specialised Asian/Indian supermarkets (given how popular this option is in the poll)?

If they provided the ingredients, recipes and maybe some home made made pastes/sauces I think it would be a big success

Surprised that “a working cinema” isn’t one option…

I think this should be added for peeps to share responses.

@anon5422159 can you add this to the poll mate

Once a poll has been started it can’t be edited I’m afraid (the forum software prevents it) - this is deliberate, as poll options added later would be visible for less time than other options, making poll results inaccurate.

We can, of course, re-run polls at regular intervals, with all options from previous polls, plus any suggested in the replies.

And in the meantime let’s use “likes” to show how popular the suggestions in the replies are.

To be clear to people who say ‘Why is there no…?’ it’s because this is the list of suggestions made on a similar thread last year that got so long we decided to start another for 2017. Add to the wish list by commenting on the thread.

@anon5422159 - can people vote for more than one thing?

Yes they can. Have clarified this in the original post.

Why is there no Waitrose or Aldi?

While that list may have been relevant in 2016, in 2017 we have a fishmonger/greengrocer, and Vietnamese restaurant. And it is pretty clear that some of the options with no votes are worth removing from the 2017 list.

I don’t think 2017 will be an easy year for new start ups on the high street, but we have seen success after success and I think that 2017 is the year of the bakery/patisserie (or at least it should be!).

Yes I did ponder excluding these. But in 2016 we had several men’s barbers on the high street, yet it got requested anyway (perhaps for want of a choice of barbers?)

I’d love to see a choice of Vietnamese food. We have Vietnamese baguettes in 2017, but what about a more formal restaurant too?

That list is just a way of letting people know what was suggested in 2016 on the old thread that had got really long. It saves people scrolling through a very long thread. Aldi and Waitrose aren’t on that list because they weren’t suggested on that original thread.

I agree it’s confusing to include businesses that have opened on a poll asking what people would like to see. I don’t think it can be edited now, though.

It was also supposed to be a bit of fun and as such should be treated as fun.

No millenials!

In 2017, Millennials will be up to 37 years of age, so I suggest that we already have shops in Forest Hill to cater for the older generational group: charity shops.

Twice in the last week I’ve had to pick up a undelivered package from the Royal Mail office at the back of FH Industrial Estate. Then continue onto the shops on Dartmouth Road. So…

Can we get a handy pedestrian bridge to connect the FH Industrial Estate and Bird in Hand Passage? Please?

Actually in all seriousness a railway crossing that is accessible to wheelchairs, mothers with prams etc. really is a big need I think. The pedestrian route along the south circular is both rather inconvenient and also not particularly safe for wheelchair users and people with small children.

A footbridge from Perry Vale over the railway is something that has been discussed often on local forums over the years and I believe FHSoc have and continue to keep it on their ‘wish list’. I assume it’s quite a big project though. If I remember correctly, some of the land that would be requisitioned belongs to Network Rail. When the refurbishment around Sydenham Station was done I heard there were all sorts of problems with getting Newwork Rail to sign off on things in a timely fashion. It took months just to get the public toilet reinstated.

Meanwhile, has the German Bridge had its promised refurbishment yet? The last time I used it, iit didn’t feel safe at all.

According to this we need more cafes and better shops!

Any article that describes ED as ‘über-cool’ is highly suspect in my opinion. Five years ago, maybe.

Oi, I will have you know that as someone over the age of 37 I have grasped the digital age with both hands and order a lovely array of grey slippers and warm coats from The Telegraph Magazine online!

But you should see the view from Canonbury Road…
Personally I think Canonbie Rise is better.

East Dulwich has never been Uber cool even 5+ years ago, theses estate agent driven articles always make me chuckle

Michael, where is Canonbie Rise ?

A French type patisserie would be top of my list

A proper Japanese Kaiten (conveyor belt) restaurant. I promise I will go there every night.

Just a reminder to everybody that this is the new name for Canonbie Road, otherwise i might look particularly silly.
Or should i use the excuse that i was just testing?
Which is more credible?

An AUTHENTIC American Diner!

And I know just the place if anyone wants to do it

Not just run of the mill, but original recipes.

Would cost a lot for a chef, but I think it would rake it in & have peeps coming from all over if it was done properly.

And would probably benefit all other local businesses too.

If I had a spare 50+k I would definitely sink it into this, Oh well a girl can dream

I still want a proper greengrocers with more than just basic fruit and veg, with a wide range of fresh produce and fresh herbs. Left one behind in north London and still missing it.

Ditto that, I loved my local international grocer shop in archway, the nearest I’ve seen around here is in Sydenham

Otto correct, huh?

Agreed.

I think Honor Oak could do with its own thread. Or rather perhaps this should be about Forest Hill as most of it is.

Also, @anon5422159, tried to reply to this last week but was unable to do so on ipad (ios 10.2). The “quote” function seems to be broken. As is the automatic refresh I think. Please don’t look at this until your return though.

Waters Fishmonger is heading that way and there is also the farmers’ market at Horniman every Saturday. And although I remember a time when there were three greengrocers in Forest Hill, I don’t think there is enough demand for three independent greengrocers today.

However, I think that a ‘local international grocer shop’ would be great in Forest Hill - and I would put it right where Paddy Power is

Appletree, myself & Zoe from @TheArchieParker run FH Food Assembly.

You can have a look at our producers here https://thefoodassembly.com/en/assemblies/49

That’s a good idea. In fact this topic (and its predecessor) have both been lively, so definite worth running the next surveys separately for Honor Oak and Forest Hill. I’m thinking of re-running them every quarter to include new suggestions in the polls and create a fresh conversation.

4 posts were split to a new topic: Quote function unreliable

After a couple of recent visits, a better operating Post Office. It is filthy, confusing as to what window does what task, and takes frankly forever.

If you dont like it now then never ever go there just before Christmas.

Which Post Office are you talking about? I use the FH one regularly and have no complaints. What does bother me is that all the Post Office counters were required to fit out a private meeting room, presumably for offering financial advice, which are never used. So all the counter service has been crammed into half the space they used to have and they have barely any room at all for all the paperwork they have, let alone the parcels etc they take in.

Are you talking about the one in HOP?

Just reporting back, I’ve heard that what was “Kids on the Hill” is now becoming another hairdressers/beauty place as is “The Montage” as I mentioned before…

Do we really need anymore?

The only one I do love and find a bit different is @Lsboudoir as it’s a one off and does skin mapping & all sorts of treatments you wouldn’t find anywhere else.

Apart from Lorna’s (who I know is quite specialised) I don’t really know how they can all get enough custom

Sorry. FH one in the WH Smith by station. Perhaps its the times I go but I wait long times. Which of the 2 or 3 kiosks to use can be difficult to determine, and the place is a mess. Behind the glass and in the shop.

It IS a mess behind the counter, I’ve noticed that too, but I don’t know if the staff can do much about that, it’s so cramped. The shop floor is responsibility of WH Smith. I sometimes have to wait five- ten minutes at lunchtime, which doesn’t seem unreasonable.

I’m not sure what you mean by not knowing which kiosk to use? They are all the same, unless you are getting foreign currency in which case you use the one on the left. It’s clearly signed.

Just don’t get the unhappy lady.

Your absolutely right @Pauline A skin specialist which I am is completely different to a beautician or salon.

we have a few salons on Dartmouth road, so I’ve ensured I’m completely different and not treading on anyone’s toes.

For me I’m a skin Therapy Clinic, and these new business will be salons and hairdressers so although I dont initially see them as threats, having so many might take away the real experience of a professional treatment and can lead to inexpensive treatments being given to potential customers.

Alternatively making my spealised treatment prices questioned?

I don’t think you will have a problem Lorna as your treatments are far superior to anything else in the area & a real spa experience in my opinion

Big Grin

must look at @LsBoudoir offerings in more detail

I love a good self-indulgent pampering…

I’m desperate for a local shop that sells posh stuff (like the spar in Brockley) plus decent fruit and veg and meats and cheeses. Used to live in Bethnal Green and there was an amazing shop called Simply Fresh where you could buy at least three kinds of organic artichokes but also a ginsters and a multipack of salt and vinegar squares and huge bunches of parsley. Mem, the owner, has opened up another branch so I’m really hoping he’ll start one South East. Oh, and it never seemed to close.

Not quite local but I quite like SMBS Foods at 75 Lordship Lane in East Dulwich… a quick 10 minute trip by bus. A few doors down is the wonderful Cheese Block with about 200 different cheese. But yes. I’d prefer them to be here in Forest Hill.

An SMBS type shop would do very well in Honor Oak IMO (or Forest Hill for that matter). No direct equivalent locally in Honor Oak but there is the Forest Hill Road supermarket. Budgens in Crofton Park have an amazing range generally but their veg selection is not so good.

Am afraid am not so enamoured with the Cheese Block though. Have wanted to like it but have found the service to be unfriendly. Jones in Crofton Park has a limited but very well curated selection of cheese.

Aga’s deli has some delicious cheese (some of the best Gorgonzola i have had, aged Comte and others). And 10% off with your friends of Forest Hill Library card.
Never had a problem with the Cheese Block but not been there for a while.

What a shame. I’ve had great cheesy discussions with them, but I do note they can be a bit gruff when busy. More of a “whadya want”.

I would love a softplay centre. Sure we don’t have to travel too far to Crystal Palace but it would be good to have a soft play/imagination centre.

On cold evenings like this, I would like a closer convenience shop. There are units available on Waldram Park Road (South Circular) opposite Sunderland Road if anyone is interested.

I’m sure you know, but you have Gambados Beckenham, Bellingham Leisure Centre softplay ansd in the Deptford soft play nearby also, but yes nothing in SE23 I am aware of.

I say either a working cinema or a decent supermarket.

There’s a fantastic new baker called Christopher’s in Half Moon Lane (North Dulwich end). The bread is produced throughout the day, so often one or two kinds are still warm from the oven. I asked them if they could please consider opening another shop, in Forest Hill. The business is still quite new, however, so they’re too busy currently to consider expanding.

“We make our bread throughout the day rather than through the night in contrast to many other bakeries. We do this for a few reasons, that it provides our customers with fresher bread that has not been waiting overnight for delivery and provides in our view a better quality of life for our bakers. The inevitable downside however is that we do not have fully stocked shelves first thing in the morning as most of our bread is brought out fresh and often still warm from the oven. The only exceptions being bread made predominantly from rye flour which is better eaten the next day and beyond as they have pronounced longevity, and our 100% wholemeal which has similar qualities.”

http://www.christophersbakery.co.uk/

One thing I’d love to see in HOP is a food place that sold healthy homemade ready meals for two that I could pick up on my commute home and chuck in the oven or microwave.

Offer a choice of three different meals, and vary the menu each day. Put today’s menu on Twitter so I know in advance what’s on offer. Emphasis on “freshly-made,” with quality ingredients, preferably sourced from other local shops e.g. @WatersSE23. Offer the occasional “guest appearance” by @FowlMouths, @Saigon_Streat, if possible.

Sainsburies ready meals get boring, and also there isn’t a great choice. And they’re probably not made with the best ingredients, and have been sitting on a shelf for days.

I think a shop specialising in quality ready-prepared cook-at-home meals might do well, with the right branding and meal choices.

I’d DEFINITELY be up for @Saigon_Streat takeaways

Something similar to COOK at West Dulwich perhaps, although they do deliver to SE23.

I’ll agree with you on that, @anon5422159

The deli does this I think.

The Provender? It’s always closed by the time I get back from work

Click and Collect lockers in Forest Hill centre would be useful. There is a set in the BP Garage further along the South Circular but a more central location (such as in Sainsbury’s) would be very convenient.

Try checking with Le Querce. They have started selling food to cook at home, e.g. fresh pasta and sauce, as well as ready made takeaway from their restaurant menu.

Not ready made, not local but delivered to your door and easy to make, Gousto. Used many times and very good.

Good suggestions @Brett and @Londondrz. I’d forgotten about Le Querce’s “eat at home” option. This is their menu:

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Given they have a 48 hour order time, I think there still may be room for the casual pop-in shop I described earlier.

And as @Londondrz mentioned, Gousto (and also HelloFresh) are both great for convenience and inspiration. I amassed a whole book of recipe cards from using both services. Started feeling guilty about all the packaging though - a huge amount of card and plastic in each delivery (especially on all the tiny single-use portions of herbs and spices).

Same thing went through my mind @anon5422159 but I found we were able to recycle 99% of the Gousto packaging. The wool currently insulates our hallway floor

Agreed but that is why I also mentioned that they do takeaway from the restaurant too. That could be done on impulse.

I’m a massive hello fresh fan, I was really wary about the packaging but I find I am not buying food that i then throw away now so I feel better about it.

How about a really great second hand book shop. One of my favourite places to spend 20 minutes in London is Book Mongers on Coldharbour Lane, Brixton. I used to pop in frequently on visits to the Ritzy and seldom did I leave empty handed.

Since moving to FH I don’t visit Brixton that often and I miss my visits to this amazing shop. Would love a similar one in the hood.

You could try Rye Books on Upland Road, East Dulwich

And downstairs at Kirkdale Books, Sydenham.

Fantastic. Thanks.

Yeah I’m never sure what time they are open until but they definitely do what you want, although not cheap. Also they sell sausages etc from the Proud Sow now.

Back in the mid-80s Sugar Mountain was a secondhand bookshop.

My hubby would love a Bodeans-at the moment we trot over to Balham or Clapham. And I’d love to get one before east Dulwich does…

That just fits me down to a T Mr. I get through 2 or 3 books a week & love the history of my shop

That’s another thread though on shops history, but I know most of mine boss from you & Steve Grindlay

On another note a bookshop would be fab & might be coming. So thoughts please?

And seriously

What if this said “Book Shop” secondhand or other gave all profits to the library?

Good thing!

I think so

Afraid East Dulwich already has The Flying Pig which is a Bodeans-equivalent. It is good and well worth a visit, excellent beers on tap and great BBQ.

Leave Bodeans to Clapham and Soho (and other locations). How about a proper US-style BBQ joint with open fire pits and their own smoke houses. I want me some brisket sold by the kilo.

If Pauline and her friends get on with it your wish may be granted!!

They have changed their menu recently (new management!?) and it isn’t so good - beer is still fine though.

How would this work in London with the clean air zones - it is something I have been thinking about for a while.

You can still have an open pit with commercial ventilation. Neil Rankins new restaurant Temper in Soho does this for instance.

Probably in the same way that a BBQ works because that is all it is plus a little wood smoke.

I would love to see a florist in Forest Hill. Even a weekend pop-up would be nice.

LAURELS on Dartmouth Road.

AGAIN I’m asking - possible bookshop & vinyl record shop with profits going to the library?

Thoughts please!

Would you use it?

Books yes. Vinyl no.

Thanks for the response Jason xx

Have you tried Charlie Bighams fresh take-away meals from Sainsbury’s and all good other supermarkets? The best ingredients and all his meals must be oven cooked only. All around £7.00, and serves two, but once you’ve tasted them your’ll never go back to the others. He wanted to create take-away meals to taste as good as restaurant food and he’s succeeded. Large assortment from macaronI cheese to lasagne, moussaka and a curry. Very fresh top quality ingredients. Cheap at the price considering they’re for two at such good quality. Check out all his dishes.

I wish Forest Hill had a small market selling good quality fruit and veg and cheeses, oh and that hot roast hog etc. How about a market in David’s Road, behind Sainsbury’s? Perfect place for a small street market, although road would need to be pedestrianised. Similar to North Cross Rd food market on Saturdays in Dulwich.

The pies are delicious!

There used to be a farmers market at the station on a Saturday but the Horniman opened its market so it died.

Yes well since the Horniman market lost its anchor veg stall it is diminished somewhat in my view. Sadly.

I have, and they’re lovely. My “posh ready meal shop” idea might be a non-starter, on reflection.

Agreed. Love the pies. The only problem is everything of theirs comes in packs of two. A bit of a nuisance for a family of three.

What else does Forest Hill need? A really good charity shop that specialises in books and vinyl records.

Oh, wait!

Leaf and groove will hopefully open soon. They raised the funds through space hive recently

Leaf and groove will hopefully open soon. Check their website out

Yep was on here and saw the poll and knew Blackbird from their great sites in West Norwood + Balham. Thought I would link the poll and them up by the power of twitter. Plenty of bakeries in Balham but they are the best with the best community spirt, with the later seemingly very strong in FH. Good to see the info posted on here also. Impressed by the active FH social media presence and activity. #wandojcf1978onthetwittersphere

Yes they sure will be

There’s a thread on here about the Spacehive crowdfunder

Can you get a white loaf for under £3?

Hi Blackbird Bakery

What size does the premises need to be?
Will it have retail space as well as bakery?
What user-class?
Rent or buy?

I dont think blackbird bakery is on the forum. You have to tweet them.

Sorry about that.

Not necessarily … let’s see if they come join us:

Thanks Michael, but this is the only social network that I subscribe to.
It’s not important though - it’s just that if I knew their requirements I’d keep my ear to the ground for the because I believe that a good bakery would be an asset to the town.

Oh, thanks Chris!

I see what you did there.

I thought the yellow home store was up for sale, plenty of space for shop/bakery/caffe restaurant

Hey dude, I’ll get on the case boss xx

AND YES A BAKERY WOULD BE ANAZING, I’ll mail you in morn Mr Man xx

Saw that too

Nice one Chris

The empty bakery in Perry Vale would be wonderful if it were up and running again, giving that area a real village feel.

Amen to that - while it was open it was great to have but it shut pretty quickly.

There have been two or three bakeries there over the years, as I recall.

What else does Forest Hill need? I came up with a slightly strange answer the other day when I went to Beckenham to buy something for our goldfish pond. (They are just goldfish - nothing as posh as koi carp.)

A lot of the discussion here about what Forest Hill needs has been based on the things that surrounding areas have that we don’t.

But I think one thing that would help is if Forest Hill had more shops that the surrounding areas don’t have. For example: like I say, I was in Beckenham buying pond stuff from a specialist retailer. On the way I passed a shop selling ballet outfits and shoes (we were customers, years ago). Penge has a fishing tackle shop. Dulwich has Bell’s Kitchens. Sydenham has that great bookshop at Kirkdale.

The trick is to find those things that people would have to come to Forest Hill to get. Nope, I’ve no idea either. But there are no doubt plenty of retail brains on this forum who might have some ideas.

A condomerie?

Didn’t we have one of those about 10 years ago on Dartmouth Road? It didn’t last long.

I think the problem with hyper-specialised shops is that shopping on the internet is too easy. It is far easier for me to search for a specialised lightbulb or toilet seat online than it is to go to shops across South East London in search of the part.

That’s why the fishing tackle business on Dartmouth Road is purely online.

Up to a point. For clothing (eg, ballet stuff), trying it on is probably necessary and part of the excitement for the little dancers. You can’t buy goldfish online or ask about pumps or get pond plants on line. The Kirkdale bookshop works because you can browse more easily than on the internet (see what I did there?). Bell’s Kitchens presumably survives because of its service.

So there are certainly shops - and it depends how you define ‘hyper-specialist’ - that can survive and, by the looks of them, do well.

We have a fishing tackle business in Dartmouth Road??? That’s probably what I’d call hyper-specialist, whereas the shop in Penge sells rods, reels, etc. Again, stuff you want to get the feel of, talk about with the expert shopkeeper, etc.

This recent discussion also led me to ask what does Forest Hill and Honor Oak already have? In other words what could attract people to the area. Some have already suggested with a second craft beer shop, we could be the craft beer destination in SE London.

Well we have some pretty interesting second-hand, retro antique type places. In Forest Hill there is Farr & Wyde and Wild Horses. In Honor Oak there is the fabulous Muck N Brass. And if we could extend our catchment area to the end of Dartmouth Road there is Mabel’s (fabulous) Five and Dime along with Behind the Boxes and Dulwich Reclamation.

It seems the area could also be a great place for retro hounds like me. Much better than Crystal Palace IMHO

I’m now in email contact with Blackbird Bakery & have gave a couple of suggestions & contacts, so they join our merry gang soon!

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Re. Charlie Bigham’s fresh take away, oven only, meals. You can now buy them in Aldi for £3.99 rather £7.50, but under another name. Exactly the same distinguished cane-like basket etc. I’ve tried the Lasange and cottage pie, delicious. They only have a small collection of three or four of his meals, another one has sausage in it, although I haven’t tried that yet. I will contact Aldi’s and ask them to do his moussaka and macaroni cheese. It’s nice to grab a bargin.

I’m feeling a quality Mediterranean restaurant. Maybe something similar to Havet in Bromley?

Though I hate the term Mediterranean Restaurant, try Hattush (really Turkish). I suppose you should try Le Querce too (really Sardinian).

There’s one thing we don’t need and that’s a fried chicken shop, which luckily we don’t have in HOP parade.

Actually, the chicken from Ferfect Chicken is great, their ribs are stunning. We went there after a last SE23 get together and the general consensus was one of surprise as to how good it was.

Wot you got against fried chicken?

Id love one ysing better ingredients and a buttermilk batter. Mmmmm.

Morley’s on Brockley Rise also great - nice spicy seasoned wings and juicy pieces of chicken.

Perfect to nip across the road during pints at Chandos and chow down on some greasy wings.

I’d happily embrace a KFC or Chicken Cottage opening in SE23. A Southern branch of StickyWings would be grand.

Continues:

What does SE23 need now? [2018 edition]

What else do Forest Hill and Honor Oak need? [2020]